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  1. #1

    Default Common misunderstood coolant leak explained and fixed with pics...

    Replaced the water pump on my 85 Capri a few weeks back, after a week or so I noticed temp rising to damn near overheated level.

    First thing I check was coolant reservoir... EMPTY.

    Second I looked around the water pump itself nothing, gaskets dry and weep hole dry...

    Upon closer inspection I did notice coolant on top of the timing cover in the little valleys on both sides, as though it had come from the intake, or so I thought... I had replaced the intake manifold a few weeks before the water pump so I checked the corner between heads block and intake... clean and dry...

    Here begins the common misunderstanding of this particular leak... The next obvious location the leak could be coming from would be the timing cover gasket. I figured I probably deserved this since when I changed the water pump, pulling the water pump bolts probably compromised the timing cover gasket (which I did NOT change). My bad oh well.

    This was NOT the case.

    Turns out my Timing cover gasket was fine. What was not fine was the way I had sealed my water pump to the timing cover. As many of you already know, each timing cover is compatible with multiple water pumps. some of those other water pumps (especially v belt or forward rotation pumps) actually utilize 2 extra mounting bolts.

    Those 2 extra mounting bolts fit into 2 holes on the timing cover which were where my leak occurred. I solved this problem with 2 hex plugs and some silicone. I am sure many of you have gotten by just fine without plugging these 2 holes, but I did not. I know from my various searching around the web that many others have been baffled by either this leak or those holes or both.

    My ideal solution would have been to find either a timing cover without those holes or a pump that actually utilized them... Alas I could not find either. I did find a few close but not what I wanted. In the end the hex plugs solved the problem and I am now leak free.

    TLDR If you get a leak and its not what you think, you are not crazy... It may be this


    ALL PHOTOS AT LINK BELOW

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/JqQtuYrTW3EVVibp1
    Last edited by TheCrippler; 12-16-2017 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Link to photo album
    FML. Lets try this one more time.

  2. #2
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    qikgts's Avatar
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    Atta boy! Nice fix!
    '85 GT

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by qikgts View Post
    Atta boy! Nice fix!
    Thanks.

    Foxaholic
    FML. Lets try this one more time.

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    Are there gouges/corroded areas in the water pump mounting surface on that timing cover? Or is that residual gasket material/rtv I'm seeing? Looks like it goes directly from the passage on the right in the picture to the hole, on the left it looks like it extends from the passage up left of the hole you're pointing at.

    Not trying to be a smart alec, I too have had my fun with water pumps that didn't want to seal on these engines, and enough fun with timing covers. It's a bad design, I'd take a small block Chevy water pump replacement any day of the week over a small block Ford if I had the choice.

    Cale

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by cb84capri View Post
    Are there gouges/corroded areas in the water pump mounting surface on that timing cover? Or is that residual gasket material/rtv I'm seeing? Looks like it goes directly from the passage on the right in the picture to the hole, on the left it looks like it extends from the passage up left of the hole you're pointing at.

    Not trying to be a smart alec, I too have had my fun with water pumps that didn't want to seal on these engines, and enough fun with timing covers. It's a bad design, I'd take a small block Chevy water pump replacement any day of the week over a small block Ford if I had the choice.

    Cale
    There definitely is some corrosion pitting there. It doesn't provide a direct open path but definitely contributed to a reduced clamping pressure in that critical area.
    I put a light amount of silicone in to dry before assembly to build it up to the gasket. It was a combination of the corrosion pitting and the unnecessary hole leaving just enough room for coolant to seep out.

    Foxaholic
    FML. Lets try this one more time.

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    Good deal, sounds like you're all set!

    Cale

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by cb84capri View Post
    Good deal, sounds like you're all set!

    Cale
    I hope so... Lol

    Foxaholic
    FML. Lets try this one more time.

  8. #8

    Default

    Nice diag, you just may have shed some light on the same problem I've been chasing for a couple years now. In my situation, it only leaks when it sits for awhile or the weather gets colder, and it seeps on the right side in that timing cover valley. Once it warms up it's fine.

    I have suspected for some time now that the problem was either the cover had some porosity in it or a water pump gasket problem. My 86 only has 19000 miles on it and it has the updated coolant in it when I installed the TrickFlow HCI. I to replaced the timing cover gasket and also the intake gaskets to no avail. Thanks for posting that.

  9. #9

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    Sorry, double post.
    Last edited by gt pony; 12-17-2017 at 02:44 PM. Reason: double post

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gt pony View Post
    Nice diag, you just may have shed some light on the same problem I've been chasing for a couple years now. In my situation, it only leaks when it sits for awhile or the weather gets colder, and it seeps on the right side in that timing cover valley. Once it warms up it's fine.

    I have suspected for some time now that the problem was either the cover had some porosity in it or a water pump gasket problem. My 86 only has 19000 miles on it and it has the updated coolant in it when I installed the TrickFlow HCI. I to replaced the timing cover gasket and also the intake gaskets to no avail. Thanks for posting that.
    No problem man I hope it turns out that's your problem... If you are looking for the plugs they are 5/16-18 thread. I got mine in a 2 pack from home Depot for $1.21.

    Foxaholic
    FML. Lets try this one more time.

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Yep - the problems we put up with sometimes!

    Ive always used a lot of RTV on all mating surfaces as well as the gaskets themselves when I've had to do water pumps. Closely following another thread where that is all discussed.

    I filled those holes with JB weld then wedged in a small screw that's set down flush before too. Can't remember which motor I did it to for sure but I know it held. The crap you do on a daily driver at 11:50pm on a Sunday night in order to get it back together! My luck has always been the dreaded Sunday afternoon breakdown on my daily. Needless drama for sure! At least Autozone has started keeping their hub store open until midnight. It's saved my bacon more than a few times.

    The hex drive plug would work very well I'm sure. Especially if you use a sealing antiseize too if the metals are dissimilar to help prevent a future problem.

    Ive had nicks and corrosion pits in covers a few times over the years. Some 5 minute JB then sanding it smooth with silicon carbide paper on a piece of glass has worked for me in those instances better than chucking it full of RTV and hoping does.

    Anyway - great info. Thanks for reminding us all about this problem and suggesting a solid fix!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrippler View Post
    No problem man I hope it turns out that's your problem... If you are looking for the plugs they are 5/16-18 thread. I got mine in a 2 pack from home Depot for $1.21.

    Foxaholic
    Thanks again man, I'll let you know when I get around to fixing it. Right now it's sitting in the trailer along with the Cobra and I've got a full dance card because of the holidays. I had planned on removing the radiator to paint the side tanks because the old paint is flaking off and I'll have to move some things around in the man cave before I do anything.

  13. #13

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    Crippler -

    Excellent post! I'm looking at this as well. I went through 3 gasket sets last year trying to get this sealed up. Thought it was the gasket between the block and the timing cover since it's such a b***h to replace without the oil pan removed.

    My leak is very small but noticeable when the car is hot and stopped. Distinct coolant smell. I can't see any trace of fluid near the block. Just having to pull the water pump and plug the hole will save a lot of work and an oil change. Many thanks!
    W

    As always, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you, it's what you think you know that just ain't so."

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamCapri View Post
    Crippler -

    Excellent post! I'm looking at this as well. I went through 3 gasket sets last year trying to get this sealed up. Thought it was the gasket between the block and the timing cover since it's such a b***h to replace without the oil pan removed.

    My leak is very small but noticeable when the car is hot and stopped. Distinct coolant smell. I can't see any trace of fluid near the block. Just having to pull the water pump and plug the hole will save a lot of work and an oil change. Many thanks!
    Let me know if this works for you agreed 200% on how crappy it is to change timing cover with pan in place.

    Foxaholic
    FML. Lets try this one more time.

  15. #15

    Default

    Outstanding post, on my 82...I had the same leak until I packed them full of grey silicone. I had several Ford "experts" said that Id done something wrong.....

  16. #16

    Default

    Update.

    Since the weather is finally cooperating I was able to get back in the garage and start on this problem. Again.

    Here is what I was looking at. You can see the coolant in the valley at the top of the timing cover. The streak of reflection above that is a small amount of coolant in the matching valley in the block.

    Name:  TIMING_COVER_1.jpg
Views: 548
Size:  49.4 KB

    Here is a straight on view showing the gasket between the timing cover and the block. A tear that could be letting coolant into the block Valley? Why is there always uncertainty? The tear doesn't go all the way down and the puddle in the timing cover valley never got that deep.

    Name:  TIMING_COVER_2.jpg
Views: 545
Size:  44.4 KB

    Here is the timing cover with the water pump off. The driver side hole was definitely leaking. But I still think I have a problem between the block and the timing cover.

    Name:  TIMING_COVER_3.jpg
Views: 543
Size:  58.8 KB

    Here is the passenger side hole. As best as I could tell it was sealed. But there was a small amount of coolant behind the timing cover block gasket. Maybe from when I pulled the thermostat housing.

    Name:  TIMING_COVER_4.jpg
Views: 538
Size:  37.9 KB

    Anyway, since I was suspicious of the block/timing cover joint on the driver side, I pulled the timing cover. Had to pry on it pretty hard. Figured I'd better check flatness.

    The driver side port is out 0.010" from the rest of the cover. May have happened when I first took it off or one of the other rounds. I'll spend a bit more and get the FMS replacement. Another trip to Summit Racing! Woo Hoo!

    I'm also going to shorten the dowels. They project about 3/8" and make installing the cover a pain, as noted. I'll cut them down to project 3/16" or so. One dowel came out easily. The other took some persuasion. I put a drill bit in the dowel (27/64") clamped it on with visegrips and it twisted right out. Things are ready to go back together once I get parts collected.
    W

    As always, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you, it's what you think you know that just ain't so."

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamCapri View Post
    Update.

    Since the weather is finally cooperating I was able to get back in the garage and start on this problem. Again.

    Here is what I was looking at. You can see the coolant in the valley at the top of the timing cover. The streak of reflection above that is a small amount of coolant in the matching valley in the block.

    Name:  TIMING_COVER_1.jpg
Views: 548
Size:  49.4 KB

    Here is a straight on view showing the gasket between the timing cover and the block. A tear that could be letting coolant into the block Valley? Why is there always uncertainty? The tear doesn't go all the way down and the puddle in the timing cover valley never got that deep.

    Name:  TIMING_COVER_2.jpg
Views: 545
Size:  44.4 KB

    Here is the timing cover with the water pump off. The driver side hole was definitely leaking. But I still think I have a problem between the block and the timing cover.

    Name:  TIMING_COVER_3.jpg
Views: 543
Size:  58.8 KB

    Here is the passenger side hole. As best as I could tell it was sealed. But there was a small amount of coolant behind the timing cover block gasket. Maybe from when I pulled the thermostat housing.

    Name:  TIMING_COVER_4.jpg
Views: 538
Size:  37.9 KB

    Anyway, since I was suspicious of the block/timing cover joint on the driver side, I pulled the timing cover. Had to pry on it pretty hard. Figured I'd better check flatness.

    The driver side port is out 0.010" from the rest of the cover. May have happened when I first took it off or one of the other rounds. I'll spend a bit more and get the FMS replacement. Another trip to Summit Racing! Woo Hoo!

    I'm also going to shorten the dowels. They project about 3/8" and make installing the cover a pain, as noted. I'll cut them down to project 3/16" or so. One dowel came out easily. The other took some persuasion. I put a drill bit in the dowel (27/64") clamped it on with visegrips and it twisted right out. Things are ready to go back together once I get parts collected.
    I had the same issue with my 83 coupe, I discovered that the left front intake manifold gasket was leaking at the coolant port. I pulled intake off, resealed and all has been good since.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    1983 GLX

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