Hypothetical Question--VINs

[ZephyrEFI]

So, I saw a question on FB a while ago and it got me to thinking. This guy was having trouble registering his low mile Fairmont in Indiana, I think it was. I believe the problem was that the car had not been registered in too long a time or something. So, I said, why not buy a parts car and slap its VIN in the good car and go! Well, that's a felony.

So, here's my question. I mean, I understand why swapping VINs is wrong, if we're talking about two bone-stock cars. You can make it seem like you're selling something you're not. BUT, if you look at today's world where there are cars like mine where the VIN actually tells you practically nothing about what you're getting. It's barely even a Mercury Zephyr at this point. And what if you have a guy who has a rusted out hulk of a '67 Mustang notchback who wants to build it, but the body is not worth saving. So, he buys a Dynacorn '67 fastback body (might as well go for the gusto), and builds that. He puts all new suspension, interior and drivetrain in it. Brand new stuff, not a VIN to be found on any of it. Barely uses a single bolt from his notchback. Can he use that VIN? If not, what does he do?

And if he CAN use the VIN, how is that different from taking an easily registered VIN and putting it into a different car that ISN'T easily registered? Say he then builds the Fairmont such that the VIN means very little anyway? What's the protocol? Here in Minnesota, it must be easier than Indiana, my brother once had to have a VIN assigned to his race car he built because it had been apart, bought & sold so many times no one knew what the VIN was, and it was nowhere to be found on the car.

Just a thought that's going through my head. I have no plans to do anything like this, but it IS my dream to build myself a brand new '69 Mach 1 some day.

[FoxChassis]

The only way it is "legal" to swap a VIN is if the part you are swapping has the VIN on it and you are replacing that part, and it must be done under the direction of your state 'authority'.

In the case of an aftermarket body that doesn't come with a VIN, either you get a state-issued ID from your state authority if you're building it yourself or whomever built it for you gets it from the state authority.

[gregpro50]

Don't mess with the VIN. There are title services out there that you can use to register the vehicle. I've used http://www.its-titles.com/ several times with good results. It will cost a few hundred though.

You'll find the whole VIN thing to be a gray area where even the authorities enforcing it aren't sure of the protocol. You just don't want to come down on the wrong side of the law because the penalties are hefty. I got tangled up in the mess years ago with the authorities because I didn't understand the law.

[xctasy]

In New Zealand, it's the same thing. We love unique VIN codes and hidden build sheets, frame horn numbers and buck tags, because they were never a part of 1925 to 2003 assembeld local cars, and it made it darned easy to rip off vehicles, especially US V8 powered Holdens, Chryslers and Fords.

After 1993, it became a technical felony offence, but it has still been done, because the term "felony" is sadly more a New World United Federation American legal term, done away with in the Commonwealth in three saw cuts from 19870, 1967 and 2006, and no longer a Westminster/Blackstone parliamentary system term the founding fathers and the USA still espouses today.

My old 58 PA Vauxhall, I still have the chassis tags and number plate and registration details, and I could knock up are replacement "Dupe" easy as. It got written off by the last owner in 2003 at a five road intersection, whammo.

That US system allows a whole body rejunivation, but its about reworking the existing car around an unchanged core VIN/Frame Horn/ Buck tag combo, not subbing in VIN/Frame Horns or Buck Tags. The mature and smart CARB/Burea of Verifications Permisable Engine upgrades and the delicate tension between duplicate title and vehicle modifications has been protected in Federal and State law many times, much to hot rodders disgust.

Boyd Cadington is not here any longer to defend himself, but the beloved biker Jessie James is, and let me tell you, you can regigg an old Model T, or A or 32-34 V8 or Indian bike, but you cannot ever weld in or restamp to "become" an new vehicle renewed.

At least you guys are smart enough to take 'em to court, and make sure a felony is a felony.

[sowaxeman]

Its not a problem in Indiana to register a lapsed vehicle, its just additional COST the owner may be looking to avoid. If the car's registration was expired in Indiana and he has been the owner all along, then in order to re-register it he would have to pay for all the lapsed years as well...that could get rather expensive. I would guess that to be the same in all/most states?

If he purchased the car from another owner in Indiana and it had a clear title, then it wouldn't matter. He pays for a new registration without all the lapsed fees. If he purchased the car from out of state, it also wouldn't matter but he would have to take it to the BMV for a VIN inspection, or have a police officer do it at his place and fill out the form....easy process that I have done several times. Indiana will also consider it a Mileage Exempt car, unless he can work with the previous owner and fill out an Actual Mileage Form to go along with the Title when registering. I did this with all of my cars when I purchased them.

[erratic50]

Best thing in most states is for the seller to file an affidavit of storage to get the [over 5 years] it sat written off then tag the car.

Then you can sign over the title and notorize the bill of sale. Seller gets a refund on his tags all are happy.

Ive had to fight with this crap before. Lesson is have clear title in your name BEFORE you spend one second building anything.

[dagenham]

1. Dynacorn bodies are considered replacement bodies just like a replacement fender just on a bigger scale. I personally don't like the whole concept but that's a can worms I won't open here.
2. From the things I hear from different guys around the country I think I'm glad I'm in PA with all my cars. In PA an unregistered car simply gets a new tag and away we go. I have a TBird that I haven't had on the road in years. All I have to do is take the title to the dmv to prove ownership, proof of insurance and I get a new tag.

[Tigger]

Its not a problem in Indiana to register a lapsed vehicle, its just additional COST the owner may be looking to avoid. If the car's registration was expired in Indiana and he has been the owner all along, then in order to re-register it he would have to pay for all the lapsed years as well...that could get rather expensive. I would guess that to be the same in all/most states?

Here in Oregon you do not have to pay for all the lapsed years. At least not right now. The only catch is the month your plates expire. If you register your car the same month the plates expire then you are golden. You will get the full two years for the fee. If you register after then you will loose months. My Saleen sat for the last 5 years till this past summer. I got a temporary tag when I pulled the car out in August because the plates expire in October. In Oregon, the personalized plate registration fee is $100 more than a standard plate car. Had I got the tags in August I would have only had one year and two months for the $186 fee. I ran the temporary for the summer($30). Parked the car when it ran out and got the tags in November so I could get the full two years.

[ZephyrEFI]

So, if I do buy a Dynacorn body and build that, I wonder if I would even be ALLOWED to register it without an existing VIN. Or, if I could just do the same thing my brother did. "Yeah, I lost the VIN... that's it.... " AND would that cost more or less than grabbing myself an unsavable chassis and taking the VIN off that...

Having to pay for all the previous years you missed buying tabs is what kept my brother (yep, same guy) from EVER buying tabs for his 2001 Cobra. He got the first year, obviously, but then never again. He had it for a good 10 years too. I don't even know if that's how it works here in MN. Seems like a pretty unreasonable expectation to me. I guess he did sell it though, so he had to at some point. I should ask him.

Again, this is not happening anytime soon. It's not even on the horizon. It's a pipe dream, really.

[FoxChassis]

Regarding bodies that don't have a VIN to begin with, e.g Dynacorn bodies, the state you live in (MN in your case) will inspect the car and if/when it passes safety and numbers inspection the state issues their own ID for it.

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/dvs/for...alAssembly.pdf

[Bison]

Talking about the replacement bodies, we had a 1987 F-350 that the cab started on fire. My dad went and bought a pulled off cab off a 1991 F-350. When he went to register the truck the county just came out and inspected it and the state sent a little plate with a "VIN" stamped in it, and that's how the state recognizes the truck.

[KevinVarnes]

Having to pay for all the previous years you missed buying tabs is what kept my brother (yep, same guy) from EVER buying tabs for his 2001 Cobra. He got the first year, obviously, but then never again. He had it for a good 10 years too. I don't even know if that's how it works here in MN. Seems like a pretty unreasonable expectation to me. I guess he did sell it though, so he had to at some point. I should ask him.

In Michigan you just pay for the years that the car is registered. I have two cars in my garage that haven't been registered for five years since I am not driving them. When I want to start driving them again I will just go and re-register them and get a new plate and stickers. I don't understand how these states can charge you for time the car was not registered and presumably not driven. Could he register the car in another state and then bring it back to MN to avoid paying all of these back fees?

[ZephyrEFI]

Regarding bodies that don't have a VIN to begin with, e.g Dynacorn bodies, the state you live in (MN in your case) will inspect the car and if/when it passes safety and numbers inspection the state issues their own ID for it.

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/dvs/for...alAssembly.pdf

I don't know how my brother's race car passed that. It didn't have wipers or horn, or a number of other things.