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  1. #1
    FEP Power Member 86darkside's Avatar
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    Default 351 swap queations

    Got a 86 gt i want to go 351 route what are the do and donts by the way the car will be 95 street and track once in a while..oh and 5 speed.

    Can i use any 5.0 aluminum aftermarket heads...

    Can i use a 89 ...or93 cobra computer...

    Comments..?

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Pay attention to imbalance ratings. 351W use 28, 302HO use 50!

    ECU is coded for CID so a tune is needed. Big injectors and throttle body and MAF too. No point in a W without a cam designed for one.

    Heads fit but bolt holes get enlarged. Watch compression ratio.

    Even with convertible (1/2" drop) mounts a cowl hood is usually required.

    Good luck with that T5! Have it built to Z spec and one piece bearing retainer or sell it off for a TKO or T56. Be sure you use a great quality clutch. Low (numerically higher) rear gears and narrow tires to limit traction, control arms to limit hop/shake, etc all help.

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    bfm347 tips:-



    HOOD stock hood or cowl
    FUEL efi or carb
    EXHAUST stock or not
    DRIVELINE auto or manual, LMR 157 28oz flwheel, or does it have to be SFI rated for drag racing
    INTAKE EFi Lower intake is wider and 5.8 truck Fuel rails differ; 4bbl intake is taller
    SUSPENSION front sway bar required 1-1/4" front sway bar spacer to clear oil pan; SN95 sway bar mounts help
    OIL PAN stock 351 W Panther or oil pan swap custom aftermarket
    ACCESSORY PLAN a/c required?supercharger planned?

    other questions:-
    SD (speed density) or MAF (mass air-flow)
    are stock, convertible or LMR 351 swap "solid motor" mounts going to be okay?
    Is K- member spacing required? Steering Rag joint can intrude, accessories and header spacing differs depending.
    If EFi, Edlebrock 3848 elbow on 4bbl intake or stock GT40 intake
    TFI distributor mates to 351



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JIJMTFTBgM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zgGe2bfnK4

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Dog View Post
    As far as I know the 351 Crown Vics were all police packages and they came with variable venturi carburetor.
    I just figured with a low production run they didn't want to make the special lowers.
    Canuck CV's were 351 for many years, so the above is a great source for the sump.

    The EFI intake required is the expensive part in this if your raiding a parts supply.

    Quote Originally Posted by nelzfoxes View Post


    Quote Originally Posted by bmf347 View Post
    I have read through many who have been going through the same issues and questions with your 351w swap.... I decided to purchase a 351w from a lightning.... had fuel rails, distributor, intake, all accessories on the front with all the brackets..... just needs a 351 swap oil pan and some engine mounts. Looks like youre well on your way to getting all of your parts together though. Good luck! excited to see the end product. It will fit under the stock hood.... with the right modifications.
    And put the dawg on a chain.....
    Quote Originally Posted by montstr View Post
    Hello, figured I should say hi eventually, as I've had a Fairmont for about 8 years now, and have browsed occasionally but never became a member. So here I am! I'll start by posting a few pics of the Montstr from the last few years, and then I'll head to the Non Mustang section and put the rest of the pics there....if you want to see what I've done, you'll just have to go look! Justin

    Shortly after I got the car. It was a 2.3 3 speed floor shift car, factory buckets and no options at all...I immediately set upon sticking a 351w in it.


    351w with 5.8 4V HO air cleaner.


    SNUG! less than 3/16" clearance, but never touched!


    Picking wheels


    And after I decided on 1999 Crown Victoria handling package wheels, and decided to put some stripes on it. I basically wanted to make this car appear as a "what if SVO did a Fairmont?". People LOVED it!


    A nice Sunday afternoon.


    And a nice Sunday evening!


    And one of my favorite shots of the car


    And here it is playing with my 70 Chevelle Malibu 400 (big block 400) and my 7th Honda CRX, (sold, and haven't had a Honda since)



    Well, there's my hello! haha a very brief history of my Fairmont. I'll be putting a write up and pics of what I've done with the car over the last couple years, I'm pretty sure you'll be interested. Thanks for looking! Justin

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...11#post1424411

    Quote Originally Posted by bmf347
    Ya know... I caught a lot of flack for buying the complete Lightning drivetrain... But it's been a blessing in disguise... Came with all the wiring... Ecu... Accessories an brackets... And the headers that come on Lightnings fit just fine around my steering shaft... It's been a process but way easier than any conversion I've read about... I was gettin nervous about the swap too sn had my engine/trans sittin in the garage but then I saw lrs had some great stuff... Sealed the deal for me

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    For heads and cam, its what matches your goals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethyl Cat View Post
    I am considering a Pro Maxx head on my next build. I met the owner at PRI and he is very focused on making a quality product.

    A friend of mine helped him develop the BBC casting and when the finished product was made he took one and evaluated it. It flowed the numbers that were advertised, it was the correct hardness, the locations were correct and it weighed the same as the big name heads. (read it has all the metal in it). He also did the same on the sbc casting with the same results.

    It closely matches a AFR165 up to .500" lift then slightly out flows it. Granted it is a slightly bigger valve and port cross section so performance might be slighty down comparatively. I would expect great performance from it though.

    It outflows everything in Edelbrock budget offerings and keeps pace with a TFS 170 as well.

    If the quality is good for the price they sell for I am not too sure I will do many more iron gt40 style heads.

    Food for thought..... There are a lot of good choices out there.

    Steve
    Quote Originally Posted by boogiestang View Post


    I found a used set of Eldebrocks that were off a seldom used show car. Probably not the hottest set up but for the price I couldn't resist.

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    I would assume you are after some power and that's why you are going to the 351W based power plant.

    There is a FRPP W block out there that supports big bores. Forget boring 0.030 or 0.040 and adding stroke to land at 427. Try 460!

    Edelbrock makes a very nice EFI intake package for the W. Professional Products and Procomp have copied it too.

    A well selected split duration cam on a 408 can make north of 600HP in N/A form with as little as an AFR185 head.

    If I were building one for occasional use I would likely go to an aftermarket self tuning EFI and go out to 430 cid on a big bore block and use a fairly lumpy cam shooting for 600 HP at 6000.

    Daily driver would get port injection and a tuned A9L with big EV6 injectors and EV1 to EV6 wiring adapters. Cam would be less aggressive and a Viper spec T56 would go in for its 0.5:1 OD in hopes of salvaging a little distance per tank.

    And bring on the 315/35 zr 17 nittos on 10" wheels out back!

  6. #6
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    Find a 94+ roller engine from a lighting or a truck, pick a good 170cc+ aluminum heads and enlarge the bolt holes to 1/2". Pick an intake, GT40, Trick Flow, several makers for the 351w.. Then spec a custom cam for your parts and what you plan to do with it. Hydraulic roller since you went with the 94+ block. Throw $200-$300 worth of bearings, rings and gaskets in the engine and have new cam bearings put in and have it cleaned up and honed. For under $3000 you have a nice solid 400+ HP engine.

    You will need a new distributor, oil pan and likely headers. Make sure you have 92+ style motor mounts, and you still might possibly need a cowl hood, depending on intake choice.
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member mmb617's Avatar
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    My first question would be what's your budget? Even using a stock 351 you'll be surprised how fast the "little things" eat up money.

    A build like the one erratic50 outlines would blow through $15k or more in the blink of an eye. When you get into the world of big bore blocks and T56 transmissions you better be packing a fat wallet. If you are in fact bucks up this would make a sweet build for sure, but it's not realistic to most of us.


    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    I would assume you are after some power and that's why you are going to the 351W based power plant.

    There is a FRPP W block out there that supports big bores. Forget boring 0.030 or 0.040 and adding stroke to land at 427. Try 460!

    Edelbrock makes a very nice EFI intake package for the W. Professional Products and Procomp have copied it too.

    A well selected split duration cam on a 408 can make north of 600HP in N/A form with as little as an AFR185 head.

    If I were building one for occasional use I would likely go to an aftermarket self tuning EFI and go out to 430 cid on a big bore block and use a fairly lumpy cam shooting for 600 HP at 6000.

    Daily driver would get port injection and a tuned A9L with big EV6 injectors and EV1 to EV6 wiring adapters. Cam would be less aggressive and a Viper spec T56 would go in for its 0.5:1 OD in hopes of salvaging a little distance per tank.

    And bring on the 315/35 zr 17 nittos on 10" wheels out back!

    Now the plan Ourobus outlines here is a much more affordable way to go and still will give you all you'll ever need on a car that's mostly street driven. I'm even of the opinion that a T5 will live as long as it's not power shifted, even with occasional track use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ourobos View Post
    Find a 94+ roller engine from a lighting or a truck, pick a good 170cc+ aluminum heads and enlarge the bolt holes to 1/2". Pick an intake, GT40, Trick Flow, several makers for the 351w.. Then spec a custom cam for your parts and what you plan to do with it. Hydraulic roller since you went with the 94+ block. Throw $200-$300 worth of bearings, rings and gaskets in the engine and have new cam bearings put in and have it cleaned up and honed. For under $3000 you have a nice solid 400+ HP engine.

    You will need a new distributor, oil pan and likely headers. Make sure you have 92+ style motor mounts, and you still might possibly need a cowl hood, depending on intake choice.
    408/T5/3.73's

    We're not fast racers, we're more what's known as half fast racers.

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ourobos View Post
    Find a 94+ roller engine from a lighting or a truck, pick a good 170cc+ aluminum heads and enlarge the bolt holes to 1/2". Pick an intake, GT40, Trick Flow, several makers for the 351w.. Then spec a custom cam for your parts and what you plan to do with it. Hydraulic roller since you went with the 94+ block. Throw $200-$300 worth of bearings, rings and gaskets in the engine and have new cam bearings put in and have it cleaned up and honed. For under $3000 you have a nice solid 400+ HP engine.

    You will need a new distributor, oil pan and likely headers. Make sure you have 92+ style motor mounts, and you still might possibly need a cowl hood, depending on intake choice.
    I have heard those are good blocks to stay away from because they're prone to cracking around the cam bearings. I'd get a set of the Howards link bar hydraulic lifters and use an older block personally.

    Cale

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    The shop wont do an F4 rebuild if the cam bearing tunnels are cracked like they OFTEN do.

    The cost of any F4 block is the cost of checking that it hasn't happened already.



    If its not already cracked, you can of course use and abuse any F4 351 W, and it'll cope fine. The more expensive tie rod roller rockers are what id use if I really wanted to go roller rocker. But I'd look first at the 69-92 model year blocks. F4 blocks aren't useless or bad, you just need to know what happens if someone pops out the cam bearings during a rebuild. ,

  10. #10
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    While an F4TE block isn't near as strong as a 69-74 block, or even the non-roller blocks, they'll put a 302 roller block to shame. My last 418w build in a F4TE block made 600hp N/A to the tires, without a hiccup.. As with any build, you should check parts thoroughly, mag it at a shop etc.
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member mmb617's Avatar
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    The older blocks may be stronger but if you're building to HP levels where a F4TE block might not be strong enough then you are already at the level that should be using an aftermarket block anyways.

    When I did my 408 I specifically wanted a F4 block because I could reuse the lifters I already had and link bars would have added another $500 to the build.
    408/T5/3.73's

    We're not fast racers, we're more what's known as half fast racers.

  12. #12
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    ++ ^
    this!

    totally agree! Some builds are not about max anything. They are about getting to an end goal without breaking the bank.

    Any of us who have ever done any modifications to a car know how fast the ball can roll down the hill once the go fast bug is caught.

    I had a shelf FULL of parts accumulated over 15+ years yet my 1986 was nearly indistinguishable from stock from 1986 until last fall. At times I've started questioning my sanity for modding a 31 year old mostly original and all there car. But I have the stuff to put it back and the changes are part of making it my own..... and stop .... and turn in addition to going fast.

    Personally I've always wanted an official pace car replica with a 351W based stroker in it. Something to make it a ground pounder like the actual cars were.....

    So much love for these old cars -- and their pushrod V8's! There are too many young bucks that don't have a clue about what you can do with one if you are well read and mechanically inclined.

    love these builds - good luck! Don't forget to upgrade your brakes and strap in!

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