I am changing gears so to speak and going with a 351 windsor swap for my 79 pacecar. How many of you have completed this type of swap and what kind of problems did you run into??
I am changing gears so to speak and going with a 351 windsor swap for my 79 pacecar. How many of you have completed this type of swap and what kind of problems did you run into??
I've done several 9.5" deck engines in fox bodies.. Hood clearance may be your main concern. With proper exhaust it's usually not much of an issue. You're aware of the need for different distributor, intake, exhaust, flywheel etc?
1986 CHP SSP Coupe
Accessories can be an issue too. Not a big deal though. It's been done thousands of times.
Jess
Previously owned;
1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302
I was aware of the headers, oil pan and intake issues. What is the distributor difference?
I plan on using parts from LMR.
Taller deck height means a longer distributor. The same cast/steel gear rule applies depending on if you run a flat tappet or roller cam.
1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.
Imbalance is different 5.0L vs 5.8. The 5.8 uses 28oz imbalance where the 5.0's use 50oz.
For what it's worth convertible mounts lower the motor. Personally I've never seen an EFI 351W fit under a non-cowl hood without solid mounts and body/K member shims.
Afaik the shortest EFI intake setup is the 5.8L GT40 lower or the 5.0L lower with adapter plates and a sheetmetal box upper. The tubular upper and the Cobra being similar in height as well.
To put the problem into perspective, with stock motor mounts a Typhoon EFI on 302 in my 86 hits my stock hood.
Its not impossible to fit a 351W or even a 460 under a stick hood, but just be aware that you are in for a fight to do so.
... Just rechecked 302 and 351W distributors I have here, and distributor lengths are the same. Distance from the oil pump to the upper mount flange on the blocks for the distributor did not change due to deck height differences. The 351W distributor shaft itself is 1/2" in diameter at the bottom as opposed to a 7/16" diameter 302 distributor shaft, and the hex drive shaft that the distributor registers with to drive the oil pump is a 5/16" hex in a Windsor, and a 1/4" hex in the Windsor's smaller SBF siblings. The shaft diameter differences indicate what size inside diameter distributor gear you'll need if you need to exchange it for steel/iron.
Last edited by Walking-Tall; 12-15-2017 at 12:21 AM.
Mike
1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
1983 Mercury Cougar LS
1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
1980 Capri RS Turbo
Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/
Wrong.. Try again.. The diameter of the drive shaft IS larger on the 351w as you stated.. But then THINK about it.. The 302 has a deck height of 8.2".. The 351w has a deck height of 9.5"... HOW could the 351w NOT require a longer shaft to integrate to the drive shaft?
1986 CHP SSP Coupe
"...the upper mount flange on the blocks for the distributor did not change due to deck height differences." COMPARE them beside one another. I just did... hence, I'm not speaking out of my rear end... and you must have Chevrolet on your mind
Where the cylinder decks are has nothing to do with where the distributor mounts in the front of the block.
Some images to view the ONLY block front differences:
302... distributor flange nearly flush with intake end rail...
351W... distributor flange about an inch below intake end rail...
... same vertical distance from timing cover top, etc, etc........ is HOW the two have the same length distributors.
Last edited by Walking-Tall; 12-15-2017 at 01:56 AM.
Mike
1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
1983 Mercury Cougar LS
1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
1980 Capri RS Turbo
Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/
A picture (just taken) speaks a thousand words (any extra length you may be thinking of only exists with about 1/2" extra shaft bottom length on BOTH newer (notably TFI) 302/351W distributors, only constituting extra oil pump shaft engagement, not gear face to block flange length)...
Notice the chart, and the 4.031-4.038" dimension...
Ford Racing gear installation image:
I think that ought to be enough "Try again.." for ya, Sir.
OP, here are the 302/351W distributor differences:
Last edited by Walking-Tall; 12-15-2017 at 03:31 AM.
Mike
1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
1983 Mercury Cougar LS
1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
1980 Capri RS Turbo
Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/
ACTUALLY... a EFI 302 distributor IS the same length as the 351w distributor.. But you'll find a carb'd 302 distributor is shorter..
https://www.google.com/search?q=302+...gY5X2_NuIzlGM:
1986 CHP SSP Coupe
Well that was a good discussion. Thanks for all the info. My pace car already has a fiberglass cowl and a hole in the hood for the 2.3 turbo air cleaner. I did know that the deck hight applies to the cylinder deck height.
So on to the transmission. Looking at a modified T5 from a 302 car. Then there is the question of the bellhousing??.
Thanks for all the info. Staying on the mild side and carbureted so hopefully the hood clearance wont be too much of a problem.
Bellhousing from the 302 will work fine. Same bolt pattern on the 351w.
1986 CHP SSP Coupe
If you can afford it go aftermarket FI. The one that looks like a carb (4 hole). You should get at least the same clearance as a carb. Depending on what air cleaner you use.
Its a whole lot easier to set up and run compared to getting the carb right..
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
Albert Einstein
1984 20th Anniversary GT350
Almost "Stock"
Last edited by Walking-Tall; 12-15-2017 at 07:01 PM.
Mike
1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
1983 Mercury Cougar LS
1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
1980 Capri RS Turbo
Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/
Mike
1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
1983 Mercury Cougar LS
1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
1980 Capri RS Turbo
Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/
As erratic50 mentioned above, there's a 28(.2)oz-in imbalance factor. So, the bell housing with your V8 T5 isn't an issue, but getting a 157-tooth 28.2oz-in imbalance flywheel for the 351W is.
Mike
1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
1983 Mercury Cougar LS
1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
1980 Capri RS Turbo
Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/
Well his 79 pace car would have been carbureted.. With this 302 distributor, that is MUCH shorther than a 351w distributor.. Try a 3rd time?
1986 CHP SSP Coupe
The big, stupid, unnecessary HEI distributor is UNimpressive, BTW. ... and your point is, what? You're not contributing to the learning process here with opinions and beliefs. The IMPORTANT dimension is from the bottom face of the distributor gear to the flange up on the blocks where the distributor bolts down, NOT your BELIEF that deck height differences somehow made the distributor lengths different. THEY ARE NOT, PERIOD. The points that you make agree with what I've said, as to an unnecessary and irrelevant tip extension with TFI distributors onto/over the oil pump drive shaft, with EITHER/BOTH 302 or 351W, which remains irrelevant to this conversation, or any conversation, yet you're still argumentative as if the points differ. Go and troll somebody else somewhere else.
Last edited by Walking-Tall; 12-15-2017 at 09:34 PM.
Mike
1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
1983 Mercury Cougar LS
1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
1980 Capri RS Turbo
Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/
Well, now I'm bedazzled. I was always under the impression 351W distributors were longer, and now I'm just mildly confused. The only added length is in the pump drive?
1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.
Sufficient to say, there MAY be differences. Understand what they may be. Understand which are important ..... and which are not. Get it wrong there will be problems.
Well jackass, do you see the 351w one is longer in the picture? Why so defensive? All you're adding to the conversation is banter and whine. The distributors CAN be different lengths, that is the point and it can cause the drive shaft to not engage which could lock up an engine, another important point.. Cry some more how you weren't exactly right and can't handle it.
1986 CHP SSP Coupe
The distributor doesn't ride in the head, or even the intake. I'd be surprised if there really was a fundamental difference in them. Cosmetically or different lengths, sure, but the camshaft is the same, the timing chain cover is the same, the heads are the same, the lifter holes are the same, why make everything functionally compatible, then make an identical part not work?
I mean, this is a discussion about ford. $10 says the measurement between the drive gear and the oring to seal it is the same. The length after that drives the oil pump could have 2" chopped off and it wouldn't hurt anything.
2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
1 1987 cougar
If the HEI and TFI picture posted above didn't contain two 302 distributors, maybe what the four-flushin' troll is going on about and imagining is an increased 351W-specific length could be seen. It can't, and it, and beliefs are still irrelevant.
*Repeats - the relevant length dimension for ANY 302 or 351W distributor is the same, at 4.031-4.038".
More fun pictures below... the last of them from me, and the last of my further reply within this thread, unless the OP needs further assistance and I am able to provide it.
(Try to pay attention, Ourobos )..............
302 DuraSpark - "short" shaft END:
351W DuraSpark - "short" shaft END:
302 TFI - "long" shaft END:
351W TFI - "long" shaft END:
Good luck with your build, OP.
Mike
1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
1983 Mercury Cougar LS
1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
1980 Capri RS Turbo
Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/
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