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  1. #26
    FEP Senior Member 83gt351w's Avatar
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    It’s not a hard swap at all. The hardest part for me was finding a flywheel for my 5 spd. I found it easier to by an aftermarket accessory set up for the alt, ps, wp, etc. Headers can be expensive, and I’m all for sacrificing hp for shorty headers. If I had the 302, and 351 in my garage and deciding on an engine, I’d never think twice about going with the 351W. Make sure to get the Ford Motorsport pan. With some drop mounts, mine fits under the factory hood just fine. Also, plug the dipstick hole on the timing chain cover or buy a late model one.

  2. #27
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 83gt351w View Post
    With some drop mounts, mine fits under the factory hood just fine.
    I'm wondering... What intake manifold and air cleaner assembly are you using? Does your car have a hood scoop?

    Aftermarket flywheels:

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/f...302b/overview/

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/f...02ab/overview/

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...view/make/ford

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...view/make/ford

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...view/make/ford

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...view/make/ford

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...view/make/ford

    For some reason, Summit's site doesn't show the Ford Performance flywheels when you start narrowing down the search by clicking the boxes for 157 tooth, 28 oz etc. I had to type in Ford Performance Flywheels and scroll through all the offerings to find those two. It was the same way trying to search out a 0 balance Ford Performance flywheel last year for my 347.

    Cale

  3. #28
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    Flywheels are easy.. Just make sure it's 28oz imbalance and 157 tooth to fit the T5 bellhousing.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Manual-Flyw...tRqLbI&vxp=mtr
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  4. #29
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    see below

  5. #30
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 83gt351w View Post
    It’s not a hard swap at all. The hardest part for me was finding a flywheel for my 5 spd. I found it easier to by an aftermarket accessory set up for the alt, ps, wp, etc. Headers can be expensive, and I’m all for sacrificing hp for shorty headers. If I had the 302, and 351 in my garage and deciding on an engine, I’d never think twice about going with the 351W. Make sure to get the Ford Motorsport pan. With some drop mounts, mine fits under the factory hood just fine. Also, plug the dipstick hole on the timing chain cover or buy a late model one.

    Especially with alloy heads. That is the game changer to almost zero the weight increase which is techically 531 pounds without flywheel verses 470 on the Carb 5.0.

    Alloy heads loose 49 pounds generally. 482 pounds undressed is almost 470 pounds.

    Dressed 1992 5.0 EFi is 521 pounds all up, with all accessories. A/C, alternator, power steering and flywheel accessories are about 51 pounds for an automatic

    The 1971 Cleveland 4-bbl is 569 pounds stripped with the 31 pound lighter spreadbore Alloy intake , but the Aussie pillow block with iron intake manifold , very heavy twin piston York A/C and iron, aloy and pressed steel Power steering pump assembly and all ancilaries is 719 pounds, 150 pounds extra than the Boss 351.

    Quote Originally Posted by 83gt351w View Post
    Finally getting some color! Followed the paint directions to a tee, and everything worked out great. Have to figure out how the new brackets will attach, and polish some aluminum, and she'll be close to complete.

    You Fox guys missed out on something every Kiwi or Aussie could have in any big 1976 to 1982 Ford sdean, or 1976 to 1985 Ford truck, a 188 to 216 hp net 4-BBL 302 or 351 Cleveland.



    The normal US price premium occurs for MUCH slower shifting 351 W peformance parts, a victim of Fords 1970 to 1993 Pogom Against the 5.8 Windsor. The Cleveland got all the thunder, and the 351M and 400 weren't ever fotified with a 4-bbl intake, so were just sub 178 to 145 hp net engines.

    Despite the approx 180 hp 1980, approx 164 hp 1981 HO sedan 351W with the hot cam profile,
    the 210hp 1984-1987 HO 4-bbl Truck and Van 5.8, (17" air cleaner which was twin snorkle if you skipped A/C)
    then the F truck and E van 210 hp EFi 1988-1992.

    Nothing Windsor and 5.8 ever got the suds of the hoary old Clevo untill 1995.

    The 240 hp 1993 5.8 Lightening and certainly the brief 300 hp 1995 351 SVT R was the first time the last emission R and Q code 266 hp 351 C 4V was almost ecplised for economy, power, torque and emissions. The Mustang 351 C 4V engines, the R and Q codes, were derated for 1974 Pantera L production, the 266 hp Cobra Jet and HO engine versions weren't emissions compliant for the a certain part of the 1973 model year, and the Pantera version of it lost 18 hp.

    Cost issues of the 351 W swap, see

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...02#post1839902


    You have to be very carefull over the wording of flywheel types, accessory drives, and ask questions on the right parts.

    A 351 Windsor Fox isn't an understeering pig, but it does need some carefull parts choices.

    The factory "proformer" was the 1990 Jack Roush R type development engine, which made 305 hp in its first emissions compliant test capsule, the 1990 Melbourne car show Ford Falcon GT351.



    It was the engine base that the 375 hp twin Turbo 25th Anniversary Mustang was supposed have for mid year 1989. It was such a machine it twisted body shells, but the engine base was sensational, and

  6. #31
    FEP Senior Member 83gt351w's Avatar
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    I have the Performer RPM, and a drop base air cleaner. I’m restoring the duel snorkel now, and believe it will fit.

  7. #32

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    Thanks again for all the info. I work at a NAPA store and we have a machine shop so i am thinking the flywheel wont be an issue. The oil pan and headers i will most probably get from on line.

  8. #33
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    The 351c, no, as the firewall gusset juts out at just the wrong position.

    The taller 351W, it just fits.

    The Box Foxes have a 1" shallower plenum, and a 1" taller, less sloping front. On balance, a 17" air cleaner is pretty much possible, though you might need to put the Dawg on the chain......

    Quote Originally Posted by montstr View Post
    Hello, figured I should say hi eventually, as I've had a Fairmont for about 8 years now, and have browsed occasionally but never became a member. So here I am! I'll start by posting a few pics of the Monster from the last few years, and then I'll head to the Non Mustang section and put the rest of the pics there....if you want to see what I've done, you'll just have to go look! Justin

    Shortly after I got the car. It was a 2.3 3 speed floor shift car, factory buckets and no options at all...I immediately set upon sticking a 351w in it.


    351w with 5.8 4V HO air cleaner.


    SNUG! less than 3/16" clearance, but never touched!
    [IMG]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/cc501/xecute6/IM002504.jpg

  9. #34
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Chaining them down sometimes makes all the difference.

  10. #35
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I have done the 351W swap way back when off the shelf parts were a bit more difficult to find and more $$. Not a bad swap other than the required parts as mentioned above by several members.

    The best advice I can give is that if you are going with the 351W then really go for it an either build a stroker with some major cubic inches, 393/408/427 and/or install Good Quality Aluminum heads, intake, enough cam, and long tube headers. Otherwise you will only make a bit more power than a well built 302 that is slightly heavier and cost you A LOT more $$ to install.

    A plain Jane, semi stock 351W doesn't make that much if any more HP than a slightly tuned 302, but does make more torque. In stock form the 351W doesn't rev as well or as high as the 302. Either go for it with a 351W if you want to build a true street terror or save some time, some $$, and headaches and just build a well thought out 302 or even better a 331/347. The 302 based engine fits better and easier with all the stock parts that cost less and can make easily 300-350 HP depending on cubic inches and how radical you want to go. YES! the 351W can make a lot more, but only if you spend the time building it up rather than just swapping in a truck engine, etc.

    Just my .02 worth and experience. The 351W is a great engine and I love them as I have had several, but again without doing some work and throwing some good parts at them, they are not a Bad A$$ setup originally. Best of Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
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    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
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  11. #36
    FEP Super Member mmb617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post

    The best advice I can give is that if you are going with the 351W then really go for it an either build a stroker with some major cubic inches, 393/408/427 and/or install Good Quality Aluminum heads, intake, enough cam, and long tube headers. Otherwise you will only make a bit more power than a well built 302 that is slightly heavier and cost you A LOT more $$ to install.

    A plain Jane, semi stock 351W doesn't make that much if any more HP than a slightly tuned 302, but does make more torque. In stock form the 351W doesn't rev as well or as high as the 302. Either go for it with a 351W if you want to build a true street terror or save some time, some $$, and headaches and just build a well thought out 302 or even better a 331/347. The 302 based engine fits better and easier with all the stock parts that cost less and can make easily 300-350 HP depending on cubic inches and how radical you want to go. YES! the 351W can make a lot more, but only if you spend the time building it up rather than just swapping in a truck engine, etc.
    Well said. The first paragraph is the whole story in a nutshell.

    Here's my experience that makes me say that. When I was running the brackets every week I blew up my 393 in the middle of the season. I didn't want to miss a lot of races as I was running for points and I didn't have the cash to build another stroker right away. So I bought a stock 351 from the boneyard and put it in my car with the stock heads and cam but with my Vic Jr intake and 750 carb jetted way down.

    Since I was a bracket racer I didn't have to be fast to win and it's a good thing! That motor ran good enough to give me high 13's, which I could have done with a pretty much stock 302, but I already had the car set up for a 351 and I was planning on a 408 going in during the off season. The stock 351 was done by 4500 rpm. I just don't think that stock for stock you gain anywhere near enough with the 351 to make the switch worthwhile. Now if you're going stroker and doing a good heads and cam swap that's a different story.
    408/T5/3.73's

    We're not fast racers, we're more what's known as half fast racers.

  12. #37
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Ford USA did to the 1969 Windsor 351 what it did to the American 1969-1980 250 in line six....absolutely transhed any of the export development upgrades, and then downgraded it from a pure performance engine by saddling it with smaller 302 engines carb, 302 heads and it really became a boat anchor real quick.

    An absolute, anemic boat anchor.

    Nothing on any 1970-1997 USA Windsor 351 or 5.8 liter engine above the block is of any use on any 351 W, not even the stock Lightening EFi intake manifold, upper EFi, or anything made for an F truck or E van. Even GT40 intakes, uppers and 70 mm MAF's, and the 351W Torino cam are just asthamatic choke devices for this engine.

    Even the SVT 351R parts were missing in the power potential a stock 1969 that Shelby had planned to use for the GT350 351 models in 1969.

    Very few US Shelby's were ever sold with 290 hp gross M code equiped with the the over the counter, non emissions approved 4V Buddy Bar intake, the 600 cfm carb, or the wilder 351W 290 degree hydraulic cam.

    Of the 3000 exported 351W 4-bbl engines exported to Australia from 1969 to 1970, only the first 260 GTHO cars after the first few months of the Falcon GT351 were special order 300 hp at 5400 rpm net version. It was smooth, strong, and had a truley elastic top end, which made performance progressive from its 650 rpm idle right up to its 6000 rpm rev limit.




    Even in the 3377 pound 69 Fords, With the Barn Door flat nose Falcon front end, it did 135 mph, made 14.8 second second flat 1/4 miles, .
    0-60 in 6.4 secs, without any tubing headers, no Shaker Scoop, no 1.7:1 rockers, no 750 cfm Autolite 4300D or Holley 3310 780 cfm.

    It would almost eclipse a 3,354 pound, 137 mph, 14.7 sec, 0-60 in 5.9 second 240 hp 5.0 1994 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra

    It almost made the much more aerodynamic 1995 Mustang SVT 351R seam quite lame. Holding the weight down to 3326 pounds and a 0.32 drag factor only added 16 mph to the top speed, took 0.8 seconds off the quarter mile, 1.0 seconds off the 0-60 mph time.

    GT40 uppers and lowers actually throttle any engine back past the 325 hp mark, and even Ford Australia had to update the 347 stroker 5.6 liter shallow deck 5.0 based engine with a Cobra 4.6 80 mm MAF, and Trickflow style upper and lower intake even to get a modest 335 hp and 369 lb-ft of torque. Cams can compensate, and so can proper air fuel mapping, but the can't re-create the sweetness and expansive power band of a long rod 351W 4V with Shelby's optional alloy high riser intake.

    Factory part was #C9OX 9424 A by Buddy Bar





    1966-1969 C 6 0F-9510-N 3557 to C 8 OF-C C 8 OF-9510-C Ford 390 Engine Holley 4 Barrel 4 speed Carburetor



    1968 Holley 4150 list 3795-1 Ford PN C 8 OF 9510 C used in the 69-70 Phase 1 Windsor 351w's





    The emissions engines had an auto choke, and the engine code for AUS cars was K208-SA, and they were VIN'ed as K codes on the Aussie Four door Falcons so equiped. It was an H code US 290hp gross Windsor 351 engine, just like all the other imported 4bbl 351 Windsors found on Fairlanes and GT 351's, but those 260 came with the three bolt ons, the carburettor, camshaft, and alloy inlet manifold.





    Quote Originally Posted by hooniverse-overseas-via-ebay-edition-aussie-gems-of-the-70s
    Now take a look at this 1970 Ford Falcon XW GT. Being a 4-door Muscle Car is unheard of in America, but it was fairly common in Oz. This car has it all, a 351 CID V-8, a top-loader 4-speed manual, with a Ford 9 inch rear end. Finished in a deep shade of green called reef green and gold “Super Roo” stripes, with a flawlwss Black interior
    The way to make any 351W haul ass is to copy that 1969 300 hp GTHO 351W combination....
    1. small chamber 4V Windsor 1969 heads,

    2. 600cfm Holley 4-bbbl Vac Sec carb,

    3. the 1969 Buddy Bar Shelby 4-bbl intake manifold,

    4. the optional over the counter Ford Total Performance 1969 Shelby 290 degree cam,

    5. the factory iron headers,


    and that is 300 hp net right out of the box. A Fox Mustang or Capri has a much better drag factor than a 0.50 cd, 24 square foot frontal area blunt as sin 4 door sedan.

    The 351 W M code HO package was completly forgotten when the 1970 Cleveland engines 4V heads, with a 750-780 cfm Holley Vac Sec made another 50 hp net on that, 350 hp. To do it, it went with the K code 271 HP 289 cam profile on a 351W firing order cam master. Tri-Y headers help get the best out of a wild 310 duration cam.

    The best Windsor 5.0 alloy heads only just beat the best factory 351C 4V heads.

    The parts that are stock 302/5.0, don't ever work well on a proper, aggressive 351 W.

    Carroll Shelby had the Windsor fortified, and all worked out, then Ford decided it needed a Bigger Stick, the 4V HO 351C. The 351C isn't half the engine base the 351W block is; the big valve canted Chevy 396/402/427/454 style heads were never known for smoothness, or an ablity to allow the block, rods and main and rod bearings survive.

    If you want to kill a 351W block, just use canted valve 351C 4V heads.

    If you want a smooth, fast and reliable engine that really spins, use the aftermarket US 5.0 alloy heads, and then go good dual pane 4-bbl, a good carb in the 650 to 780 cfm area, and don't be afraid of some cam duration and lift.

    The only thing holding back a truck 351W block from eating up 351C 4V's and the best alloy headed and cammed up 5.0's is the lack of duration, lift and cylinder head flow from the cam/head/intake combinations everyone uses in US 351W.

    The 265 cfm at 550 thou lift 28"H20 flow figures, and finding a 1.7:1 rocker ratio, Cleveland 4V copy cam is the thing holding the 351W engines back. And the stock 351W pistons, they aren't anywhere near as good as the best Cleveland pistons. So factor in some really good SPS pistons, and a nice plateau honed bore to suit the rings, and have them clearanced for a 6500 rpm rev range. The stock 351W rods prepared well are a lot better than the the Cleveland rods, and the big 3" main bearings just need a little attention to clearances, but the crank and block are a heck of a lot stronger than people give credit.

    Ford USA spoiled everyone for choice. The 390/427/428 FE, 429/460 Lima Big Block, 351C 4V, and then the rejuvinated 1982-1995 5.0, they were the engines Ford loved selling. The 351 W had a 69 flash in the pan, and then became a door stop for the 1977-1996 F and E high GVW behemouths, and anyone can make them holler like an A3 headed Yates NASCAR 351.

    You have to be smart, and read the real truth on what works best.

    A 351W is heaps more responsive to the right gear than the 5.0 is, and potentially a lot more reliable than the much vaunted Boss 351 and GTHO 4V 351C.


    As soon as the Cleveland came out, effective development for the 351W stopped for 26 long years.

    Even the EFi SVT 5.8 is much inferior to an iron headered 69 351W 4V with the right Total Peformance factory parts.

  13. #38
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Sorry about the nasty metrics, but I get really cross that the best US engines were in fact exported to Australia for 500 mile sedan racing cars.


    Its most impressive part is how the 300 hp version pulls so hard from wide open throttle at 60 mph in top at 2700 rpm to over 100 mph in top at 4500 rpm,

    "In top gear it happily pulls like a wooly bull from 2700 rpm all the way up to 100 mph, easy," notes Kevin Bartlett. "I really like the torque curve."
    and its only the extreme bluntness of a huge 74 inch wide, 55 inch tall four door, 3377 pound car that stops it exceeding 135 mph at 6020 rpm. This is in a car which has inferior to Cleveland 2V and 4V 185 cfm at 500 thou lift heads.

    IMHO, In a Fox body, this is the engine to have.


    See https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.a...specifications

    The 290 hp US M code 351w in its first year application (it wasn't a the 250 hp 2v H code)

    It had access to the very best aftermarket parts, but you didn't get them that way factory, except for 260 very rare overseas Falcon 351 Windsor GTHO "Phase 1" four doors equiped with it.

    http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...or-m-code.html
    http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum...ndsor-not.html
    http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/vi...-question.html

    M code cams were http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...7-Cam-for-351w

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/editpost...78&do=editpost
    Just remember, we in Australia/New Zealand got your US model year engines without air pumps, but they were all 100% US sourced, and the Aussies picked the best parts of the USA inventory for 250 to 500 build per year Production Racing specials. I argued that the Windsor was an inferior base when I halped my mate extract 375 hp from his 351C in 1988. 27 years on, and I'm reinfatated with the C9 blocked truck engine.

    With Holley 600 4-bbl, (ex FE 390 C6OF-9510-N List 3557), a 10.7:1 compression ratio, (up from the 10:1 in the US J code 302HP 4V) stock cast headers, the car was rated at 290 Gross at 4800 rpm and 385 lb-ft at 3800 rpm.

    Cam in 1969 XW Falcon GTHO 351 was uprated from this the US C90Z-6250-A cam, with
    256 I/270 E split lobe cam,
    Intake: opens 11* BTDC, closes 65* ABDC
    Exhaust: opens 68* BBDC, closes 22* ATDC
    33* overlap
    Int Dur@.050- 206
    Exh Dur@.050- 221
    Intake Lobe lift .2775
    Exhaust Lobe lift .2825
    Lobe Sep 115

    To this, the US C9-OZ-6250-C cam, with
    Unsplit 290 I/290 E lobe cam,
    Intake: opens 36* BTDC, closes 74* ABDC
    Exhaust: opens 84* BBDC, closes 26* ATDC
    62* overlap
    Int Dur@.050- 218°
    Exh Dur@.050- 218°
    Intake Lobe lift .290
    Exhaust Lobe lift .290
    The most sensational accolade was a 500 and 620 mile Touring Car guy who raced 351 Cleveland and 350 Chevrolet engined two doors at 170 mph at Mount Panorama at Bathurst. He won a wet Bathurst in 1974, and campaigned a mean 430 hp, 3800 pound 1981 Z28 Camaro for three years under Kerry Packers Nine Sport channel. Anyone who does that, has to know about the inner workings of the best Detriot engines at over 6000 rpm for 6 hours of 100 mph average speed laps.

    After peddling the 350 hp and 390 hp 1971 and 1972 development hacks for many laps on a race track, Kevin Bartlett proclaimed that he liked the 1969 300 hp M code based Windsor 351 the best of all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bartlett
    I still love the Phase 1 because I'm a Windsor fan. While the other cars are capable of faster lap times, the Phase 1 endeared itself to me because its such a nice car to drive






  14. #39
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 83gt351w View Post
    I have the Performer RPM, and a drop base air cleaner. I’m restoring the duel snorkel now, and believe it will fit.


    The 12 bolt Edelbrock 7181 Performer RPM looks like a first step to proper air flow.





    The 16 bolt C9OX looked like a restrictive C5 4-bbl with bare minimum changes to get a 4-bbl on a 9.469" deck.

    That C9-OZ-6250-C cam, with Unsplit 290 I/290 E lobe camcam with its duration was probably perfect with 351 cubes.

    The Windsor is far more tractorable than the Cleveland, so any time you use the smaller cc intake runner heads, you have to be more aggressive with aspacts of the cam profile to maximise power production. There was no way Ford was ever going to shell out on a wide awake 5.8...even the 351R was down on what the simplest E303 5.0 4-bbl can make.

    I'm not certain I'd go stroker with a 351w, ever. Not because its a bad idea, but because the low hanging fruit is really a NASCAR spec flat tappet, alloy head, tall block WCP351 engine like they ran from 1987 to 2005.

    The question about Chassis verses Cubic engine capacity is a moot point when you've got a good operator at the wheel, but I sure do like the ability to wack in a 4" stroke crank from a junked 400 Ford, and some 4.9 Ford 6 6.21" con rods with bushes to suit a set of Chevy 383 pistons on 1.26 compression height pins .

    And the 351w has a nicer priority oiling system, and the list goes on.

  15. #40

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    Nothing to be sorry about. If anything, the above can be taken as understatements. The name of the game with a Windsor is ample amounts of compression hand in hand with camshaft duration and also unhindered intake airflow, like anything else, there really is no such thing as too much carburetor. The only danger is resulting in too much horsepower and torque, as well as increased average torque across the board... gee, who would want that?
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  16. #41

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    Personally for anything more than a spirited driver, I wouldn't put any cash into a 302 based motor unless it's something that could be transferred to a 351w, or you plan on a aftermarket 302 sized block. Do the 351w swap with a stockish motor and add you stroker kit later.

    Jess
    Previously owned;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  17. #42
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    I've had great fun with swapping 94 lighting short blocks into fox bodies, adding some good heads, cam and intake and terrorized the streets.

    As mentioned above, 302 parts make 302 power, stock heads on a 351w are making it breathe through a straw.
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ourobos View Post
    I've had great fun with swapping 94 lighting short blocks into fox bodies, adding some good heads, cam and intake and terrorized the streets.

    As mentioned above, 302 parts make 302 power, stock heads on a 351w are making it breathe through a straw.
    What about the gt40 heads on the lightning motors? No good? I ask because I just threw a lightning motor into my fox.

  19. #44
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Fords GT40 non P heads are just as good as the GT40P except for some odd intake to exhast flow features. Above 500 thou lift, they are reputed to be better than GT40P's, and potentially can be an unmatchable economy head that has had a lot of development work done on it. If you know how to hand port and iron head, and you have the templates and time, its a great head. It doesn't crack, and its plentifull. But 335 hp with the right emissions bits is all you can expect with the best factory GT40P head before spending a lot of wasted money on porting.

    To get past the 295 to 325 hp hump, you gotta copy either the 2002 Australian 335 HP 342 stroker, and do some real head port work, or copy the 1994–1999 S351 Saleen.

    the Saleen team brought in the 5.8L V8 used in the 1994 Ford F150 Lighting, adding a number of refinements including high performance, large-valve aluminum Edelbrock heads, hydraulic roller camshaft and lifters, 30 lb/hour fuel injectors and more. The net result was an estimated 371 horsepower and 422 foot-pounds of torque at 3,200 rpm. An optional Vortech supercharger boosted that number even further, to 480 horses.

    1. emissions as a totasl package are not as good due to the old less than ideal spark plug placement that has the plug pointing in the wrong direction to the out going exhaust mix,

    2. the GT40's do have the 1978-1996 EGR Thermactor drillings and the GT40P's don't, so the GT40P's fitted on a GT40 headed base will be dirtier. You can drill the GT40P's for Themactor ports, but its a lot of risky work

    3. port over scavanging (GT40's over scavange due to the exhaust valve size). Ford spent a lot of work making the GT40 suit the Cobra roller camshaft and 351 Lightening engine, Jack Roush had a calibration for the GT40 heads on the 1988 351 engine, which was going to be turboed. So the head is designed to over scavange like a NASCAR head. It favours a different cam profile to a GT40P head, although Ford USA didn't use the modified GT40P cam profiles the Australian 268, 295 and 335 hp net 5.0 and 5.6 engines got.

    3. chamber size (GT40's are the traditional large chamber)
    4. the extra 90 thou bigger exhaust valve size (1.54 vs 1.46 for the GT40P) doesn't help unless your cam, compression and emissions pacakge warrant it.


    Best commment?

    Robert Chandler 4 years ago
    The P's actually flow better due to higher port velocity and higher compression.
    BUT the plug/wire/header issue is too much for some.
    They do well to .500 lift but after that they flatten out (this is why the TFS stage 1 cam is the hot tip for these heads)
    If you can put a set ON THE CAR for less than $400 it is a good bang for buck improvement but if you start porting them and spending money they lose ground to used aluminum heads that can be had for 700-800.
    Both have 1.84" intake valves, but the GT40 has a 1.54" exhaust valve whilst the GT40P cylinder heads have a slightly smaller one at 1.46". Really, when you get down to it, neither head is any measurable difference better than the other
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=126GdxgR5Zg

    You should never believe everything you read on the internet or in videos you may come across. It is extremely important to do your research and to READ a book or two. Case in point from the comment left. The Official Ford Mustang 5.0 book covers 1979 through 1993 mustangs and is a technical reference and performance handbook. Page 51 says the 1985 mustangs came with "E5AE" cylinder Heads. Page 58 says the 1986 mustangs came with "E6AE" cylinder heads and this is the only year with these heads. Page 69 says the 1987-1993 mustangs came with "E7TE" cylinder heads. Early 87 vehicles had "E5TE" casting which later was replaced with "E7TE" castings. Page 114 says the GT-40 heads came on the 1993-1995 mustang cobra models and is distinguished by three vertical ribs cast into the head. The GT 40 and 40p cylinder head was used on other ford vehicles and this book states them all but is to much to type. Page 204 says 1996 and 1997 Explorer and Mercury Mountaineer came with GT-40 cylinder head. The 1997 and a quarter year explorer came with GT-40p cylinder heads here in the USA. Now, who did not do their home work? I did not repeat what someone told me or what I read on a forum. I bought and read the book. I suggest you start with the bible you may learn something then again you will not.
    The heads were used in the Australian 1993 Falcon GT and supported 268 hp (the 93 Cobra Mustangs actual factory rating was about 230 hp net, but 268 net measured in the Australian engine...which is a 100% US made Cleveland engine plant engine re-supplied to Australia by the Windsor, Ontario, Canada engine plant). The heads, either GT40 or GT40P, flow 335 hp easily with just a very basic CNC clean up, better valve springs, and a little planing at the shop to bump the compression ratio up....which all Windsors really, really like.

    The GT40P's existed because Ford had new emissions targets, and the plan was to make them in alloy, so they changed a lot of little things for 1997 model year. Another order existed that the engine be killed off like the Cleveland and M's and 400's were.

  20. #45
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelzfoxes View Post
    What about the gt40 heads on the lightning motors? No good? I ask because I just threw a lightning motor into my fox.
    Definitely better than an E6 or E7 head, but not near the breathing capabilities of the 351w.
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  21. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ourobos View Post
    Definitely better than an E6 or E7 head, but not near the breathing capabilities of the 351w.
    But the 351w head won't have hardened exhaust seats. GT-40p heads make a nice head with a little porting/clean up, and a valve spring upgrade.

    Jess
    Previously owned;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  22. #47

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    I have a 351 in my 82 GT. I used an MSD distributor, MAC swap shorty headers and a Canton pan. Ford Racing sells a nice billet fywheel with removeable weights. Timing cover is a direct swap. Ford Racing sells swap brackets for either AC or just PS that account for the taller deck height. The factory alt bracket works fine since it only attaches to the head. Hood clearance is tight, I have vert motor mounts and a Vic Jr intake. I have a standard 14" round air cleaner with a 3" K&N filter and it fits under the 82 scoop or a Pace car scoop. I am not sure it would fit with a flat hood without a cutout unless you cut out the bracing or put spacers under the K-frame to drop it down an inch. I used SN95 sway bar brackets since the stock ones made the sway bar hit the pan. Good Luck with the swap, youre gonna love the extra torque that the windsor provides right off idle.

    Mike
    Last edited by FoxFords&FFR's; 01-18-2018 at 10:01 PM. Reason: spelling
    1982 GT 351W, retro hyd roller, ported Pro Comp heads, Tremec, M2300K brake kit, Recaros...needs paint!
    1984 LX 5.0 Vert *SOLD*
    1993 Cobra #3971 mostly stock *SOLD*
    1966 FFR Cobra replica 383W, Vic Jr heads, Vortech YS, TFS Box intake, 652rwhp, crazy fast!
    1987 GT in MM&FF May of 97 "Not Fade Away" white and purple. Sold 1999

  23. #48
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang-junky View Post
    But the 351w head won't have hardened exhaust seats. GT-40p heads make a nice head with a little porting/clean up, and a valve spring upgrade.

    Jess
    351w has hardened seats since unleaded gasoline was introduced... an early 70s set will not, correct
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  24. #49

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    Anywhere from 2 to 8 bucks a piece
    Machining and installing... get the right diameter seat cutter counter-bore tool and use your freezer to cold "shrink" the seats for installation, or shop around machine shops...
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 01-19-2018 at 02:42 AM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  25. #50

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    Or, after spending $400 on a set of heads, $200 yet to get them machined, then $200 on springs, you could get some aluminum heads.

    Really, swap in the gt40's. If the head needs machined, go back to a u pull it yard and find some that don't.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

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