Cranks but won't start

[bouchermb]

I have an 86 vert, and the yesterday the car started when I went to move it out of the garage, but when I went to move it back in, it just cranked over. I did manage to get it started one last time, to pull it back in, but now it won't start. The FP turns on for a couple second when I turn they key on, but I don't smell gas under the hood, even after cranking for 30 seconds or more. I did check the FP regulator and with the key in the "on" position it reads 20 psi, but it slowly falls back to zero. I also checked the coil, which seems to be fine and know I need to go through the entire electrical trouble shoot check list. It's got a 347 SC in it, with a Vortec T-Rex exdt. FP and I just wanted to see what you guys thought could be the issue.

Thanks in advance!!

[Lowetlx]

Deffinetly low on fuel pressure. You should be at 40-42 key on engine off. Are you running the intank lift pump also with the T. rex? That is what usually fails. Check for fuel in the vacuum lines if you think the regulator is ruptured.

[bouchermb]

Wow and good to know. I didn't know if 20 lbs, key on, car off was right, but I do know I didn't smell fuel even after excessive cranking. I have a 255 in the tank as well. Any ideas as to how I can determine what's on the blink or determine if the regulator is ruptured?

[dagenham]

Did you check the fo at the regulator or the schrader valve on the fuel rail?

[Ourobos]

If the regulator is ruptured, you can normally remove the vacuum line from it, sniff the line. If it smells strong of gas, the diaphragm is definitely bad.

I'd suspect one of your pumps is bad. I couldn't tell you how many times over the past few years I've seen the rubber hose on the in take pumps that connect it to the pickup bracket rot. I've had two rot in the past six months. E10 is rough on fuel lines.

[bouchermb]

I checked the FP gauge on the regulator. I wish I could figure out, which of them Is bad and any chance it could be a clogged fuel filter or am I dreaming of an inexpensive fix?

[Ourobos]

If you haven't changed it lately, I would anyways. Get a good one, not a chinese piece.

[bouchermb]

Gotcha and will do. I did just have my wife turn the key to on/not crank the car and FP spiked to 40, drooped immediately to 30, then eased back to 0. Does that tell you guys anything?

[Ourobos]

I couldn't tell you how many times over the past few years I've seen the rubber hose on the in take pumps that connect it to the pickup bracket rot. I've had two rot in the past six months. E10 is rough on fuel lines.

.....

[bouchermb]

I gotta drop the tank though to see that though, right?

[Ourobos]

Yes, hopefully you're near empty

[erratic50]

Up to 40 then slowly drop points to a different problem not fuel related.

I have an adjustable pressure regulator in my 86 along with a 190 pump. The adjustables are notorious for letting the fuel pressure in the rail bleed off very rapidly. Too rapidly. I usually turn my key on and off 2-3 times before I even try to start mine.

Im running a 70MM cobra MAF and a 65MM TB and an A9L to run my Typhoon EFI with 19 lb/hr injectors on a stock E6 head long block with a mild cam. It goes way lean up top (6000+) without 6 psi of extra fuel pressure. It's because I'm maxing out the injectors most likely but the cobra MAF is all wrong for the A9L ECU tune.

My next step is to switch to my Cobra ECU with 24's and go back to a non-adjustable regulator. If it fixes the hard starts I'll be happy. That will give me enough fuel to feel comfortable putting in a fresh longblock with cam and Edelbrock head swap - finally. (And ~11.5:1 compression)

Ultimately I'm going to run the A9L with moats quarterhorse and Binary Editor and EV6 47lb injectors on E85. The extra 12-15% more power from E85 tuned correctly will be fun.

What does a code scanner say?

Check your coil wire and rotor in your dizzy. I've burned those off before with similar symptoms. Ignition pickup in the distributor too as far as that goes.

[bouchermb]

Update. I had my wife crank the car, while I looked at the FP and here's what happened. When key gets turned to "on" position, FP spikes at 40, drops immediately to 30 then eases back to 0 quickly. When she cranked it, it had no impact and the fuel pressure dropped the same way it did without cranking.

Does that sounds like the diaphragm in the AFPR sticking open?

[cb84capri]

What fuel pressure regulator is on it? If you cycle the key a few times before starting it like erratic50 has to do, does it start easier?

Cale

[bouchermb]

Changed with AFPR and good news/ bad news. Good news is when I played with the new AFPR, now it holds FP, bad news it still cranks, no start. I pulled the plugs and they’re pretty well coated with carbon. Any chance this could be the problem. I figure not, but thought I’d ask.

[bouchermb]

I had an aeromotive and just put a Kirban AFPR on it.

[fairmontdave]

It would seem to me that it is time to check the spark. With the bad plugs, it is time to change them anyway. With the supercharger, gap should be around .030. When you said the coil seemed fine, you saw spark on a grounded plug? I know that you haven't smelt fuel from the cranking and no start, but what about the cap, rotors? Superchargers are rough on the ignition components. Erratic50 thinking this also.

[bouchermb]

Spent most of the weekend testing/trying to get it running and still nothing. I changed the coil last night too.

I’m about to throw in the towel.

[bouchermb]

Cap/rotor is a few years old and only put a couple thousand miles on it. I’m wondering if the lack of use could have caused the cap/rotor to get corroded?

[xctasy]

Haystack recommended Puerto Rico's Joel5.0's posts from another forum. I've read it many, many times.

If you can't pull codes, it's the many roads to Rome eathing issue, so you back up, and check the obvious.

Everytime you sart thinking like a Ford service technician, you get closer to finding the problems.

I know its another site, but you want to keep going back to the basics

http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,2471.0.html

[fairmontdave]

Sorry, I was shooting you towards the obvious little things. My troubleshooting can expand as I find stuff not up to my specs, like plugs and wires, since they deteriorate. If these basics are correct, plugs wires cap and rotors, then the codes will have good places to lead towards troubleshooting your problem.

[bouchermb]

Sorry, I was shooting you towards the obvious little things. My troubleshooting can expand as I find stuff not up to my specs, like plugs and wires, since they deteriorate. If these basics are correct, plugs wires cap and rotors, then the codes will have good places to lead towards troubleshooting your problem.

I really appreciate the feedback/recommendations and it's always smart to start with the basics and expand from there. Unfortunately my impatient self just starts throwing parts at things and gets frustrated when it magically doens't pan out. I'll check out Pueto Rico's Joel 5.0 post now and try and clear my head and start fresh.

Thanks again.

[dagenham]

I think this was asked but I didnt see an answer. Did you check for spark at the plugs?
Have you had the ignition module tested yet. That is pretty simple to?

On a different directional note, go to the local parts store and ask them if they rent noid lights. They test to make sure the injectors are getting a pulse to open and allow fuel.

[bouchermb]

I think this was asked but I didnt see an answer. Did you check for spark at the plugs?
Have you had the ignition module tested yet. That is pretty simple to?

On a different directional note, go to the local parts store and ask them if they rent noid lights. They test to make sure the injectors are getting a pulse to open and allow fuel.

I jumped the solenoid with the key in "run" position and plug off the distributor held near the block and nothing. I also pulled a plug, left it in the plug wire and connected a jumper cable to it and still no spark.

I pulled the EEC relay and ordered a replacement and also re-grounded the computer. I also ordered a code scanner, so i can get a better idea as to what's going on.

[bouchermb]

I was also thinking about renting a noid light as well. If the EEC relay doens't do the trick, I'm back to the "Crank, No Start" checklist.