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  1. #1
    FEP Member wingnut180's Avatar
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    Default Cast iron block repair?

    Ok. I had a really no good, horrible, nasty, messed up day.

    My car is a 79 hatch that has been efi swapped with an 87 5.0HO. Smog pump is removed and no ac in car. Alt, ps pump and water pump are the only belt driven accessories. Also did the chevy HHR electric fan swap that i learned about here on FEP. I put the car together 6-7 years ago and I've been loving it ever since.

    I was going to fix a very minor coolant leak and ended up cracking a chunk out of the block. Car was leaking from between the timing cover and the block on the passenger side, so i tore it down, replaced timing cover gasket, water pump plate gasket and water pump gasket. When tightening the water pump/ps pump bolts on the drivers side, the long bolt by the water passage was hard to install. I should have stopped and chased out the threads then, but of course i was on a hurry to finish up and tried to torque it down anyway. The threaded hole in the block cracked in half. So my stupidity i think may have caused me a lot of greif again. It looks like there was a bunch of old sealant and grease in the bottom of the hole.

    Does anyone know of a fix for the block that i could do with it in the car? If i have to pull it and strip it down to take it someplace to be welded or brazzed it may just be as easy to find a new block and move all my junk onto it. but i'm trying to hold out hope that it doesn't come to that. I just spent a ton of money building myself a nice workshop and wasnt planning on spending a lot on upgrades and parts till at least next fall.

    Thanks in advance for any insight you may have. This site has been great for helping sort out the tough stuff.Name:  20171026_075143.jpg
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  2. #2
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Fast repair would be to try to stud it and weld the stud to the block but odds of success are low. The problem is welding cast is very difficult.

    http://m.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/s...2Fnot+provided

    A cold weld epoxy can be used if there is a coolant leak problem. I'd find a new way to secure the accessories to keep stress off that area.

  3. #3
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Tough to make a good repair on that, Best bet would be to pull the cover and try to find someone who can weld or braze it. Cast is weldable with the right rod. Maybe find a mobile welder who could come do it where you are rather than having to haul it to a shop.

    To ease your self recriminations about breaking it, you just revealed a fracture that was there before. You can see the crack was old by the dark areas on the surface. The bright metal was all that was holding it together. Probably was not holding very tight before, thus the leak you were fixing.

  4. #4
    FEP Power Member Broncojunkie's Avatar
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    I just stopped by to agree with the hhr fan setup. I put one in my pace car and 88gt. I'll be installing the same thing in my 86 coupe and 82gt. Simple and perfect fit. I used a piece of aluminium angle on top and bottom to secure it.

  5. #5
    FEP Member wingnut180's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input. I dont think i stand to lose anything by trying jb weld and then gently drilling it out to install a helicoil. If that doesnt work then i think maybe i should decide if i want to find a mid 90s f series truck with a 5.8 to upgrade my 95 bronco then build the broncos 5.0 for the mustang, or if i should find a 96 explorer to get the block and upgrade to gt40 heads and intake. Either way i think i'm going to look at this as a great excuse to upgrade something. Both the f-trucks and old explorers are still easily found around here banged up and rusted out for under 500 bucks. And i was about ready to put the mustang to bed for the winter anyway.

    Thanks again for the input.
    Last edited by wingnut180; 10-27-2017 at 11:18 PM.

  6. #6

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    This is a really tough one. I'm completely with BMW Rider that this was a flaw in the original block. Weigh the following;

    To properly JB weld it and install a heilcoil, you would have to pull it all apart, since the drill and helicoil tap probably won't fit through the water pump. Maybe you'll be lucky. I don't think I want to give you any false hope, I think it would leak.

    My cheap 2 cents, remove the bolt. Clean all gunk out of the hole, you must be able to clean to the bottom of the hole, use wooden q-tips, or maybe pipe cleaners. Absolutely clean the broken cast surfaces with Acetone, or MPK. Super clean with a small, stiff wire brush, let dry! Apply JB weld per the instructions, sparily! Have long cotton wooden q-tips to remove any excess epoxy. If the casting doesn't match up perfectly with the break, it won't work! If you can put any kind of pressure on the broken casting with a c-clamp while the epoxy sets, you up your odds. Don't rush this, make sure the epoxy is set. From the looks and location, you might be able to do this. I would try all of this with the water pump installed, I'm kinda lazy.
    I surely wouldn't torque to spec, hope to shoot for half the torque, which I think is around 10 foot pounds.

    I bought a 460 block for $40 with a long crack on the water jacket from running zero antifreeze. It was removed from the vehicle, and I had it properly welded at a shop, and it supplied horsepower for years. You must weigh a professional fix, with a wing and a prayer JB weld fix. It just might work, won't know until you try. My daughters 2005 Ford Focus is still running with a hole poked in the aluminum oil pan in 2007, and repaired with JB weld, properly applied. But, this was a no torque repair. The hole was about the size of a finger tip.

    Tough going, best wishes!

  7. #7
    FEP Member wingnut180's Avatar
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    Thanks fairmont dave. I got the ps pump, alt and crank pulley pulled back off of it before i had to clean up for work tonight. I'll get the pump and timing cover back off in the morn before going back to bed. I'm pretty sure i will be able to use a small c clamp to hold it together from the inside of the blocks water passage to the outside of the broken peice. It will probibly be another day or two before i will have the time to spend properly cleaning it and applying the jb weld. With my work schedule and all, when i get it that far it will probably have a week or so to set up before i monkey around with a drill. I do realize i may only have a 10-15% chance of this working, but it's got to be worth a try. I really would like to see it work as the motor was freshly rebuilt before i got it. Some poor guy put a bunch of work into it and drove iy in his 87 mustang for a few months before nosing the car into a cranberry marsh like a kamakaze dive bomber. I got the whole car from him on craigslist for 650$ to use as the doner for my efi swap.

    Like i said tho, if it doesnt work i have a couple of choices i can make, just choices i wasn't supposed to be thinking about until next year.

    Wish me luck. I'll post an update in a week or two when i find out if it holds.

  8. #8

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    I'd just clean up the area the best I could and then just jbweld around the bolt. It was already broke before, just seal it up good and go about the rest of your day.

    I know, easier said then done. But really you just need it to not leak. On one of my old cars, 3 of the 4 long water pump bolts broke off in the timing chain area. I just put the other bolts back in and didn't have an issue.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
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  9. #9

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    that happened to me a long time ago on a F150. young and broke I cleaned it up came up with a way to clamp the piece on the block. ran tap thru threads. made sure a bolt went in and out nice. then took it apart , greased the bolt (careful not to over grease). I used marine tex because that is what I already had. JB weld should be just as good. put light coating of epoxy on both pieces set the bolt in the bore and clamped it together. left it for 24 hours unclamped it. the bold screwed right out. put everything back together careful not to over tighten that bolt. also be careful that bolt doesn't bottom out (think that's how mine cracked to start with) repair never failed . not the most correct of ways I guess but.... good luck which ever way you approach it

  10. #10
    FEP Power Member gmatt's Avatar
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    Just spitballin' here; I would consider drilling that bolt hole a bit deeper and tapping that extra depth. Then use a longer bolt or a stud. This is in addition to the other suggestions of epoxy-ing the broken piece back in place. I would run the drill through the water pump if possible to keep it properly aligned and drill slowly to avoid damaging the existing threads.

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Going deeper then tapping is not the worst idea. You could/should try a more conservative approach first but if all else fails.....

    If you get a stud and grind it down you can tap new threads on a smaller diameter piece on the end. Make sure you have the correct length or longer before you get starte.

    You could use a helicoil to help you stay centered with the drill then back the coil out and very gently tap the smaller theads. If you haven't already, machine or grind down the shoulder on the stud so it just slides past what's left of the existing threads.

    Clean the living hell out of the area with some rough sand paper then some brake clean.

    butter the stud up with JB weld then tighten it up. Let the JB weld cure.

    good luck.

  12. #12

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    Fwiw, my suggestion is as follows:
    1) Clean up the break very well with MEK or Acetone.
    2) Use JB-Weld - if you can keep the ambient temperature above 60F.

    **3) Drill the repaired hole, and use a helicoil!
    You want to use a helicoil on the repaired hole! The Helicoil will better distribute the force of the bolt.
    Actually, something like a solid bushing Time-Sert would be much better.
    A Time-Sert would do a much better job of distributing the force of the bolt. It better protects against stress and vibration.


    http://www.timesert.com/html/inchsert.html

    http://www.timesert.com/html/install.html#1



    Good Luck!

  13. #13
    FEP Member wingnut180's Avatar
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    Yup, thats the plan. Idk if its going to work, but as i posted earlier it has to be worth a try. I'm familiar with helicoils, but will definitely look at those timeserts. I think those may be what the milwrights use to fix stripped holes at my work. It's getting colder here now so this is going to have to wait till i can fill a 100lbs lp tank to keep the shop warm long enough for it to cure. Thanks for the input and the links.

  14. #14
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    Since the area you're working on is fairly small, you might try a heat lamp. If the lamp got things warm enough, you wouldn't have to burn as much lp.

  15. #15
    FEP Member wingnut180's Avatar
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    Good idea, may try that. Thanks

    Gotta say i always love how helpful the ppl on this site have always been when i find myself in a jam.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkd0r View Post
    Since the area you're working on is fairly small, you might try a heat lamp. If the lamp got things warm enough, you wouldn't have to burn as much lp.
    Yup, I've done that also.
    Especially for "quick" body work (patching new rust holes) for my winter Olds.

    Also, if you can do it safely, a "Mr Heater" that goes on the top of a propane tank does pretty good. But, for me, I would not trust leaving a propane heater on over night. Imho, I'd rather use electricity.

    Good Luck!

  17. #17

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    I would: clean up the adjoining cast areas (V-ing the outer edges for space for epoxy), set and hold the piece in place and drill for (approx. 1/8"?) roll pins perpendicular to the threads and centrally left and right of the threads for some extra insurance, apply metallic jb-weld, set the piece back on, tap in the roll pins, let the epoxy cure, clean up the threads with a tap. The torque spec for those bolts is only 15-22ft-lbs, so the tapped holes aren't normally highly-stressed, but only axially with the thread tap when the bolt is tightened... obviously, that one was maybe over-tightened or side-loaded somehow sometime in the past. Good luck with it
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 10-31-2017 at 02:41 PM.
    Mike
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  18. #18

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    Any updates on this? Always interesting to see how people make out with this sort of repair. I always drill out the holes in the timing cover to clean out the gunk that accumulates in there. More often the bolts get stuck in the cover, not in the block. I have been told its from dissimilar metal corrosion and not routinely changing antifreeze.

    Mike
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  19. #19
    FEP Member wingnut180's Avatar
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    Sorry no progress yet, my work schedule has been killin me and i'm also working hard to get a new gravel driveway put in before the ground freezes. I will definitely post some pics and results as soon as i can get back to this. I too hate reading through entire posts to not find out how a problem was solved. Posts with no closure will help no one else.

  20. #20
    FEP Member wingnut180's Avatar
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    Ok, a couple days and we'll see. Yesterday i pulled off the alt, ps, and water pump back off. Before pulling the timing cover i sandblasted the break and surrounding metal, then blasted the peice, and pulled the timing cover. I dry fitted the peice into place and used a c clamp to hold it.
    I played around with different space heaters untill i got to where the block around the repair is holding at 75 degrees even overnight so this morning i welded the peices together and clamped it back down.
    Now i get to wait a couple days to let it fully cure before screwing around with it again.
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  21. #21
    FEP Member wingnut180's Avatar
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    Alright, i got it all put back together. JB welded the peices together, let it sit for a week, masked and did my touchup paint, and everything looked good until i tryed to tighten the bolt. Then the metal started to split again. The bolt is at least holding for now, probibly because of the helicoil i jb welded in place and it is not leaking for now, so i think this will work as a temp fix until i go build somthing for more power in the next year or two. I would not trust it as a daily driver but for how i play with it i think it will be ok for now.

    Much thanks again to all who posted their help here.

  22. #22
    FEP Member wingnut180's Avatar
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    Just wanted to post a quick update. The 19 inch snowstorm we got here a couple of weeks ago delayed getting the car out and driving it for the first time since i finished the repair.
    I took it out this weekend and put around 100 miles on it. About 35 miles of country driving, 10-15 miles of beating on it in town, and a nice long blast down the interstate at 75-80 mph. Everything is clean and bone dry. For now, I'm going to call it a win.

    Much thanks to all who contributed.

  23. #23
    FEP Senior Member OX1's Avatar
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    I used this on a bellhousing ear that snapped off tightening
    down block to an engine stand.

    Welded as easy as mild steel, no porosity, only pre/post heat
    with a small torch for prep.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Crown-035-x...ty!08527!US!-1
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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by wingnut180 View Post
    Just wanted to post a quick update.
    I took it out this weekend and put around 100 miles on it. About 35 miles of country driving, 10-15 miles of beating on it in town, and a nice long blast down the interstate at 75-80 mph. Everything is clean and bone dry. For now, I'm going to call it a win.

    Glad that it's fixed.

    Thanks for the update!

  25. #25
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Winner!

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