What's ticking?

[LTDScott]

I replaced the head gaskets on my engine a few months ago and I've been fighting what I thought was a noisy valvetrain ever since. At the time, I had my AFR 165s resurfaced, installed new valve springs and seals from Ed Curtis, then reused the same Crane Cobra 1.7 pedestal roller rockers I had before and capped it off with new (to me) Ford racing black finned valve covers.

At first I thought I had adjusted/shimmed the rockers incorrectly. When I first put the motor back together, I used the same stock pushrods I was using before, and didn't account for the fact that the heads were slightly machined. So I checked the rocker sweep on the end of the valve stems and determined I needed longer push rods. Threw them in, adjusted them, no change. I've re-adjusted them several times with no improvement. I had read multiple times that the Crane Cobra rockers were noisy by nature, so I bought some new brand Scorpion 1.7s. Dialed everything in correctly and I still have the noise. I am at my wit's end!

The engine is fine when cold, but gets progressively louder as the engine warms up. It's not a knocking noise, but in my opinion not quite a "ticking." To me it sounds loudest on the upper driver's side of the engine, but you can hear it from underneath. Oil pressure according to my Autometer mechanical gauge is fine, the car runs great, and other than the noise, I can't find anything wrong.

Here are some videos of the noise. First is one above and under the engine:

LTD ticking - YouTube

Second is up close to the driver's side valve cover:

LTD ticking 2 - YouTube

Any ideas?

[Marz]

Mike, the friend that built my motor, can't stand pedestal mount roller rockers just because of this reason. He always recommends stud mount.

He's told me that yes, he could adjust them and get the ticking out. But then with pedestal mounts there is not guarantee that it wont come back.

[Chrome_Rush]

It sucks to do all that work and spend all that cash and have a noisy engine. I hope you resolve the issue. Sometimes its just the nature of the beast. The 2.6 in my conquest only has 800 miles on it with a full rebuild and machine work and a brand new not rebuilt head and top end parts cam and all. But tge car has mechanical lifters. No matter how much i adjust them they have never stopped tapping/tixking a bit. It drives me nuts that this brand new engine sounds like a tired beat up one with a ton of miles.

[85mcLaren]

Bairly push the clutch in when hot and starts making noise. See if the noise stops or lessons. If so - it could be the thrust bearing on the other side of the crank or pilot.

Jason

[zac_f83]

that sounds exactly like my old 87- improperly shimmed rockers..(to much lash) what is your lash measurement? what shim are installed? does it get louder when rev'd?

if it persists I say sell both sets of the rockers and buy the ARP stud mount conversion (mount stud mounted rockers to a pedestal mount head)

[LTDScott]

Noise doesn't change with the clutch pressed in or out.

This is probably the 4th time I've adjusted the rockers lately, so I'm well versed with the procedure.... with the cylinder at TDC and both rockers on the base of the cam, tighten rocker bolt until there's zero lash (no up/down play) between the push rod and rocker. Then tighten the bolt to 20 ft/lbs within 1/4 to 1 turn of the bolt.

I actually had two different length push rods to choose from (stock 6.275" and 6.3") and I took quite a while to experiment to get the narrowest sweep. Ended up with the stock length push rods and most cylinders used 2 thin shims or 1 thick thim and got to correct torque within 1/4 - 1/2 turns.

[FM2NOTCH]

When the exhaust valve just begins to open on the #1 cylinder, adjust the #1 intake valve by loosening the adjusting nut slightly while spinning the pushrod until you feel lash in the rocker arm. Tighten the adjusting nut until the slack is taken out of the rocker arm and pushrod. Lightly turn the pushrod with your fingers as you tighten the adjusting nut, and you should feel a point where there is a little resistance. This is called zero lash – the point where you have taken all of the excess slack out of the pushrod. Turn the adjusting nut ½ turn past this point, giving you optimal pre-load for the rocker arm, pushrod and lifter. Follow this procedure by carefully adjusting each intake valve according to cylinder firing order.

Next, we’ll adjust the exhaust valves. To do so, you need to turn the engine over until the intake pushrod moves all the way up. Rotate just past maximum lift, where the intake will begin to close. The lifter is now at the base circle, and the exhaust valve can be adjusted. Note: DO NOT go too far down (over halfway) past the point of maximum lift. If you go too far, you will be in the overlap cycle – where intake valve lash is being taken up as the exhaust valve begins to open.

Rotate the exhaust pushrod with your fingers and begin to tighten the exhaust adjusting nut. When you begin to feel resistance against the pushrod, you are once again at zero lash. Tighten the adjusting nut another ½ turn.

[LTDScott]

FM2NOTCH, you just described the procedure for stud mount rockers, which I already established I do not have.

Regardless, the whole point is to make sure the cam is on the base of the lobe. You can do it the way you describe it or my method. I started at TDC for #1 and actually marked the crank pulley at 90 degree intervals so I could tell when I was at TDC on each cylinder and then just went along the firing order.

[FM2NOTCH]

the procedure is the same,you just use shims instead to get the preload right

[LTDScott]

I just played with the car for a while. It still sounds to me like the noise is originating from the driver's side valve cover or under the upper intake.

I used my mechanic's stethescope and poked around. The noise reverberates through the engine, so it was hard to narrow down, but it still sounds loudest under the valve cover.

I would question the lifters, but normally they'd start loud and get quieter once warmed up. This is very frustrating!

[FM2NOTCH]

on pedestal rockers, if you were to accidently install one or more with the flat side of the what is it called? pinion trunion? down toward the head it will break/crack the pedestals, you might want to check them. the flat part should be facing up before installing the bolt

been there done it

[JACook]

It depends on the valvesprings, bleed-down rate of the lifters, and how aggressively the cam
lobes open the valves. If the lifters are bleeding down, the noise will increase as the oil heats.

[LTDScott]

FM2NOTCH, valid point. I'm 99.9% sure I installed them all correctly, but I can't say without pulling it apart and looking again.

JACook, if that were the case, would a different viscosity oil help? I do not plan on pulling the lower intake any time soon.

[Marz]

Did you check to see if it is the bottom end?

Remove the spark plug wire of the suspected cylinder and start the car. If the noise is still there... it's you're bottom end. This is how I found the issue(s) with my Mustangs motor.

[FM2NOTCH]

when you get the valve covers off check for signs of contact between the rockers,valve covers, baffles, rockers retainers, etc.

also check the pushrods, make sure the ball on either end hasn't broken off

[Marz]

when you get the valve covers off check for signs of contact between the rockers,valve covers, baffles, rockers retainers, etc.

also check the pushrods, make sure the ball on either end hasn't broken off

This! Or even mostly broken but not off yet. That was one of three issues wrong with my 85's original block. One of the pushrods ball had broken off but was still on the rod. Also had bad bearings and a blown head gasket. For an original motor with close to 180K on it... it held up fairly well for those 25 years! lol

But pushrod wise I do not like the three piece pushrods. I go with one piece only.

[LTDScott]

No sign of contact was found on the rockers, valve spring retainers, or valve covers. I used two different sets of pushrods and all of them were fine.

[Marz]

No sign of contact was found on the rockers, valve spring retainers, or valve covers. I used two different sets of pushrods and all of them were fine.

Try that trick I posted above to see if it's an issue with the valve train or the bottom end. Being how you have used two different pusrods and the ticking continues you can possibly still have issues with the valve train or something going on in the bottom end.

[JACook]

If the noise is being caused by lifter bleed-down, thicker oil would reduce the bleed-down rate.
One other characteristic of lifter bleed-down is the noise level will tend to have resonant points
in the RPM range where it increases or decreases at specific RPM points. The resonance effect
is especially noticeable when the lifters are all bleeding down at a consistent rate.

[LTDScott]

Marz, I'll certainly give that a try. What exactly was wrong with your bottom end? If it's bearings, I would think oil pressure would be low. And how would disabling one cylinder affect it?

JACook, it's hard to tell, but it does sound like the noise gets louder at certain RPM points. I'm giving thought to changing the oil and running 10W40 instead of the normal 10W30.

[Marz]

Marz, I'll certainly give that a try. What exactly was wrong with your bottom end? If it's bearings, I would think oil pressure would be low. And how would disabling one cylinder affect it?

Pull one plug at a time. Use insulated pliers if you need too. Or just turn the car off before each wire pull. If you pull a plug and the sound changes you have a problem in your bottom end on that cylinder. If no change is heard time to take a look into the valve train.

What was wrong? A combo of a few things. One was extremely bad bearings. One was spun. This was with the old motor.

[LTDScott]

For the record, I did a bit more investigating yesterday. Tightened up all header bolts (found one that was just finger tight), tightened the collector nuts (were a bit loose), changed the oil and used 10W40 instead of 10W30 and there was no change in the noise.

I then pulled each spark plug wire one by one to see if the noise changed, but no dice.

The noise definitely seems centralized under the driver's side valve cover area or under the intake. I am positive I adjusted the rockers correctly, so I'm thinking the only constant in all of this is the lifters.

I'd rather poke myself in the eye with a stick than pull the lower intake at this point, and my car is just a weekend driver, so I'm just going to live with it for now until I have more time to deal with it or something goes wrong.

[SVTGT350]

Just came across this, I'm battling the same kind noise in my Anny GT350. Did you find or do you remember what it ended up being?