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  1. #1

    Default 1985 Ford CFI to Carb conversion

    Has anyone done this conversion for the 1985 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 CFI to a carb conversion? The CFI sucks ass. I'm done messing with it. I'm running the AOD tranny.
    I have done some research and found that you need to swap the intake and carb, but also the distributer, coil, and potentially the fuel pump.
    What size carb? I'm thinking 550 to 600CFM.
    I heard you can use a Duraspark dizzy, but not sure if its vacuum advance or what....What years can I get this from?
    I've also read that you can possible reuse the in tank fuel pump and regulate it down to carb level psi's, what PSI? What do you do with the return?
    What Coil? How am I wiring the distributer?
    What am I doing for the tranny kickdown?
    Anything I'm missing?

    I haven't found anything that explains all that's needed in detail, only bit and pieces.
    Last edited by Hawkeye; 10-03-2017 at 06:17 PM.

  2. #2
    New User Bison's Avatar
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    I swapped my fuel injection of my 92 Lincoln motor to carb. I'm running a 600 cfm Holley 4bbl, my new distributor was one I got the local NAPA store, just make sure it has a steel gear if your block has a roller cam in it. I still have the stock duraspark setup with vacuum advance, and am running a Summit Racing fuel pump with a fuel pressure regulator at the shock tower, pressure is at 7 psi. My '83 GT has a 4spd so I don't really know what kick-down, but I would guess that you can just find one for a carbed car of the period with the same automatic. Hopefully someone can chime in on that part.
    Foxes:
    1983 Mustang GT--Forum Outlaw
    1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
    Other Fords
    1955 F100 351W
    1998 Ranger

    "Pink isn't well, he stayed back at hotel."

  3. #3
    FEP Senior Member dtmilsap's Avatar
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    Lokar makes a transmission kick down, you can find at lmr, cj pony, American muscle and lots of other parts supplier's for mustangs.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

  4. #4

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    First of all, congratulations on your decision. You won't be disappointed. You will be pleasantly surprised at all the dead-nuts reliability, efficiency, and performance that you have been missing. An easy and inexpensive step-by-step (using the original TFI ignition coil) on how to get rid of all that garbage begins with post #63 in my build thread, in the red link below in my signature. I'm not running a 5.0, but that matters not, as it's simply a matter of fueling and ignition, and you could plop a 2 barrel onto that intake manifold if you wanted to. Anyways, at least 600cfm. Get a Duraspark II distributor from 1985 or prior (as far back as approximately 1975 will work), and as mentioned above, if you've got a roller cam, get an '85 distributor with steel gear or get a steel gear onto an older distributor in place of it's cast iron gear. As for fuel pressure, 5-6psi is what's needed, and that's not, IMHO, safely done with the high pressure pump... have a look at my thread, that lists a low pressure pump part number that is fairly easily put into the hanger in the tank, and a simple trouble free way of also utilizing the car's return line for pressure regulation as well as nice cool fuel always being delivered to the carburetor. Whichever carburetor you get, yes, hookup for the AOD's cable is necessary. I think my adventure explains all that's needed in detail, and it has and is all working great nearly 2 years later now. If not specific to what you're doing or want to do, feel free to ask away. Good luck with it and let us know how it's going.
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 10-03-2017 at 07:57 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    IMHO, If its CFi already, convert it to port EFI.

    90% of the stuff is there already.

    See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ersion-on-ford

    I love carbs, but the do minimum is actually EFI.

    Mikes 2-bbl 4412 part number 2300 series 500 cfm Holley conversion with Duraspark just happens to work fine.

    his build up http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...e-build-thread

    For CFi to 2-bbl swaps

    FEP board member never gave a great 5.0 CFi write up too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tu_...ature=youtu.be

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...98-1985-ltd-lx



    He's posted a youtube video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tu_...ature=youtu.be

    Quote Originally Posted by never View Post
    I made this for my 85 LTD LX...longtube headers to 2.5" into single 3".





    https://youtu.be/-tu_dB1Q7Og

    Just a guess but it seemed like too much exhaust for the mild roller 302 that was choked with CFI. Had issues with the car but the engine now has a carb and is going into a Marquis wagon, along with the exhaust.

    Quote Originally Posted by never View Post
    Or carbed. Either way is an improvement on the CFI. And though I went carbed on my LTD LX, I think 86+ EFI is the way to go.

    He has a You tube link on the CFi with a roller cam 1989 5.0 and 3" exhaust.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...98-1985-ltd-lx





    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...e-of-the-Carbs
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...b-swap-dilemma
    http://www.foxtbirdcougarforums.com/...arb-conversion

  6. #6

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    Thanks guys. I plan on gathering some parts and once i get that far, I'm sure I'll be back for questions along the way.

  7. #7

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    I'm pretty sure that you will need some kind of resistor in the wiring on the positive side of the coil. Either the resistor wire or an older style ceramic ballast resistor. I think I used an old Pontiac one that I had laying around. I also used my old CFI coil, it worked fine. When I get a chance I'll try to send you some pics and info on the wiring, I know how much of a pain it was to do so I'll pass on the knowledge. The only thing I cannot help you on is the TV cable connection on the AOD, I already did the 5 speed conversion. It's not a kickdown cable, you will ruin your trans if you do not hook it up and adjust it correctly.

    Mike

  8. #8

  9. #9

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    Anyone put a new TBI on one yet? I know they are crazy expensive but in a year or so I may be tempted to add a sniper or something like that to mine.

  10. #10

  11. #11

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    So can anyone comment on the distributor. I have read you need a duraspark distributor, but I am unsure if I need a steel gear (roller cam?) for my CFI to Carb conversion. It's an 85 5.0 stock with AOD.

  12. #12

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    The stock CFI engines never used a roller cam, so you'd only need the '85 4V steel gear distributor if the
    engine was swapped to one with a roller. Some of the later '85 builds do have the roller-capable block,
    so if yours is the later version with the shorty headers, you might could swap one in.

    The later '85 CFI cars also did away with the two-fuel-pump system, so if yours only has the one pump,
    you don't want to use it to feed a carb. If it's the two-pump deal, the lift pump in the tank can be used,
    but you have to remove the external pump and patch up the lines. And rig up a way to activate the fuel
    pump relay.

    Particularly if you've got the later '85 version, I'm with Dean, you're gonna work harder to run a carb vs
    just grabbing up a stock SEFI setup.
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    2012 F150 S-Crew 4x4 5.0 "Blue Coyote"... 65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ...
    '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed... '71 Datsun 510 ...
    And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  13. #13

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    On my swap on my 84 (Cougar) with the 2 pump CFI, I used a Mallory 4309 regulator with bypass. Works great. As far as trigering the pump relay, I "think" I cut and grounded the tan wire where it connects to the ECM. Long time ago.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    84 Cougar, 90 HO with 700DP, Edelbrock RPM intake, 1.7 RRs, shorty's and SS exh, T-5, KC clutch, Hurst pro billet, line loc, 8.8, 4.10s, suspension mods....blah, blah,blah.

    71 Comet, 289, Liberty TL, 9", 6.00s, 11.9x @ 112.... blah, blah, blah.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    The stock CFI engines never used a roller cam, so you'd only need the '85 4V steel gear distributor if the
    engine was swapped to one with a roller. Some of the later '85 builds do have the roller-capable block,
    so if yours is the later version with the shorty headers, you might could swap one in.

    The later '85 CFI cars also did away with the two-fuel-pump system, so if yours only has the one pump,
    you don't want to use it to feed a carb. If it's the two-pump deal, the lift pump in the tank can be used,
    but you have to remove the external pump and patch up the lines. And rig up a way to activate the fuel
    pump relay.

    Particularly if you've got the later '85 version, I'm with Dean, you're gonna work harder to run a carb vs
    just grabbing up a stock SEFI setup.

    If they never had a roller cam, why are they offered as direct replacements?

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  15. #15
    FEP Power Member slow84lx's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Hawkeye;1866318]If they never had a roller cam, why are they offered as direct replacements?

    None of the CFI engines had roller cams in them from the factory regardless of V6 or V8 or car model engine was installed in. Many of the Mustangs made later in the model year had blocks that were compatible with the roller cam but with a flat tappet cam. If yours is one of these you can install a roller cam & lifters and a distributor with the proper gear as has already been pointed out.

    The parts catalogues are not to be trusted too much on newer cars. On the older cars it is not trustworthy at all. There is lots of good information to be had from this site if you are open minded to absorb it.

    I'm also in the camp of it would be much easier to make a change to SEFI than carb on a CFI car. Almost all of the parts necessary are already there. If you decide to go this route I have a home ported upper / lower intake taking up space in my garage that you are welcome to for the cost of shipping.

    If going carb you don't need a steel gear on your distributor with your current camshaft.

    Jonathan
    Last edited by slow84lx; 11-27-2017 at 10:05 PM.

  16. #16

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    [QUOTE=slow84lx;1866391]
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    If they never had a roller cam, why are they offered as direct replacements?

    None of the CFI engines had roller cams in them from the factory regardless of V6 or V8 or car model engine was installed in. Many of the Mustangs made later in the model year had blocks that were compatible with the roller cam but with a flat tappet cam. If yours is one of these you can install a roller cam & lifters and a distributor with the proper gear as has already been pointed out.

    The parts catalogues are not to be trusted too much on newer cars. On the older cars it is not trustworthy at all. There is lots of good information to be had from this site if you are open minded to absorb it.

    I'm also in the camp of it would be much easier to make a change to SEFI than carb on a CFI car. Almost all of the parts necessary are already there. If you decide to go this route I have a home ported upper / lower intake taking up space in my garage that you are welcome to for the cost of shipping.

    If going carb you don't need a steel gear on your distributor with your current camshaft.

    Jonathan

    Thanks Jonathan

    I am "open minded", thus the reasons for so many questions on this forum.
    Everyone keep saying that EFI is easier. I'm not sure why. The way I see it is i need the following components to switch to carb.

    Carb
    Intake
    Distributor
    Fuel Reg
    Tranny kickdown linkage
    I do have the single fuel pump in tank

    Could you comment on what a EFI would entail that would make it easier?
    Maybe I'm just comfortable with carbs and not EFI and computers....

  17. #17
    FEP Power Member slow84lx's Avatar
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    A few points toward SEFI vs carb:
    Your car is already set up with the same fuel system that is used on SEFI cars.

    Your car may or may not have the fuel pump eccentric on the cam to drive a mechanical fuel pump. Some do / some don't. To find out you have to remove the timing cover.

    If no eccentric you have no choice but to rig a low pressure and regulated to 6 psi fuel system. Some run this type of system without problems, many do have issues with fuel pressure until it is sorted out correctly. Just adding a regulator may not be enough.

    AOD transmission cable swaps right in with factory parts from an '86-'93 AOD car.

    Distributor from '86-'93 Mustang is easy to find, inexpensive, and reliable.

    Lots of technical info on the net to help you get it running smoothly.

    There are lots of points for either decision. Good fuel mileage and power can be made with either system. When set up correctly both systems are reliable, easy to drive, and fun to drive. I'm not really trying to sway you either way, just pointing out that the difficult parts of the SEFI swap are already on your car from the factory and a carb swap has to undo most of them. I've owned both carbed & fuel injected Mustangs, including my CFI car and I would go the SEFI route.

    Good luck with your car. There is a lot of support on this site whichever decision that you make.

    And I'm right there with you on the hateful feelings toward the CFI. No love for it at all from me.

    Jonathan
    Last edited by slow84lx; 11-28-2017 at 10:11 PM.

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Ford made the 1984 and 1985 situation for 5.0 CFi HO Foxes really simple. If you've got an 84 California 5.0 Thunderbird or XR7, then you'll have way more stuff to deal with.

    All the SEFi Speed Density pinouts are practically the same as the later Capri and Mustang 5.0 CFi HO; its only the ISC that needs attention.

    Due to the complication of rolling out the diagnostic gear from 1980 to 1982 before the EECIV came out, the early Feedback Carb and CFi EECIV's were renown as the most difficult to trouble shoot. The CFi HO is very, very simple, because it uses 99% of the SEFI systems, so any junkyard EECIV 5.0 parts, even MAF, and you can get it to SEFI in a day of work.


    The "bitchyness" of early CFi EECIV systems is because they mixed the old carb systems with the MCU, EECI-II-III systems, but had very different low voltage six pin diagnostic ports that allowed you to pull codes,

    you then had to understand how to manage it. A CFi has a choke pull down, and AOD, and no ISC/IAC stepper motor, but a TFi system with a spark control system for idle...those four things screws over everyone!

    That 1983-1985 area was a very difficult time, becauses what applies to MCU, EECI, II, III and IV are not always the same.

    1983-1986 Carb Fox 2.3's Rangers, F150's, and any of the Foxes with 3.8 or 5.0's with it were not as simple as the 1.6 and 2.3 EFi Turbo, or the EFi 5.0 truck and SEFi 5.0's. Even the Tempos, Topaz/Tracers and Taurus in line fours were most finickity. Whats more, the injectors between the single point CFi 2.3 OHV engines were different from the CFi 5.0's, and any two 2.3 engines could have MCU or EECIV, 2-bbl, 1-bbl CFi or 1-bbl carb. On the CFi 5.0, the HO was EECIV, the non HO5.0, it was still EECIII. Ford engineered to meet emissions, price and performance targets, and had the best Slicon Valley and NASA engineers to pull all this together...

    To this day, go to any Ford forum, and you'll get a boat load of info on how to do Nutters Bypasses on these "Spawns of Satan". Same with the MCU and EECIII.

    All because people don't understand that the EEC is


    1. an EGR/AIR only computer...it runs the Emission Control system, a big fat, simple EGR valve and a big nasty umpteen pound per hour air pump,

    2. it also tracks idle and

    3. Air fuel ratio, but cannot take it down and

    4. on all later systems, gives "confidence and supply" to the ignition system, but cannot take it down. The sensors feed all the other systesm; often via a knock sensor, that can pull spark, but not turn it off.

    Any one of these four systems trips a miss qued code, and it can only take the whole system down if a lot of other stuff happens.

    first by pulling the full quota of spark advance, which only in the case of F150 4.9 trucks makes its run like a dog,
    then sometimes it can't run O2 the normal open and closed loop,
    so it tries other stuff.

    The EECIV never fully cuts spark, as the early versions were fuel only.

    The "bus bar" four earth ECU operates like a urban distribution board, and if one system goes, then it monitors and decides on what to do given mutliple scenarios. Because EECIV progressed to lower voltages, its a lot more sensitive than the 1980-1984 EECIII 5.0 CFi engines, but even so, the idle is always controlled better with an EECIV CFi 5.0 HO

    No one likes big brother...the early EECIV's are a bit heavy handed.

    Even the EECIII was a fuel only computer, with some handshaked spark control, and an abilty to spike and reduce fuel, but only a system of conditional tests would ever take the spark system down.

  19. #19

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    Here's how I did it on my 85 LTD LX:



    I snagged a duraspark wire harness out if a carbed mid 80's Ford car from the junkyard. The colors will be different so go off the distributor and duraspark module wire colors. I think I mounted the box in front of the shock tower.



    Green wire goes to the negative side of the coil. I spliced into it in the harness below the MC.



    White wire goes to the "i" terminal on the starter solenoid. I ran a wire that went across the firewall and around the shock tower to the solenoid.

    Red wire goes to the ignition wire before the ballast resistor. I spliced into it near the booster.



    I wired in the ballast in front of the strut tower. I used some random one I had laying around.



    I used the factory TFI coil and harness so the tach would still work. The coil had no problems.

    The fuel pumps will work but you need to wire a switch to them. There's no computer signal to the relay so the switch is needed.

    I'd say that the carb conversion is a lot easier than sefi, people are forgetting that the battery needs to be relocated for that.

    Good luck man

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  20. #20

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    Oh and you seem to have all of the mechanical stuff down. I couldn't help you on the distributor gear part but you'll have to pull the intake anyway so you can check then.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by EXPOfoo85LTD_LX View Post
    Oh and you seem to have all of the mechanical stuff down. I couldn't help you on the distributor gear part but you'll have to pull the intake anyway so you can check then.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

    Wow this is awesome an exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks!!!!!

  22. #22

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    I'll take that nasty CFI stuff off your hands... PM me if you want...
    Jim DeAngelis
    Cornucopia of Useless Knowledge
    Connoisseur of Dearborn Ferrous Oxide
    '83 GT hatch, currently under the knife
    '79 Capri 2.3L n/a, Medium Copper metallic, survivor
    (bought from MRausch82)

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXPOfoo85LTD_LX View Post
    .......

    I'd say that the carb conversion is a lot easier than sefi, people are forgetting that the battery needs to be relocated for that.

    Good luck man

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

    Not true at all. My mate did an 86 SEFi swap in his 1979. Battery stays in stock postion.



    The MAF sensor cars are very limited in where the MAF and air box can go, but the whole manifold in the 1992 Mustang 225 hp and the later 215 and 235 hp Explorer 5.0 engines are able to be turned 180 degrees.

    So no battery swap is required. Its just the ISC wiring that needs Corrective action, 99% most of the 60 wire pinouts are perfect.


    The SEFi is easier, much easier, than the "carb" labotomy.

  24. #24
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    180 degree intake switch.

    possible because the EFi intakes, like V8 heads, are NOT handed....



    All the 1985 on 5.0 and 1988 on 5.8 EFi trucks had it




    All Australian Windsor 5.0 HO OHV's had the swap



    351 w by Jack Roush in the 1991 Melburne Showcar 5.8 liter Falcon


    The Lightening 5.8 truck too



    Stock Aussie Import Explorer V8 with intake swapped from factory, 1998 on wards AU Falcon/ Fairlane by Tickford FBT engine








    5.6 liter 342 cubic inch , 335 hp Aussie Import Explorer V8 with stroker crank, rods, pistons, and 80 mm MAF intake, 2002 Falcon Pursuit 250/ T3 Tickford engine





  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Wow this is awesome an exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks!!!!!
    No problem man! I know how it is to ask a question on here and get 101 responses with other opinions and bs, but not one answer to the question at hand. Trust me, this is a simple conversion that doesn't require a lot of modification, if any. I mean, in the end you can make anything work on any application in theory, it just depends on the persons skill level. Let me know if you have any other questions on the swap.

    Mike

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