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  1. #1
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Default 84 LX 5.0 wont start

    I was driving my LX 5.0 near my house and it began to buck and stutter. Unresponsive to the gas pedal. Then the RPMs dropped to zero and the car cut out. It would not restart. I tried to swap the fuel pump relay but still no start. I had my son check the coil for spark when I turned over the motor and there was none at the coil or distributor sides of the coil wire. Is this a bad coil or bad TFI? I have a Motorcraft TFI and a relocation kit so the TFI is between the radiatior and front grille. The coil is an Accel high performance. We had to push my car home 3 blocks. Totally sucked. tomorow I have to see whats going on.

  2. #2
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    TFI on an 84? This an EFI swap?
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  3. #3
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ourobos View Post
    TFI on an 84? This an EFI swap?
    Original CFI set up. Came stock in the 84 LX

    I tried to swap the coil with a used one that worked before. Still crank no start. Still no spark at the coil.

  4. #4
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    I'd guess ignition switch in column then. Pull the plastic from the column and inspect it for any separation.

    https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-for...stangs.787471/
    Last edited by Ourobos; 10-08-2017 at 07:21 PM.
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  5. #5
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    I just swapped the ignition coil with a brand new Motorcraft one and I got the car started. It kept stalling as soon as it turned over and ran rough when I got it to stay running. I had to pump the gas pedal to force gas through to get the RPMs up to normal. I ran a code scan and came up with 14 and 18 in CM. The 14 means PIP failure. Of course its the worst possible outcome. Now I have to pull the distro and take it over to the machine shop to swap the PIP once again. I ordered a motorcraft DU30C from local parts store. I'm changing the TFI at the same time to try to eliminate this headache once and for all.

  6. #6
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    That would have been my next guess after the ignition in the column.. At least you figured it out
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  7. #7
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ourobos View Post
    That would have been my next guess after the ignition in the column.. At least you figured it out
    Its running nice right now but Im still pulling the distro and swaping the PIP tomorrow. The question is why do these components fail every year or so? I just swapped both TFI and PIP with Motorcraft parts about a year ago, and a year before that.

  8. #8
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    Normally due to chinese parts, odd that the motorcraft pieces have given you such grief. I wouldn't use anything but motorcraft on any ignition component still.
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  9. #9

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    That many bad Motorcraft parts is highly unlikely. Just because you get a PIP code doesn't necessarily mean that it is the PIP. It could be a bad wire or connection to the PIP.

    When you swap a part out, the wires get moved and it works. Eventually the wires move from vibration and the connection breaks again. These kinds of problems are a real pain to track down. I went through this with my wife's Buick. It would die and leave her stranded. I would check it out and drive it for a few days and it was fine. As soon as she drove it again it would die and leave her stranded. Finally, it did it when I was looking at it and I discovered that it was losing power to the crank sensor, the wire was pinched behind the AC compressor and intermittently shorting out. Ran a new wire and the problem was solved.

    Try back-probing the six pin connector on the TFI module, the top pin is PIP. Sewing needles can be used for the probes. An analog volt meter is handy as it's easier to see fluctuations. Pull the coil lead off of the distributor and ground it. With the key on, turn the motor by hand, or bump it with a remote start switch, until the PIP reads high. Then start jiggling the wires and see if the volt meter dips. You can try the same thing on the power wire (fourth from the top). If nothing found at the module then back probe the PIP at the ECU. Try turning the motor until the PIP reads low and do the wiggle test again. If the meter jumps up while wiggling wires then that would indicate a bad ground. Not a bad idea to clean and tighten every ground wire you can find.

  10. #10
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrriggs View Post
    That many bad Motorcraft parts is highly unlikely. Just because you get a PIP code doesn't necessarily mean that it is the PIP. It could be a bad wire or connection to the PIP.

    When you swap a part out, the wires get moved and it works. Eventually the wires move from vibration and the connection breaks again. These kinds of problems are a real pain to track down. I went through this with my wife's Buick. It would die and leave her stranded. I would check it out and drive it for a few days and it was fine. As soon as she drove it again it would die and leave her stranded. Finally, it did it when I was looking at it and I discovered that it was losing power to the crank sensor, the wire was pinched behind the AC compressor and intermittently shorting out. Ran a new wire and the problem was solved.

    Try back-probing the six pin connector on the TFI module, the top pin is PIP. Sewing needles can be used for the probes. An analog volt meter is handy as it's easier to see fluctuations. Pull the coil lead off of the distributor and ground it. With the key on, turn the motor by hand, or bump it with a remote start switch, until the PIP reads high. Then start jiggling the wires and see if the volt meter dips. You can try the same thing on the power wire (fourth from the top). If nothing found at the module then back probe the PIP at the ECU. Try turning the motor until the PIP reads low and do the wiggle test again. If the meter jumps up while wiggling wires then that would indicate a bad ground. Not a bad idea to clean and tighten every ground wire you can find.
    I just swapped the engine for a rebuilt one last summer. When it was out of the car I took advantage of the time between engine swapping and to physically inspected every wire in the engine bay. Removed all the old loom, cleaned every contact with wire drier, put a dab of dielectric grease on all contacts. All connectors in the engine bay were replaced prior and any crusty or broken wire jackets were repaired.

    I do have a TFI relocation kit so i know its not overheating the TFI but I wonder if the extended wire harness changes resistance on the wires that could be causing issues between the TFI and PIP? The TFI relocation must work because Ford did that stock on many models as well.

    I also noticed my cap has crusty crap on the contacts. I find that every time I pull the cap. Is there a brand of cap that is not prone to that? Mine is stock Motorcraft. I did have an MSI with copper contacts before the motor swap but that one also got crusted and much faster than the aluminum contacts. Thats why I pulled it.

  11. #11
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    This problem gets worse and worse. I just had the PIP in the distro swapped for a Motorcraft, I replaced the TFI and ignition coil with Motorcraft parts. Took the car for a run and it seemed OK for a few miles, then it went right back into bucking, stuttering and stalling. It did start right back up and i was able to drive home with no further incident but whatever was wrong before is still present even after replacing all the ignition compenents. I ran a code scan as soon as I got home. No codes in KOEO ir in CM but still a code 41 Lean condition in KOER. A few years back i had a problem wit bucking while driving but not stalling that was because the O2 wasnt grounded right. Im not sure what or why this is an issue. The O2 is grounded behine the engine block to the passenger side head. I cleaned the ring terminal and the back of the head with snad paper when the engine was dropping in last summer. Cant be coroded or rsty this soon. Also the wire to the O2 is intact. No melted or boken spots so i dont know what to make of this.

    Im gonna try to swap the O2. The last few times I used Denso. Im thinking of trying NGK this time. Any opinions on the best O2 to use? Not a universal one, a stock O2 with the stock single blade connector.

  12. #12

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    "When it was out of the car I took advantage of the time between engine swapping and to physically inspected every wire in the engine bay. Removed all the old loom, cleaned every contact with wire drier, put a dab of dielectric grease on all contacts. All connectors in the engine bay were replaced prior and any crusty or broken wire jackets were repaired."

    If that hasn't ever included testing at least the suspected components' wires (under the hood, under the dash, and wherever else they go) for solid continuity, especially when moved/wiggled around and/or cold/hot, you will be chasing your tail and replacing the components of the dumbed-down system that quite likely do not need replacing, perpetually, for years to come... as has been your experience thus far. Replacing or having replaced components that aren't tested first and reveal that they actually need to be replaced is irresponsible/corrupt of the paid component-replacing individual, and must be costing you unnecessarily an arm and a leg. Surely others might chime in, but I have the Probst book here, and will return when I have some more time to indicate how to check components and what they should be revealing if they're fine or effed.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
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  13. #13
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    "When it was out of the car I took advantage of the time between engine swapping and to physically inspected every wire in the engine bay. Removed all the old loom, cleaned every contact with wire drier, put a dab of dielectric grease on all contacts. All connectors in the engine bay were replaced prior and any crusty or broken wire jackets were repaired."

    If that hasn't ever included testing at least the suspected components' wires (under the hood, under the dash, and wherever else they go) for solid continuity, especially when moved/wiggled around and/or cold/hot, you will be chasing your tail and replacing the components of the dumbed-down system that quite likely do not need replacing, perpetually, for years to come... as has been your experience thus far. Replacing or having replaced components that aren't tested first and reveal that they actually need to be replaced is irresponsible/corrupt of the paid component-replacing individual, and must be costing you unnecessarily an arm and a leg. Surely others might chime in, but I have the Probst book here, and will return when I have some more time to indicate how to check components and what they should be revealing if they're fine or effed.
    considering that the coil had no spark, and still had no spark after swapping with a used in my garage, I think at that point replacing the TFI and coil were in order. As per all the info I have rad on this subject, combined with the fact that my code scan turned code 14, PIP failure, I think it was also prudent to change that as well with a Genuine Motorcraft Part.

    I do however appreciate the "sorry fred your SOL" response though. Thanks a bunch.

    condescending, terse and rude in every possible way. And I thought this was a forum where people helped.

  14. #14

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    I was also guilty of initially taking some of the responses from WT and a few others here in a similar way, until I started re-reading them. And seeing more of their posts and their posting style. You will be amazed at what comes from a select few in terms of detail when they have time!

    I would ask that everyone always considers the time it takes to give responses. Also consider that the members here are under no obligation to give any responses but choose to do so with the intention of passing along their personal experience as their way of trying to help.

    I can't imagine this forum without some of the posts in exceptional detail guys like WT have given. Trust that if he has more time you will likely see exactly and precisely what I mean.

    Please reread WT's comments in this context with less frustration within your heart and mind over your car coloring the words on the page as you read them then respond with edits/updates accordingly.

    best regards!
    -- James

    86 Mustang GT - Black with red interior. 5.0 T5 built as Z. Original motor ~1/2 million miles. 18 yr daily, 7 a toy
    85 Mustang Saleen 1985-0006? (Lol) Planning Medium Canyon Red / Grey interior. Mystery. Current project roller, tons of Saleen pedigree

    Also in the stable - 1986 Mustang GT Convertible. Black/Black/Black conversion. 93 leather. VM1 ECU. T5Z
    past foxes - 1989 Mustang LX Sport 5.0 AOD white/tan black top

    I'm a four eyed pride supporter, are you? Become one today!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by fgross2006 View Post
    considering that the coil had no spark, and still had no spark after swapping with a used in my garage, I think at that point replacing the TFI and coil were in order. As per all the info I have rad on this subject, combined with the fact that my code scan turned code 14, PIP failure, I think it was also prudent to change that as well with a Genuine Motorcraft Part.

    I do however appreciate the "sorry fred your SOL" response though. Thanks a bunch.

    condescending, terse and rude in every possible way. And I thought this was a forum where people helped.
    IMHO, two different coils and no spark does not indicate to me that another coil is necessary to try, not without testing the two of them (and circuit wiring and coil and plug wires) and deeming the coils no good, but that something else is wrong. As "mrriggs" correctly pointed out above, a PIP (14) code does not automatically mean that a new PIP sensor will be the solution.

    Code 14 (EEC-IV trouble codes begin bottom of the following image) from "CM" indicates the CIRCUIT has failed or is erratic, not just the sensor, but all wires and connections need verifying that they are okay too...


    I'm going to start a new thread elsewhere with a bunch of sensor testing images and trouble code charts from my book, but will post what I hope is helpful for you in here.

    I apologize for having come across in those ways. Absolutely not intended. I have been here a while and have seen the struggles you have had with your car, and honestly wish to try to help. People might wonder why I have contempt for these systems. I have good reason. I do not however have contempt for people having trouble or trying to make them work though.


    Here are EGO/HEGO and TFI/PIP/SPOUT testing procedure page images:








    Here is the wiring diagram that includes your car from the book:

    Zoomed in...


    Good luck with it.
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 10-11-2017 at 06:59 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1966 Ford Fairlane sedan
    1966 Ford Fairlane GT
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham
    1980 Capri RS Turbo
    1971 Mustang
    1974 Pontiac LeMans

  16. #16
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    IMHO, two different coils and no spark does not indicate to me that another coil is necessary to try, not without testing the two of them (and circuit wiring and coil and plug wires) and deeming the coils no good, but that something else is wrong. As "mrriggs" correctly pointed out above, a PIP (14) code does not automatically mean that a new PIP sensor will be the solution.

    Code 14 (EEC-IV trouble codes begin bottom of the following image) from "CM" indicates the CIRCUIT has failed or is erratic, not just the sensor, but all wires and connections need verifying that they are okay too...


    I'm going to start a new thread elsewhere with a bunch of sensor testing images and trouble code charts from my book, but will post what I hope is helpful for you in here.

    I apologize for having come across in those ways. Absolutely not intended. I have been here a while and have seen the struggles you have had with your car, and honestly wish to try to help. People might wonder why I have contempt for these systems. I have good reason. I do not however have contempt for people having trouble or trying to make them work though.


    Here are EGO/HEGO and TFI/PIP/SPOUT testing procedure page images:








    Here is the wiring diagram (if not clearly visible, I'll try a larger image) that includes your car from the book:



    Good luck with it.

    Thanks for the additional info. Sorry if I jumped to take offense.

    I have learned a lot on this forum and have solved issues my own mechanic could not solve just from reading and posting here. Im not a mechanic by trade so testing wires is a bit out of my skillset. I do recall when I first got my car it was bucking when cruising and my mechanic could not find a cause or solution. After picking Jeff's brain on the O2 sensor set up on my car we found someone prior in the cars history had replaced the O2 and grounded it to the firewall. After being shown the correct set up and connectors I found them on ebay and corrected the set up and properly grounded the O2 to the engine block and the bucking stopped.

    Last year I swapped out my motor with a crate motor. I made sure to tell my mechanic to bolt the O2 ring terminal ground to the back of one of the heads. I found after that he also piggybacked the engine ground strap to the same spot with a single bolt. So in effect, the engine is grounded to the firewall, and the O2 is grounded to the passenger side head and piggy back grounded to the firewall (if that makes any sense).

    I had no code 41 or bucking with my old motor. It ran fine until the day I discovered the cam was shot. I'm gonna separate these 2 grounds to opposite heads and see if that clears up the code 41 and the bucking.

    Although I still have no idea why the bucking and stall burnt out my ignition system last Saturday evening.

    Also, I have that shop manual and I've been looking for it the past few days. I cleaned out my garage this summer to make room for the Mustang for winter storage. Few things I cant find and those 2 shop manuals seem to be in the black hole for the moment.
    Last edited by fgross2006; 10-11-2017 at 07:01 PM.

  17. #17
    FEP Power Member xctasy's Avatar
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    If your roads are de iced by salt or has CMA applied, then you electrical parts will oxidise more than in the non rust Belt areas. Its NY, dude.

    We have that problem even down here New Zealand in winter time. Over time, the contacts just get unable to conduct electricity.

    JACook covers what should be there, and options to use existing parts.

    Fords empty box engineering ment that "specfications change without notice"

    Just like the 2.3 efi Turbo O2 wires verses the CFi version,
    or the Green TVS instead of the Pink one for your twin snorkle intake.
    Or the wiper dwell unit and cruise differences which follow Fords embeded wire protocol only for your car. Change the part, then you might have to change the wiring elseware.

    The O2 sensor is different to the 2.3 Turbo EFI, and any grafted in harness might have the rerouted jumper wire from the later EFi systems.

    Ford had ways of undoing certain protocolls.

    Ford takes some freedoms/liberties when building cars throughout a year; don't assume that a grafted in cable will be the same, even if the same year. The TFI cable graft in has some other parts which may be causing another earthing point.

    Normally, a ground will cause the cut out. Sensors should be at the 5 v area, 12v indicates and earthing problem.

    This is exactly what makes it hard.

    Its like your a shepard with 100 flock of sheep, but you keep counting and have one missing sheep.

    You protect the 99 sheep you've got, then figure out a way to find the missing sheep.

    Ford wiring is like that...you have to keep the correct checks away from becoming lost sheep.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...180792-A9l-ecu

    The Four Roads to Rome ground out causes issues with the EECIV. Now, you don't have to do these in any order, because often, the reference voltages are thrown to sheol by the 5 th test below.

    I know you've had the Codes checked. That might not actually mean you've NOT got a problem.

    Sometimes an earth fault stops the fault codes being picked up.

    There are three basic levels of Code reader checks,

    Haystack's two


    1. Key On Engine Off (KOEO)
    https://youtu.be/z0ehA8cFTkc

    2. Key On Engine Running (KOER) test
    https://youtu.be/9QSiS6wf7oU

    3. A three tier balance test can also be done if you use the Innova Equus Ford Code Reader3145 with 6ft cable 3149





    These Lower level test still are best done by Digital code reader, which is needed for quick on the fly fault code checks because the 83 to 86 MCU/EFI Ford 2.3/3.8/5.0 Mustangs have no traditional CEL (Check Engine Light) or MIL (Mailfunction Indicator Lamp).

    4. Forth is an Intermediate level check often done in the olden days using a Thexton 60 pin breakout box.

    The normal way to check is by a breakout box, and then to probe.



    Its a 6 x 10 matrix prong system, with an overlay for the various codes. That really tells you if your earths are working correctly.

    5. Fifth is the High level is the inspection of the ECU chip and its just a pull out of the EECIV, and a physical check. Replacment fixes reference voltages and on the CFi, thats critically important. The Capacitor fault is common, and very easy to fix, and you can use the next voltage up capacitor if you can't find the original 47uF 50v and 10uF 25v.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=B0Dj40Dkszo

    you need these 3. It's (2) 47uF




    and (1) 10uF



    Nichicon and Rubycon are the best,

    but i didn't want to wait. i found these at the local nerd-supply store (Fry's).

    they're pretty easy to change on this. hardest part when i did it the first time was getting the holes solder free using the stupid solder sucker. that was on a motherboard i fixed. now i just heat up the solder and blow spitball style through a gutted out pen. Works amazing. For $3-4, it's well worth the effort
    I'd be betting its an earthing and lash together issue with the parts you've had to make fit. Ford made these cars fast in the factory, from rather ordinary quality parts, and with age, ordinary becomes sub standard.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by fgross2006 View Post
    Thanks for the additional info. Sorry if I jumped to take offense.

    I have learned a lot on this forum and have solved issues my own mechanic could not solve just from reading and posting here. Im not a mechanic by trade so testing wires is a bit out of my skillset. I do recall when I first got my car it was bucking when cruising and my mechanic could not find a cause or solution. After picking Jeff's brain on the O2 sensor set up on my car we found someone prior in the cars history had replaced the O2 and grounded it to the firewall. After being shown the correct set up and connectors I found them on ebay and corrected the set up and properly grounded the O2 to the engine block and the bucking stopped.

    Last year I swapped out my motor with a crate motor. I made sure to tell my mechanic to bolt the O2 ring terminal ground to the back of one of the heads. I found after that he also piggybacked the engine ground strap to the same spot with a single bolt. So in effect, the engine is grounded to the firewall, and the O2 is grounded to the passenger side head and piggy back grounded to the firewall (if that makes any sense).

    I had no code 41 or bucking with my old motor. It ran fine until the day I discovered the cam was shot. I'm gonna separate these 2 grounds to opposite heads and see if that clears up the code 41 and the bucking.

    Although I still have no idea why the bucking and stall burnt out my ignition system last Saturday evening.

    Also, I have that shop manual and I've been looking for it the past few days. I cleaned out my garage this summer to make room for the Mustang for winter storage. Few things I cant find and those 2 shop manuals seem to be in the black hole for the moment.
    Quite welcome, and, no offense taken. I thoroughly understand the frustrations of trying to understand/maintain/fix and have a multiply-dependent-sensored system of control (that I deem entirely unnecessary for correct or near perfectly efficient internal combustion, hence me tearing electronic fuel injection out of my car nearly 2 years ago, that has eliminated me tearing my hair out continually chasing one problem issue after another) that just frickin' works right, or at least function somewhere near right.

    I'm not surprised at all to read that a do-it-yourselfer has given a mechanic a run for his money, or outrun 'em by a mile. What sucessfully dealing with things like this, and many other things takes, I have always believed is simply a healthy attitude most especially toward learning, and to DIY and kick royal a$$, realizing that nobody else is going to value and take care of your things better than you. Rules I live by, that work damn good.


    In addition to the TFI-IV (PIP, SPOUT) page image above, some service check page images:





    Yes, the physical sensors and their function is important, but IMHO troubleshooting should always, ALWAYS begin with or include making certain that the simple basics like wire connections and continuity (opens/breaks, short circuits) are sound, because the basics are just as (or more) important so signals getting sent to and from sensors and back and forth between them and the computer are happening without fault of any kind and in every/any situation, if the control system is going to have a chance of working to it's fullest function for a good long time.

    Another thought... there isn't a layer of paint underneath that remote-mounted TFI module, is there?...
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 10-12-2017 at 11:42 AM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1966 Ford Fairlane sedan
    1966 Ford Fairlane GT
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham
    1980 Capri RS Turbo
    1971 Mustang
    1974 Pontiac LeMans

  19. #19
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Quite welcome, and, no offense taken. I thoroughly understand the frustrations of trying to understand/maintain/fix and have a multiply-dependent-sensored system of control (that I deem entirely unnecessary for correct or near perfectly efficient internal combustion, hence me tearing electronic fuel injection out of my car nearly 2 years ago, that has eliminated me tearing my hair out continually chasing one problem issue after another) that just frickin' works right, or at least function somewhere near right.

    I'm not surprised at all to read that a do-it-yourselfer has given a mechanic a run for his money, or outrun 'em by a mile. What sucessfully dealing with things like this, and many other things takes, I have always believed is simply a healthy attitude most especially toward learning, and to DIY and kick royal a$$, realizing that nobody else is going to value and take care of your things better than you. Rules I live by, that work damn good.


    In addition to the TFI-IV (PIP, SPOUT) page image above, some service check page images:





    Yes, the physical sensors and their function is important, but IMHO troubleshooting should always, ALWAYS begin with or include making certain that the simple basics like wire connections and continuity (opens/breaks, short circuits) are sound, because the basics are just as (or more) important so signals getting sent to and from sensors and back and forth between them and the computer are happening without fault of any kind and in every/any situation, if the control system is going to have a chance of working to it's fullest function for a good long time.

    Another thought... there isn't a layer of paint underneath that remote-mounted TFI module, is there?...

    The remote TFI is on a heat sink and the heat sink is bolted with one bolt to the radiator support. It is painted. On the opposite end of the TFI extension harness there is a ground screwed into the distributor on one of the TFI mounting holes in the flat face the TFI would normally mount.

    In the past Ive found that code 41 occurs when the O2 isn't grounded properly. I did a check yesterday and traced the O2 ground to the back of the head on the passenger side and the engine ground strap to the same head but in another bolt hole. I had thought they were piggy backed to the same spot but they are not.

    I do have a suspicion that they didn't scrape the paint off the head when they placed the grounds there. I cant see behind the motor and the space behind it is almost impossible to get my hand into especially on the passenger side with the AC and heater hoses and such. But Im gonna make an effort today to try to remove those bolts and clean the back of the head with sand paper and put them back in.

    Also the factory placement for the O2 ground is supposed to be on the driver side head. not sure if any difference would be apparent but just for the sake of mimicking the stock set up Im gonna try to move the ground to the other side.

    I did get a new Motorcraft O2 and I know throwing parts at it isn't the fix but I do feel better removing the Denso and keeping as many critical sensors Motorcraft as I can get.

    The code 18 in CM has come and gone for as long as Ive had this car. I replaced the 22k ohm resister twice and verified correct resistance multiple times.
    Last edited by fgross2006; 10-13-2017 at 08:23 AM.

  20. #20

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    How was the TFI relocation done? Was a factory TFI harness spliced in or was it an aftermarket/home-brew harness? The factory shielded the PIP leads to prevent interference. Does your harness have the appropriate shielding?

    Most remote mount TFI setups used a "black" module which relies on the ECU to set dwell. ECU's in cars that originally had "gray" TFI modules send out a 50% duty SPOUT signal and the TFI module determines it's own dwell. If a black TFI is used in place of a gray one then there is no dwell control. The coil will be charging 50% of the time, regardless of engine speed. That could definitely burn out a coil and/or module, even brand new Motorcraft parts.

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    I will point out that no specific comments about any presence or use of hygiene products and then always starting with me are being made. None. Happy Friday.... lol.

  22. #22
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrriggs View Post
    How was the TFI relocation done? Was a factory TFI harness spliced in or was it an aftermarket/home-brew harness? The factory shielded the PIP leads to prevent interference. Does your harness have the appropriate shielding?

    Most remote mount TFI setups used a "black" module which relies on the ECU to set dwell. ECU's in cars that originally had "gray" TFI modules send out a 50% duty SPOUT signal and the TFI module determines it's own dwell. If a black TFI is used in place of a gray one then there is no dwell control. The coil will be charging 50% of the time, regardless of engine speed. That could definitely burn out a coil and/or module, even brand new Motorcraft parts.
    The TFI harness is the original. It was long enough to snake around the other way and move it to the grille. It just long enough to plug the TFI in. The connector was replaced with an aftermarket one. When I got the car the TFI connector was shot. Crusty connector, dry rotted wire casing and all the wires were exposed. The only thing added is the custom made extension that connects the PIP to the PIP connector prongs on the TFI. Its got shielding and a ground.

    I got the kit from FatFoxx who now sells the kits on LMR.
    https://lmr.com/item/FF-423706B/must...-86-93-423706b

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by fgross2006 View Post
    The remote TFI is on a heat sink and the heat sink is bolted with one bolt to the radiator support. It is painted. On the opposite end of the TFI extension harness there is a ground screwed into the distributor on one of the TFI mounting holes in the flat face the TFI would normally mount.
    I'm not certain it could be a problem, but have read that paint can hinder the heat transfer that the goop is supposed to help between bare metals such as when the module's factory location is on the distributor... maybe defeating the purpose of the cooler location remote mounting...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1966 Ford Fairlane sedan
    1966 Ford Fairlane GT
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham
    1980 Capri RS Turbo
    1971 Mustang
    1974 Pontiac LeMans

  24. #24
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    I'm not certain it could be a problem, but have read that paint can hinder the heat transfer that the goop is supposed to help between bare metals such as when the module's factory location is on the distributor... maybe defeating the purpose of the cooler location remote mounting...
    I can clean the spot where th heat sink mounts the radiator support. certainly cant hurt.

    But I found this today when I investigated the O2 code 41 issue.

    Melted connectors and wires. The 2 way connector that is supposed to have 1 wore to the O2 and the other to the engine block for ground had only the ground still connected. the male to female connectors melted right in the middle and let the positive line to the O2 fall out.

    What I don't understand is how was this ever supposed to function correctly? Ford designed this setup to have the O2 wires run through the hottest most volatile part of the engine. the exhaust pipes. How is this ever supposed to not burn out?

    I know I can get an after market female 2 prong connector, but the male connector is original to the engine harness and wasn't melted last time I checked when we dropped the motor in. I hope theres an aftermarket male connector because the chance of finding this on ebay are zilch.

    Im gonna try to string this in a way that the connector doesn't fall behind the motor again but that still doesn't help me to protect the power lead that has to run down there to get to the O2.

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    This may or may not have to do with the car bucking. I wont know till I remedy it. but it has to be dealt with ASAP

  25. #25
    FEP Power Member fgross2006's Avatar
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    Just to follow up, I replaced the 2 prong female connector. Was not able to get a replacement male connector this weekend but I will have one by the end of the week. I tried to do a repair and use the partially melted male connector and tapped it up.

    The single prong O2 sensor connector broke. The wire was exposed right at the base and it finally broke away from the connector. I tried to solder it back on but after running the car I still got a code 41.

    Also no surprise that the new strand of wire I ran down to the O2 melted after just a half mile run to warm up the car. I have to be creative and find a path to run the wire that doesn't let it get near the back of the engine.

    In the meantime, I will rewire the new 2 prong male connector in as soon as I get it. The O2 connector will have to be cut off and crimped with a butt connector until I can find a female single prong connector which seems to be a non existent part.

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