Coolant Overflow Tank filling and overflowing

[emerygt350]

The strange listings for the pumps is due to carbed cars coming with old fashioned belts while the cfi came with serpentine. If I remember correctly in 85 it was a mixed bag? Something like early carbs got pulleys and late got serpentine or something messed up like that. I assume in 86 everything went serpentine.

[85stanggt]

As for the pump being the correct rotation type for your car, you said that the pump you are showing was on for how long?, and it never overheated?
What does that tell you?

The radiator sounds like it is working just fine. If it was bad, it would not even cool when running down the highway. If you ran it longer on the high way than just to work 6 miles away, it will most likely over heat right now. That still tells me head gasket.

As for breaking head bolts when pulling it apart, what did the intake bolts look like that went through the water jacket in the front and rear? If they were rusted away badly, then you might see the same on the bottom row bolts by the threads. If the intake bolt were clean, then the head bolts will be fine. I have never had a head bolt break on any engine i took apart. Only engines that sat in a junk yard that was open the the elements did I ever see anything close to that.

Well that's why I was thinking the old pump wasn't the problem, but man I'm so confused and lost at this point, I have no idea. Maybe putting the restrictor in the heater line changed the dynamics? Who knows.

The driver's rear intake bolt was a bit eaten away. I replaced that one.

Not discounting head gasket. Just need to make sure the pump is right first. The websites are obviously all over the place.

The strange listings for the pumps is due to carbed cars coming with old fashioned belts while the cfi came with serpentine. If I remember correctly in 85 it was a mixed bag? Something like early carbs got pulleys and late got serpentine or something messed up like that. I assume in 86 everything went serpentine.

Huh? Mine is carbed with a serpentine belt. It is a very early '85 built in Nov '84. My rack bushings are '84 rack bushings. Went through a whole ordeal with that where '85 bushings don't fit. The wires are '84 wires with the short coil wire. My dad and I used to have all kinds of issues getting the right wires from the parts stores. I never have these issues with BMW. When they changed parts, they set a date and that's it. Very straightforward. I never get a wrong part for my '98 BMW.

So what's the Ford part number supposed to be for the water pump. It always had an E5ZZ water pump on it from what I remember.

[emerygt350]

Did you drive the car like you are now before it started doing this? I have had situations where fixing one thing exposed a weakness somewhere else. Did you ever do compression tests? This just has the feeling of flow block. If a part of the block or head isnt getting flow, whatever is stuck there would boil etc. And obviously the gaseous form can go wherever it wants.

[emerygt350]

Hmmm... Strange. But with Ford, anything is possible. Let me look up the number I used for mine.

[emerygt350]

The one I got has been fantastic.. FMS-M-8501-C50

I got it from summit.

[85stanggt]

Ford part number E5ZZ-8501-A crosses as Gates 43053 and Airtex AW4035. The AW4035 matches with WP-649, which is reverse rotation.

Can anyone confirm the Ford part number for the water pump? I used to just buy it based on the casting on the old WP until Ford stopped making them.

Edit: is there a part number database somewhere online? for my BMW, there is realOEM.com, which lets me put in the build date of my car and see all of the parts diagrams with part numbers and everything. Is there anything like that for Ford?

[85stanggt]

Did you drive the car like you are now before it started doing this? I have had situations where fixing one thing exposed a weakness somewhere else. Did you ever do compression tests? This just has the feeling of flow block. If a part of the block or head isnt getting flow, whatever is stuck there would boil etc. And obviously the gaseous form can go wherever it wants.

Yes. I drove the thing everywhere. It was my daily until about 2010. I remember driving it up to Gainesville 4.5 hrs without an issue. I do remember it overflowing years ago. My dad told me to change the radiator cap, which I did, and it never did it again.

[85stanggt]

The one I got has been fantastic.. FMS-M-8501-C50

I got it from summit.

That is exactly the pump I would have purchased, but its NLA

[Walking-Tall]

I put the spring in my old lower hose, since the new hose was so tight I couldn't get it in. It fits perfect in the old hose, and I can't squeeze it down any more with my hand. I filled the system back up and left it a little low to run the block test. Before doing that, I could clearly see how much of the level in the radiator drops just revving the engine in neutral. There is a whole lot of fluid flow from that water pump. So much so that I do believe that lower hose could be collapsing.

Block test: it passed that with flying colors. There was absolutely no change in color of the indicating liquid even after running it for 2+ minutes. There was zero oil in the coolant when I drained it and there is no coolant on the dipstick checking the oil. ...

Springs in lower hoses... lower rad hoses without will collapse if the radiator's clogged... otherwise, the whole cooling system, including the lower rad hose, is pressurized sometime when/after it's all up to temperature. Others have suggested it... pressure test the cooling system, with the engine warmed up first with the rad cap off, then pressure test, to rule out or find the head gasket/s being the culprit...

Water and/or water and coolant are heavier than oil. The place you'll see water or coolant, if some is getting into the crankcase, is by removing the oil pan drain plug... the water/coolant, if any, will be what comes out first.

Briefly... there was mention of the system being "open" for some time while work was being done. Have you checked whether something might have crawled in or dislodged loose debris and is blocking or partially blocking that heater core restrictor? Didn't yet go through the whole thread... will continue now. Good luck with it.

[emerygt350]

That sucks. It is a well made pump. Did you pressure test the system? I can't remember at this point...

[Walking-Tall]

Your wasting your time with the antifreeze testing, it's not going to be your problem. You can run straight water and it won't change anything. Actually straight water will work better than antifreeze. Antifreeze is just that, it also helps keep metal from rusting and raises the boiling point. But water alone will cool better. The radiator cap will raise the boiling point of water by pressurizing it. ...

Water pump seals do not like just water in a cooling system.

[85stanggt]

Springs in lower hoses... lower rad hoses without will collapse if the radiator's clogged... otherwise, the whole cooling system, including the lower rad hose, is pressurized sometime when/after it's all up to temperature. Others have suggested it... pressure test the cooling system, with the engine warmed up first with the rad cap off, then pressure test, to rule out or find the head gasket/s being the culprit...

Water and/or water and coolant are heavier than oil. The place you'll see water or coolant, if some is getting into the crankcase, is by removing the oil pan drain plug... the water/coolant, if any, will be what comes out first.

Briefly... there was mention of the system being "open" for some time while work was being done. Have you checked whether something might have crawled in or dislodged loose debris and is blocking or partially blocking that heater core restrictor? Didn't yet go through the whole thread... will continue now. Good luck with it.

There is a spring in my lower hose now. The car has been pressure tested hot. No leak. Pressure tester was left on the radiator while RPMs were held at 2k rpm for 5 min or so. No pressure build up.

The car was open for a while, yes, but it was in my garage the whole time. I doubt anything got in there. That was for the intake gaskets. The heater core I did in 1 night over the weekend

That sucks. It is a well made pump. Did you pressure test the system? I can't remember at this point...

Yep, see right above. Pressure tested at the radiator shop that cleaned out my radiator. They also tested my caps and gave me a new Stant cap that I am running right now just in case.

I'm really really interested to talk to Airtex tomorrow. I don't know what's up with all the different water pump part numbers and carb vs FI, but I think I've had the wrong pump on there before and now. That may be the smoking gun. Need someone to explain the differences between the different belt set ups over time with these cars.

[dynodon64]

Water pump seals do not like just water in a cooling system.

My point was that straight water is the best liquid for cooling. Of course it will cause metals to rust, lack of lubrication, and the problem of freezing. That's way racers run straight water with Red Line water wetter. It helps with rust and lube.

As a foot note, I have an older 302 standard rotation water pump I will pull tomorrow to compare to the one posted earlier.

[ashley roachclip]

My 84 is an 83 build date 5.0 , and has serp. Belt .and reverse rotation water pump .
Tell us about your fan shroud .
Is it intact ?

[Matt J]

One thing you can be sure of is that the restrictor you added to the heater hose isn't the culprit. It just reduces flow volume into the heater core in the instances where you rev the engine and you have the heat on, to prevent sudden pressure slamming into the thing and causing leaks. It won't have any bearing on the overheating problem you're having. It looks like you're ruling a lot out of what it could be, you're almost there.

[gr79]

The type of water pump pulley (smooth or ribbed/grooved) is a give away as to what pump is correct.
The same water pump pulley has been with the car since new.
That is a solid reference part to match a pump with.

Ribbed pump pulley- std rotation
Smooth pump pulley- reverse rotation
V-belt pulley- std rotation.

Post #84 shows a standard rotation version pump.
Means the engine has a grooved pump pulley.

Doubt the heater system has anything to do with overheating.
If anything it helps as a mini-radiator dissipating heat.
Someone i know used the heater once in summer to get home.
Many cars and trucks run fine bypassing heaters.
NASCAR, for one, has rules requiring plain water coolant in case of incident resulting in a track spill.

[85stanggt]

My 84 is an 83 build date 5.0 , and has serp. Belt .and reverse rotation water pump .
Tell us about your fan shroud .
Is it intact ?

My 85 is an 84 build date with serpentine and reverse rotation pulley (smooth pulley). fan shroud is intact.

One thing you can be sure of is that the restrictor you added to the heater hose isn't the culprit. It just reduces flow volume into the heater core in the instances where you rev the engine and you have the heat on, to prevent sudden pressure slamming into the thing and causing leaks. It won't have any bearing on the overheating problem you're having. It looks like you're ruling a lot out of what it could be, you're almost there.

My only thought was that my old pump was the same as the new (now suspected standard rotation pump) and didn't really show any problems. I was thinking that may be that was the case because it didn't have restriction to flow through the heater core before. Just a guess; I have no idea. Just trying to figure out why this started now and not with my old pump.

The type of water pump pulley (smooth or ribbed/grooved) is a give away as to what pump is correct.
The same water pump pulley has been with the car since new.
That is a solid reference part to match a pump with.

Ribbed pump pulley- std rotation
Smooth pump pulley- reverse rotation
V-belt pulley- std rotation.

Post #84 shows a standard rotation version pump.
Means the engine has a grooved pump pulley.

Doubt the heater system has anything to do with overheating.
If anything it helps as a mini-radiator dissipating heat.
Someone i know used the heater once in summer to get home.
Many cars and trucks run fine bypassing heaters.
NASCAR, for one, has rules requiring plain water coolant in case of incident resulting in a track spill.

My car has a smooth pulley for the water pump. The picture I posted in #84 is the pump that came off the car. Ran with that for 10 years. The new one that went on is the same. As you pointed out, it is the wrong rotation. But why wouldn't the old pump have had any problems until now? Meaning, after I did the intake and heater core?

I will call Airtex today for the final verdict.

[emerygt350]

There is always the chance that your new pump has a slightly different impeller design that maybe makes it better in the right direction and worse in reverse, whereas the old one might have just worked well enough either way.

Talk with airtex, but I would still be tempted to try a new radiator first because: 1) it is easy 2) a new radiator isn't a bad thing 3) I am really lazy. Of course you will have to pull the radiator to replace the water pump (or you should) so perhaps it really doesn't save much work.

[JacksAO]

My bet is it's the water pump. I've owned my 85 5.0 GT with factory air since it was new. Over the years I've replaced a few water pumps. In doing so I've found out a few things. 1) ford used a one year only pump in 85 and it had a larger impeller and an additional blade (vane) on it. 2) All of the auto parts stores systems will list just one pump for the 85's which just so happens to "be the correct pump" for just about every reverse rotation small block ford. What I had to do in order to get the correct pump is to remove the rear cover right there in the store and check the over all diameter of the impeller and the number of blades and believe me they were all over the place in sizes and number of blades on the impellers. The only thing that all of those pumps had in common was the part number on the outside of the box. Yes it was a pain in the rear to both me and the store clerks but, I would eventually find the right one.
I usually keep notes on what I do to my Fords because I've owned and worked on them for more years that I can remember and know full well that Ford is very inconsistent in what they do and put on a car as it goes done the assembly line and unfortunately I can't locate my notes on the water pump impeller diameter and blade count. If I can find them I'll post it up here. By the way I've had this car out here in Phoenix Arizona for the past 35 years.

[dynodon64]

Here's a picture of a v belt standard rotation pump. I just pulled it off of my project car. It came off a 70's engine.

[85stanggt]

***Ding Ding*** It's gotta be the WP. Airtex does not list on their website which rotation the AW4024 vs AW4035 is. But I called on the phone and Airtex AW4024 = ASC WP-572 = STANDARD ROTATION pump. The Airtex AW4035 = ASC WP-649 = REVERSE ROTATION. He said on the phone, the only difference is carb vs FI. The FI pumps are reverse rotation, the carb pumps are standard rotation. Have you ever heard of that? Did they change the belt routing on the carb vs FI cars later in 1985???

So I've had a standard rotation pump on my car for over a decade with no obvious complications until I replaced the intake gaskets, heater core, coolant with a Freezetone/Prestone mix, and inserted a heater core restrictor in the inlet heater core line, FWIW. Not sure which of those upset the balance, but it was enough to send me on this 1.5 year wild goose chase.

I will get a new pump with the correct rotation. Any recommendations for certain pumps? Honestly ASC/Airtex makes a good pump, because the one I took off after being on there for 10 years looked perfect. So I may just get the correct rotation one from them.

[85stanggt]

Here's a picture of a v belt standard rotation pump. I just pulled it off of my project car. It came off a 70's engine.

Thank you so much for pulling that. Just further confirmation I have the wrong pump on my car. That is the same impeller that came off the car and I put back on. Yikes.

[qikgts]

From Mr. Cook...

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...verse-rotation

[emerygt350]

From Mr. Cook...

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...verse-rotation

I find that hard to believe since I have seen so many people mention their vbelt mustangs, I know JACook knows all so this comment is surprising and I guess I don't know the reality. Maybe JA is having fun gaslighting us or something.

[emerygt350]

looks like it is either airtex or equivalent now or very expensive stuff.