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Thread: 1985 Emissions

  1. #1

    Default 1985 Emissions

    Hello,

    I'm in a state that has no emissions tests (AL) but want to replace my unmodified 5.0 vacuum lines. Not very much detailed info about this system online. Have no idea which size the lines are and can't find any actual photos of the vacuum lines in the original state. Both Vapor Canister Purge Valve Solenoids are cracked and can't find replacements. Most people say rip all that out and throw it in the trash but I'd like to keep it working as it was designed. Surely there has to be some info out there I'm missing. Otherwise, I don't see an alternative to deleting vacuum/emissions.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    I don't have it, but you came to the right place. Someone will chime in soon with the info to help you out.
    Jason Smith
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  3. #3
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Before we can help,

    there are numerous VECI diagrams depending on transmission type.



    Basically, there is a three letter code XXX then an EY 9C485 code that your VECI diagram has.

    XXX might be CHB
    Y is 5 as in EY 9C485


    All 85 5.0 Capris or Mustangs has an M VIN code, but its VECI diagram California or Hi Altitude, or transmission dependant .

    If its auto, it has one kind of Central Fuel Injection EFi and a very different VECI diagram.

    This is the normal 85 CFi (Central Fuel Injection) CMK E5AE 9C485



    If its 5 Speed, its 4bbl, and it has a number of very different 5.0 Carb VECI diagrams.

    qikgts has CHB E5AE_9C485 for his 1985 Hi Altidude 4V GT







    CHB E5AE 9C485 is the common Carbed 1985 5.0 4v Mustang and Capri base map for VECI, depending in version for 1985, the colors vary on the diagram



    Start at EGR for 4bbl.

    1. Four pages of 4V GT EGR and carb set up detail. EGR lines feed other stuff, and the CFi still a 2-bbl intake and very much like the Port EFi for emissions lines, which are discussed as well as 4V stuff

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ture-included)

    2. EGR and Purge system

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...et-EGR-working


    Vacuum Line Acronyms & Color Codes;

    For engine bay stuff, see

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...38#post1860738

    For hard lines, see

    Color Codes to do Vacuum Diagram locations

    Red = Main vacuum
    Green = EGR function
    Orange = Heat control Valve (exhaust & intake) (AKA heat riser but more complex)
    YellowYellow = Distributor advance
    White = EGR vacuum (source)
    Black = Mainly used for the Evaporative emissions control
    Brown = Thermactor ACV or Diverter valve
    Blue = Throttle Kicker control
    Pink = Thermactor Air Bypass Valve (BPV)

    Red = Main vacuum;
    Green = EGR function;
    Orange = Heat control Valve (exhaust & intake) (AKA heat riser but more complex);
    Yellow = Distributor advance;
    White = EGR vacuum (source);
    Black = Mainly used for the Evaporative emissions control
    Brown = Thermactor ACV or Diverter valve
    Blue = Throttle Kicker control;
    Pink =
    In detail

    Thermactor Air Bypass Valve
    (TAB or (BPV) /AIR Bypass (AIRB) valve
    ACV (Air Control Valve) is the TAD (Thermactor Air Diverter) Valve

    (AIR Bypass (AIRB) and AIR Diverter (AIRD) valve combinations)

    MAN VAC is Manifold Vacuum
    FPR is Fuel Pressure Regulator
    EGR is Exhaust Gas Re-circulation Valve
    SOL V: Thermactor Air Diverter (TAD) Solenoid (SOL V) (AIRD) & Thermactor Air Bypass (TAB) Solenoid EVR is EGR Vacuum Regulator VRESER is the Vacuum Reservoir Can (Tank);
    V REST on later years is Vapor Valve (Roll-Over)
    V REST on earlier years is a Vacuum Restictor/delay valve, it delays vacuum for a certain amount of time
    Carbon Can is Carbon Canister (Charcoal Canister, Vapor Canister, Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister)
    MAP is Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor
    AIR BPV is the AIR Bypass (AIRB) Valve; also called the TAB (Thermactor Air Bypass) Valve
    CPRV is Canister Purge Solenoid Valve/ Canister Purge Solenoid (CANP)
    VCKV is Vacuum Check Valve
    CAT is catalytic converter
    ENG is engine
    PCV is Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve

    The two and from parts are similar to the 1983, but you'll see the vacuum lines are very different.



    This post from fb71 should help you with all the parts.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ons-components


    The air cleaner parts,

    See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-vacuum-motors

    the white coupler is Ford P/N D4AZ-9E688-A.

    They've been obsolete for awhile, but you can still find them.
    They do tend to break off at the vacuum nipple, but if that happens, it can be repaired using a short
    length of ~1/8" thinwall brass tubing as a sleeve


  4. #4

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    Xctasy,
    Thanks for the info and links. I'll have to compare the numbers with what you posted when I get to my shop. It is a 5-speed manual 4bbl.

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Sometimes, the Engineering numbers can put you crook, sometimes, the same valve with the same numbers can operate totally differently.

    You'll look and see, and it'll all make sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    .... The brown delay
    valve goes in the line between your distributor vacuum source and the purge
    valve. You can just tee into the line to the distributor.

    The numbers on the delay valves are engineering numbers, and are not the best
    way to identify the valves. I've got two brown-sided valves with the same number
    molded into 'em, and they work exactly opposite each other. Fortunately, that's
    not so important for this project.

    What you want is the valve to be installed so that it resists applying vacuum
    to the purge valve, and easily releases the purge valve when vacuum goes away.
    Or to put it another way, the end you can blow through goes toward the purge
    valve.
    Quote Originally Posted by cb84capri View Post
    to further complicate things for the better, i got this stuff:



    those two things on the right i believe to be delay valves. the brown/white one says dist on the brown side, vac on the white side. has a ford code E3AE-DA

    the black/white valve says dist on the black side, and carb on the white side. it has the ford part number E3AE-EA.

    should i use these? i only have one ported vacuum source on my carb and it's hooked to my vacuum advance on my distributor. i was thinking i should tee this line and run one side to the purge valve. on the other side of the tee distributor side i would put one of these delay valves. is this right? what valve should i use?

    and on the far right i got the fitting for the charcoal canister. i'm going to replace the split o-ring (i can't believe i got this thing out of the cannister without breaking anything! after seeing it's design), but you'll notice the orifice valve. i looked on every car for that red one but none of them had it. and for my next question:



    is this where that fitting goes? his canister looks different from mine on top. on the top left side of my canister around the perimeter of the square where the vent is it says 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 in a counterclockwise direction from the 10 o'clock. on the right side in the same manner its says G F E D C B A. you can actually see what i'm talking about in my pic in post #34. i just want to know for sure because it will be a PITA to get the fitting out if it matter what side it goes in.

    and thanks again for helping me with this, i'd be lost without you guys.

    cale

  6. #6

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    Well, I thought there was a vacuum routing decal under the hood. Either it never was there or long gone. Fortunately, the lines weren't messed with by some 16 year old kid. This was my mother's car bought in Jan '91 and if there was anything done, it was at the shop. I'll have to read through the links you sent. Another issue I've had is finding the Vapor Canister Purge Valve Solenoid. Both of mine are cracked and I doubt I can repair these. The local parts house has one that says it is compatible for year/make/model but it isn't quite the same. Maybe different part # but would work (?) If it functions the same I'd be ok with it as I'm not restoring to show quality but to have it mechanically operational.

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  8. #8
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 in a counterclockwise direction from the 10 o'clock.
    on the right side in the same manner its says G F E D C B A.

    The parts are able to be found from another 4bbl. Carb GT's have two vapour recovery carbon cans.

    The parts that are broken should be common to most 4V Mustangs, but the CFi has only one. CFi or 4V M codes are your go to donars for these.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTJerry View Post
    ....The brown/black check valve that I showed in the earlier photo (the one that's broken) has the same E3A-DA number as yours. Not sure where the black/white valve would go. The brown/black one is used in my two 85s.

    ......pics show two cannisters from two different 85s. Both with numbers as you described for the cannister you have.





    Jerry

  9. #9

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    My canisters are in good shape. These are Pt # E3ZE-9B982-A2A. I think they route vapors from canisters to either carb when running or back to fuel tank. Can’t find any. Even on eBay. The other components aren’t difficult to find. I found a similar part but not sure if it’ll work.
    Also, can’t remember where the left hand exhaust manifold air diverter connects to. Maybe to the ported valve on the intake manifold.

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    There are two kinds. Air cleaner flapper valve.

    And the primary light off oxidation catalyst heat stove. Both are discribed variously as flapper valves.


    1. Air cleaner flapper valve v
    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    The flapper valve was used on carbureted and CFI 5.0 engines, to aid cold driveability, by warming the
    floor of the intake manifold. It was not used on the SEFI cars, because, being port-injected, they are
    not a wet-flow system. If you want to keep this feature, you will need the '85 flapper valve. Also if you
    want to use the '85-only shorties with the hot air tubes to the air cleaner, you will need the '85 flapper
    valve, or modify a later set of shorties to accept the heat tubes.

    When I converted my '85 hatch to full duals, I welded a short piece of 2" exhaust tubing to the driver-
    side '86-up JBA shorty, to connect to the air cleaner. (Passenger-side JBA shorty is the '85 version,
    which already had such a tube on it.) I am not using the flapper valve, since it rarely gets cold enough
    here to really matter. And even in Kalifornia, it has never been questioned.

    ......
    2. primary light off oxidation catalyst heat stove v

    All '85 4V engines got tube steel manifolds, Y-pipe, single cat, single mid-pipe, dual mufflers, dual tailpipes, stailess tips. I think there was a smaller cat (?) in the passenger side of the Y-pipe.

    Early (through 11/18/84) '85 CFI engines got '84 exhaust (cast iron manifolds, Y-pipe, single cat, single muffler, single tailpipe, twin stainless tip). After 11/18/84, CFI engine got same exhaust as '85 4V engine.
    The earlier 83 and 84's with 4-bbl carbs (not the CFi's) had no tubing headers, and had another kind of sectiondaryheat stove which blocked off one side of the exhasut to pre heat the primary light off oxidation catalyst.

    Its some times called a flapper valve too. The 85's have a bigger 2.75" one, not the earlier 2.375".

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...23#post1656823

    Quote Originally Posted by boboli View Post
    Since you asked about the heat riser, I found one of the 85 ones I have. I think I tossed the other long ago. There are 2 on ebay right now( 1 used and 1 new) that look exactly the same.
    from the rear


    from the engine side


    the label on the vacuum canister has long since been destroyed, so I can't read any #'s. The label almost looks to have a bluish color, but I can't say if that is original or just from time. The original on ebay has a red sticker. Maybe they are color coded to size? The only cast # on the valve body is a #4 right at the corner, near the vacuum canister.

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    The issue was that FoMoCo had to instantly follow Federal Emissions guidelines.
    Creativity was out the window, and the day Port EFi arrived, the emissions crud became massively simplified by other upstream Single (and in trucks, Dual) throttle body control systems, and the EVAP system got a lot easier to follow through.

    Fords carb and CFi systems weren't able to be dumbed down with the 1968 to 1985 IMCO and Thermactor kit, although the 1980-1985 CFi was sure a step in the right direction, and it got simplified a good deal over 5 years while gaining 30 hp to the bargin.

    Port EFI on Aero Stangs is practically all control system driven with a lot more electrics, and less lines.




    Back to the mass of rotted and broken lines.


    Sadly, the ignorance of the old system prevades...the 87-93 Evap canister is totally different to the earlier 83 to 85 4V GT 4bbl dual canister system.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7XH6bxTE-A

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...rcoal-canister

    Quote Originally Posted by 84rsturbo
    i was thinking about that. i have 2 charcoal canisters... i was thinking just to run my main lines from the carb and tank to the one inside the fender, delete the other and all the mess and should be better then plugging them off or just letting them hang.

    thanks for the heads up
    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    Yep, that would work. The pheds made Ford use two canisters with two fuel bowls,
    but when I retrofitted my old StaWag with the '85 engine, I connected the bowl
    vent lines together after the solenoids, then just ran a single line to the single
    canister. Never had any isssues, even with the Kalifornia smog nazis.

    My '85 still has both canisters, but I cleaned up the hoses a ton so it's not nearly
    so cluttered. The factory wasn't all that creative with their hose routing...

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlhardin135 View Post
    My canisters are in good shape. These are Pt # E3ZE-9B982-A2A. I think they route vapors from canisters to either carb when running or back to fuel tank. Can’t find any. Even on eBay. The other components aren’t difficult to find. I found a similar part but not sure if it’ll work.
    Also, can’t remember where the left hand exhaust manifold air diverter connects to. Maybe to the ported valve on the intake manifold.
    You might just have a one piece combo-multi-thermactor valve, listed ACV on some earlier VECI diagrams.



    If not, follow the lines closely on CHB E5AE_9C485.

    It actually takes a lot of confidence to go through this stuff and get it right. Don't be afraid of it, the air pump is the same as the later EFI ones, just the lines differ.


    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-pump-question

    All pumps should be the same, just different fittings. The later one had a curved back fitting

    Metermikes




    Carby



    EFI


  13. #13
    FEP Power Member Saturn V's Avatar
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    dlhardin,

    Kuddos to you for keeping the emissions equipment. Without this equipment, the car is going to stink of gasoline vapors. And remember, just because your state does not inspect these items, they are still required to meet federal law.

    See my thread below on this topic. I think what you show in your pics are actually the carb bowl vent solenoids, not the canister purge solenoids. Related, but not the same (I don't think carb'd 5.0s had the canister purge solenoid valves, but instead vacuum operated valves). I believe that I ordered my new bowl valves from seller djd16 on eBay, so you might contact them.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-replacements

    Here is a part that looks very close. you can also look for CX-239 or something like E3ZE-9B982-A2A ... the last three digits might be different. You might find that the length of the wires is slightly different from yours ... you might not be able to find the exact part, but can splice the wires to make them longer, if needed. As you can see, all of this plastic is very brittle now, so be careful working with this stuff.

    https://www.ebay.com/i/182805729151?rt=nc
    Present: '84.5 Mustang GT T-top, '06 Mazdaspeed6
    Past: '79 5.0 Capri, '86 Buick GN, '90 Mustang GT, '92 SHO, '95 SHO
    Browse cover pages of my Fox Chassis related library

  14. #14

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    I appreciate sending all the info my way. Work has kept me away for a couple of days but tomorrow I may be able to make some progress on this.
    Saturn, you’re right. I got the part name wrong somehow. Yeah, if I ever decided to sell the car it would be up to the next guy to modify. I kinda like keeping things original. The plastic vacuum lines are so brittle that they break with little effort. I’m hoping it’s worth it in the end.

  15. #15
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Yup, you nailed it.

    "https://picclick.com/NEW-OUT-OF-BOX-OEM-Ford-182493197208.html"

    E3ZE 9B982 A2A





    Be carefull they match OEM spec

    "NEW-OUT-OF-BOX-OEM-Ford-E4AE-9C915-AA-Vapor-Canister-Purge-Valve" isn't gonna do.

  16. #16

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    Aww...sold. Surely there has to be more of these out there somewhere or something that will work. Of all the autos that required theses back in the day. I mean, if I went to the dealership and said I need this repaired, surely they wouldn't tell me "Sorry, you'll have to park that car forever." Spent a few hrs replacing some really dry-rotten hoses today. Maybe about as many to go as I replaced today. Progress!! Don't fully understand what is going on with it all but keeping it as is should work.

  17. #17

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    Actually, I have two of these which I assume due to two canisters (?) When I pulled the engine one of them was hooked in to the wiring and the other was not. I'll have to check out the diagram to see what's supposed to be.

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    It lookes like, as long as you have


    1. the rough description of the VECI (Vehicle Emission Control Information Label)
    2. the Ford Engineering number
    3. a visual picture
    4. a knowledge of what year VECI it comes from.

    Then you can then lock down

    1. what it is, and
    2. where to get it.

    Like this



    An further example of the original hosing types from small to large are here.

    These small diameter replacement hoses show the original coloring that matches the VECI color protocol.



    Your hose replacement options are to


    1. craft/exacto knife the stock rubber tubes before replacement,

    2. copy any length and any

    3. "form fitting" bends (often the case with larger hoses...Ford has then form bent, so you need to find a similar sub bend, and join new aftermarket bends to gether, and

    4. then perhaps, look at Stormin'Normans options for hose replacement.

    This guy
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/member.p...Stormin-Norman

    like Red78',

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/member.php?6186-RED-78

    Both a FoMoCo parts dynomo's




    All 4-bbl V8's, from the little 5.0 to the huge 460 F250 truck, used the same colored emissions protocol

    Here is the 1986 4V 7.5 Liter non Catalyst F520 truck VECI





    After 1985, Ford totally aced the class on emission equipment.

    Like this 5.0 EFI stuff


  19. #19
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Veni Vidi Vici, um, VECI

    "I came, I saw, I conquered Emissions schematics..."


    Vehicle Emissions Control Information =VECI,

    my favorite.


    For the 1978 to 1983 Emmissions parts names


    see RED 78''s info.

    It misses the 1983 to 1986 FoMoCo engineering parts numbers, but it breaks out the names, and helps you find common parts.


    http://myzephyrs.com/vac_part_name.htm


    Stormin'Norman.

    https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f=...559118#p559118
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin' Norman
    Quote Originally Posted by FALCONAROUND
    Thanks for the info
    You're welcome.

    I have those rigid nylon stock tubes in their various colours, but I really don't want them, so I went to NAPA this morning and bought their old-school 5/32" ID rubber/nitrile hose (16 feet of it) because I thought of 2 solutions and they had a third one. First, I figured I could get some cheap ink or rubber paint and add a stripe for the different emissions circuits. If you look around, you'll see some VECI labels after 1980 with colour-coded circuits. Like RED to the Distributor, or White to the air cleaner, etc.. I tossed the stripe-painting away, because the colour would fall off.

    Next was going to a dollar store and looking for craft supplies with small coloured rings. Tossed that, because that plastic will turn to powder with the header heat.

    So I'm walking out of NAPA, and I see this small cable-tie kit for $7.00 and the guy I was dealing with told me to look under the clearance rack - $5.44 with over 100 pieces! All the colours I need Black, White, Green, Yellow, Blue, Red and Orange. Some cars with Cruise control use a Brown vacuum tube, and the 4-speed stick doesn't need a black tube to a tranny modulator.

    So I'll get the Cable Ties on at each end of the hose segments, by their designed circuit.

    What I have to do for my own tuning needs is make up my own VECI Hose Diagram and use it to route my system, to take advantage of those 'coolant temp' vacuum valves to control both Distributor Advance and AC operation. I'll put all the tuneup specs on this label for both the single Carter YFA, and the Tri-power Carter YF carbs at each end, spark plugs used, gapping, mechanical advance, and initial advance with RPMs and AC-ON/AC-OFF RPM.

    There is another solution, but I don't know if any AC repair shops carry them. All the AC vent control hoses are colour-coded much like the under-hood vacuum hoses. Hit the junkyards and dig under a Ford model vehicle's dash if it has AC. They aren't very long, but they can handle the usual vacuum range, and they're flexible enough. I just don't know if they are resistant to chemicals, gas and oil, like we find under the hood
    .

  20. #20
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Stormin'Norman's source of color identification

    Red = Main vacuum
    Green = EGR function
    Orange = Heat control Valve (exhaust & intake) (AKA heat riser but more complex)
    YellowYellow = Distributor advance
    White = EGR vacuum (source)
    Black = Mainly used for the Evaporative emissions control
    Brown = Thermactor ACV or Diverter valve
    Blue = Throttle Kicker control
    Pink = Thermactor Air Bypass Valve (BPV)




    cable_tie_kit



    cable_tie_kit_002



    cable_tie_kit_003



    hvac_ac_cable_kit_001

  21. #21

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    Used some JB Weld to fix the cracked purge valve solenoid. Hopefully, the engine/trans will be in the car before this weekend is done. All lines have been replaced. Now to see if it does correctly when and if all else is good. Last vac routing diagram is probably the best I've seen.

  22. #22

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    Love that stuff....

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Love that stuff....
    HUH!

    What kind of evil B'tard would use JB Weld....




  24. #24
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlhardin135 View Post
    Used some JB Weld to fix the cracked purge valve solenoid. Hopefully, the engine/trans will be in the car before this weekend is done. All lines have been replaced. Now to see if it does correctly when and if all else is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by dlhardin135 View Post
    Last vac routing diagram is probably the best I've seen.

    The last vac routing being this one?



    Its EFi, and I was looking for the carb....

    I turned every word around so it faced the right way....

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    HUH!

    What kind of evil B'tard would use JB Weld....



    Guess that would be me. Never heard of this but I take note ;-)

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