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  1. #1
    FEP Power Member racerxmd's Avatar
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    Unhappy Disappointed To find I have a Flat Tappet mot in my '85GT!

    I started tearing into my new '85 GT to fix all the issues and leaks. When I finally removed the intake, my heart just dropped. I was for sure I had a Roller Motor! This motor ran very good and only issues other then the oil leaks was the carb was running to rich. There was also a good bit of slack on the timing chain. But All the spark plugs looked great! I recently purchase a good set of Edelbrock Performer heads that I was going to install on it after Duane Bush did his magic. So I think I will continue with the leak repairs mostly reinstalling new gaskets and seals. I will be cleaning everything up and paint the motor. Plan on selling it once I have finished. I think I will be searching to purchase a new 331 or 347 short block to drop in her.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Someone will chime in to confirm, I believe 85 had roller blocks and no roller hardware.
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  3. #3

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    Pretty sure '85 was the one year with a hydraulic roller cam and a carburetor, necessitating people finding/using a steel distributor gear for a Duraspark distributor to be compatable with a steel (as opposed to cast iron) roller cam if messing around between years or installing a roller block (and cam) into an older car... somebody obviously changed out at least the short block (or the camshaft) in your '85 car. I like flat tappets, and they work good like they always have. Disappointing for me is seeing the astronomical cost difference when buying a new camshaft and/or lifters.
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 09-25-2017 at 06:35 PM.
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  4. #4
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Cars ran for many years with flat tappets only. Me, I'd put the heads on, and drive it. Build a 331 on a stand to replace it for the displacement, not for the tappets. Just be careful to get oil with zinc in it.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
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  5. #5
    FEP Power Member racerxmd's Avatar
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    This is a Flat Tappet block right?

    Engine Teardown https://imgur.com/gallery/t3q6J

    Xxx https://imgur.com/gallery/uFzMJ

    Xxx2 https://imgur.com/gallery/ZDLUc

  6. #6
    FEP Power Member slow84lx's Avatar
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    Another vote for putting your heads on and running it. Nothing wrong with flat tappets, in fact, now would be a good time to slide a new one in there if you were of the mind to do so.

  7. #7
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Looks to me like the lifter gallery is drilled and tapped for the roller spiders, but a bit hard to be sure from the picture. The later pickup 302's used roller blocks, but with flat tappet cams.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  8. #8
    FEP Power Member racerxmd's Avatar
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    Guess I will pull one of the lifters and see for sure. If it is a flat tappet, can I just put roller lifters in the bores plus the spider and lifter guides?

  9. #9

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    I don't think it works out that way, but I'm no camshaft guru.
    See those nipple things on the block by "RT" and "22"? If those nipples are threaded, as in you can insert a bolt in there, you have a roller block.

    I personally ran a flat tappet cam/lifters/pushrods in my roller block until a month or so ago (here she is with Comp Cam 31-242-3: https://youtu.be/Kyb1CkikC1g)

    I bought everything for my original motor years ago. Once I sent it to get rebuilt so I could go hci, my machinist indicated it would need a good bore, and it would be best to go with a different block. Bought a good roller, but went flat tappet until recently when I bought a roller cam setup.

    This is it with the new cam https://youtu.be/zIjKzZoRqCg

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member mmb617's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racerxmd View Post
    Guess I will pull one of the lifters and see for sure. If it is a flat tappet, can I just put roller lifters in the bores plus the spider and lifter guides?
    If, as many have suggested it is actually a roller block even if it has flat tappets in it now, then your plan to add the dog bones and spider and switch to roller lifters will work.

    If it is a true flat tappet block then the lifter bores are shorter which is why you run the risk of the lifters popping out of the bores if you go the roller lifter route with dog bone and spider retention system. The only ways to safely use the non-roller block with roller lifters is either use link bar lifters or a reduced base circle cam.

    From what I've always been told if those nubs in the lifter valley are tapped for the spider bolts then you have a roller block even if it has flat tappet lifters in it now. The only way to know absolutely for sure would be to measure the height of the lifter bores and I don't know exactly what that measurement should be, but I'm sure somebody here does.
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  11. #11
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    The cam profile on a flat tappet vs a roller cam are quite different. Roller cams are designed to be followed with a roller lifter and are much more suited for roller motor operation.

    If you are not showing any signs of catostrohic failure from the flat tappet, my suggestion is run it.

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    Hard to tell by the pictures, but do the pistons have Ford in an oval stamped into them? 1985 was a one year piston design also...forged flat top with 4 valve reliefs. That is a roller block but it may have been rebuilt. Below is my oem factory short block when I had it tore down for a clean up, new freeze plugs, re-gasket, etc. and you can see the information I am talking about.

    Name:  Stang engine short block.jpg
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    Last edited by bwguardian; 09-26-2017 at 11:34 AM.
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  13. #13
    FEP Power Member racerxmd's Avatar
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    Mine looks exactly like that.

  14. #14
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racerxmd View Post
    Mine looks exactly like that.
    I don't see the dog bones for the roller lifters. It's hard to tell if the information is on the tops of the pistons because of the carbon. Look at piston #6 and #5 in my photo...
    HAD
    '82 GT monochromatic (red)...black cloth

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    '00 F350 two tone (white on silver)...gray cloth
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    '08 Taurus Limited ice blue...tan leather...daughter ride
    '08 Edge Limited white sand tri-coat metallic...tan leather...other daughters ride

  15. #15

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    Looks like a roller block with flat tappet cam.
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  16. #16
    FEP Super Member mustangxtreme's Avatar
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    I believe 85 GTs with an automatic ran CFI with a flat tappet cam in a roller block.
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  17. #17
    FEP Power Member racerxmd's Avatar
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    Roller motor is Confirmed!

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/ELXCXRXfTZkRueXa2

    .030 oversized https://imgur.com/gallery/6vkkh

    Is this a Cast is on or Forge?

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by mustangxtreme View Post
    I believe 85 GTs with an automatic ran CFI with a flat tappet cam in a roller block.
    ^^^^^Close....

    After 32 years there is still confusion. 1985 was the first year for the roller cam/roller block engine in the 5.0L Mustang but it was only used on carb/manual trans (5-speed) cars. All CFI/auto trans 5.0L had non-roller cam engine, however, some CFI/auto trans 1985 non-roller cam 5.0L engines were built using roller blocks. A non-roller (flat tappet) cam can be used in either a roller or non-roller block. All 1986+ Mustang 5.0L engines were roller cam/roller block.

    BTW the easiest method to determine if you have a factory roller cam or non-roller cam 302/5.0L on an assembled engine is to remove one valve cover, loosen one rocker arm, and remove/measure one pushrod:
    6.25 inches = roller cam
    6.8/6.9 inches = non-roller (flat tappet) cam

    racerxmd,
    Was your 1985 GT originally a carb/5-speed or CFI/auto trans?

    What is your block casting number and casting date code?

  19. #19
    FEP Power Member racerxmd's Avatar
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    Not sure. All I have is this pic:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/61Dh5Hl1dGKkYnI13

  20. #20

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    Very hard to tell from that pic but if you have a 1985 roller block it should be E5AE. I cant read the date code.

    Was your 1985 GT originally a carb/5-speed or CFI/auto trans?

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by racerxmd View Post
    Roller motor is Confirmed!
    I dont see roller lifters in your pic

  22. #22
    FEP Power Member racerxmd's Avatar
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    It's a roller block with flat Tappet cam/ lifters.

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racerxmd View Post
    Roller motor is Confirmed!

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/ELXCXRXfTZkRueXa2

    .030 oversized https://imgur.com/gallery/6vkkh

    Is this a Cast is on or Forge?
    You are going to need to look at the back of the piston to determine...but more than likely it's hyperutectic pistons.
    HAD
    '82 GT monochromatic (red)...black cloth

    HAVE
    '85 GT vert two tone (white on charcoal)...white leather
    '00 F350 two tone (white on silver)...gray cloth
    '00 Excursion Limited two tone (white on tan)...tan leather...wifes ride
    '08 Taurus Limited ice blue...tan leather...daughter ride
    '08 Edge Limited white sand tri-coat metallic...tan leather...other daughters ride

  24. #24
    FEP Power Member racerxmd's Avatar
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    Thanks. That is what I plan on doing since I will be r/r oil pan gasket.

  25. #25
    FEP Senior Member burntorange84's Avatar
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    Like Paul said, you could get a non-roller cam in a roller block in the automatics. The 84 cast (non-hypereutectic) leftovers had 4 eyed pistons as did the forged 85's. I don't think you got the forged pistons unless it had the 5-speed and thus roller-cam. Supposedly, some very early 5-speed models got the 84 slugs, but I believe it was still non-roller cam and even single exit exhaust. Check the buck tag to see what tranny you originally had. Somebody on here can check the VIN if you-re missing it. If it was an Auto, then you should have the cast slugs, unfortunately. The hyper piston use was in the early 90's stang.

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