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  1. #776
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Got back and been going gangbusters ever since.

    Off to vegas for black hat. One of my least favorite places

  2. #777
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Never managed to get my block up on the engine stand before my son headed off to college. I guess I get to see if this old guy still has the combo of strength and smarts needed to get it on the stand by myself now.

    Found a few minor details of interior pictures of this 85 on another thread that hadn’t made it on this one yet.

    Trey is also in process on an 85 of his own in CO, it will likely see life under the hood before this one because most of my parts are in Austin at Trey’s shop! The fun of best laid plans and complicated logistics.

    Tempted to just toss in a junkyard or mc parts longblock but this car is an example of going to the side of excess on everything so that doesn’t really make sense. I really wanted to get to a few shows this year but it’s not in the cards
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  3. #778
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    bumping this thread to remind myself and Trey that there's still a sweet car that's trapped in its current state.

  4. #779

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    I check in every few weeks to see how the clone is coming along. One awesome build for sure. I’m sure the end result will be a show stopper. Have the Saleen stripe kit been installed? Or will that be much later? I remember in high school a friends dad bought a Saleen new in ‘86. Beautiful red car. My friend was allowed to drive it to school a couple Fridays each month and home football games. Even back then I knew these Mustangs were special and would always be so.
    Hope the build picks up pace soon. Look forward to next updates
    Ray

  5. #780
    FEP Power Member slow84lx's Avatar
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    James, the state of Texas is pleased to have a specimen such as yours here, trapped or not. It's turned out to be an awesome car and I would love to see it when it is finally ready. Keep it moving ahead, we are following along.

    Jonathan

  6. #781
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Haven’t bought the stripe kit - need to soon

    No real updates right now. Working to find time to catch up with Trey in his shop. I need the engine parts so I can assemble the 353

  7. #782
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    First update in 2020. The heads for my 353 have chambers that are way to small following them getting milled down during the valve job. I have not seen any variations in gasket thicknesses for big bore engines. This means either live with stupid high compression or get another set of heads. AFR 185’s are probably the correct answer ..... then l’ll have to use the left over Edelbrock heads for my 86GT build instead.

    The normal bore sizes have different gasket thicknesses and plus I haven’t ordered a rotating assembly for the 86 yet so piston selection can fine tune

  8. #783
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Aviation Fuel that's the ANSWER! No problem with high compression.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  9. #784

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    First update in 2020. The heads for my 353 have chambers that are way to small following them getting milled down during the valve job. I have not seen any variations in gasket thicknesses for big bore engines. This means either live with stupid high compression or get another set of heads. AFR 185’s are probably the correct answer ..... then l’ll have to use the left over Edelbrock heads for my 86GT build instead.

    The normal bore sizes have different gasket thicknesses and plus I haven’t ordered a rotating assembly for the 86 yet so piston selection can fine tune
    How do you know? Did you have them measured?
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  10. #785
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Well ..... I have a pretty good idea of what the depth was of the mark they milled off. I also know I was past 10:1 before because I jumped from 331 to 353 and still used an off the shelf 4.155 piston.

    when I did that before milling I knew I’d always have to run 93 octane instead of 91

    my dad and friends have encouraged me to track down a good 302 block or a 331 short block and go back to a 331 build pointing out that I’m just not going to drive this car that much - it’s build is so incredible and it’s becoming a bit of a show car. They are also in the camp of re-allocating the Gforce and using my T5Z here instead

    Sourcing that other bottom end would put the 353 short block towards my 86GT build. That car will get driven a ton once donor metal patches it up. And will likely see boost or spray or both.

    I need to decide if I’m going to spend the $$$ needed to build a 353 for both cars or do what’s probably wise and re-allocate some parts.

    Id hate to grenade an engine in my 86 because the factory block isn’t able to tolerate the amount of power I plan to install in it
    Last edited by erratic50; 01-09-2020 at 02:19 AM.

  11. #786
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    A member of a Facebook group that I’m in and I’ve helped out a lot with his computer problems mentioned that he has a stock shortblock from a 91 that he’s willing to give me for $50, I just need to come get it and his place is only about 100 miles away. Seems worthwhile.

    The motor needs everything gone through but ran fine when it was pulled. The best feature - it still has its original 4” bores. Seems like a good candidate to punch out to 4.030 and install a stroker kit with the right amount of negative CCs in the pistons combined with the right gasket thickness. It should allow me to have a do-over on the rotating assembly after the heads were shaved and get my compression back in check

    The 4.185 fire ring gaskets have one thickness so switching to a more traditional shortblock will make getting to the final compression numbers easier

    time to make some stuff happen

  12. #787
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm . . . . . So this would be engine option #4 for the Saleen Clone.

    I swear if I didn't know any better I would think this is one of my projects! I am seeing more and more why we get along.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  13. #788
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Its called Selective Availability. Think about 3 or 4 grades of pistons to suit an engine block that is machined out of the varying tolerances of a mass production "sausage plant".

    If you Select something that's Available, it always saves you a US ton on money on a building activity that had to go ahead anyway. Even if you end up with six engines blocks, six cars, and the project vehicle is cut and shut with doors and parts from three sources.

    Plenty of people in the 70's decried Ford not making racing engine blocks and Hi Po parts from standard US Cleveland or Canadian Windsor plants, but Fords plan was just to let the excellence of mass production win the dollar race, and the reliability and cheap access to a Model T or A or 32-48 Ford raft of parts means Foxes are really fun to build.


    Foxes are sort of like the old Model T's A's and B's.....just a chassis number, and your Doh! is Bread, Homer.

    Putting a bob either way is how to win big with these excellent Meccano cars.

  14. #789
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    yea trey - guess this does make #4 doesn’t it! Great minds think alike often I guess.

    I’ve always stayed with off the shelf parts as much as possible. The Dart was no exception.

    The 353 is configured with off the shelf 4.155’s that would have worked until unnecessary head shaving was done. They each had a mark on the surface of one cyl inside the cylinder - not on the mating surface. why it “had” to be planed off I’ll never know. But every pass is quite a few CCs and I really needed more to begin with!

    those Edelbrock heads are not big enough for a 353 really anyway. It wants bigger intake valve flow numbers and bigger runners.

    I can’t see putting the 353 in the Saleen when it’s a lot more show at this point. Granted it will for sure haul the mail and then some either way.

    I didn’t like that I changed from 331 to 353 after the custom cam was designed anyway. Now I can build what was designed and repeat with the 353 build for my 86.

    Really no down side to it big picture. I would have loved two Darts, but who can afford to put $10K each under the hood of two foxes at once! Talk to me 3 years ago I guess.... lol
    Last edited by erratic50; 01-16-2020 at 04:18 PM.

  15. #790
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Its all good my friend! I was just teasing you since the engine seems to be our Achilles heel in wrapping up the Saleen Clone. Besides I feel your pain, about the time I think I have my drive train sorted out, then suddenly I change directions or start thinking about something bigger/better/different/cooler/or just more expensive.

    I have been thinking about the new 2.3 Ecoboost in my dilapidated 84 SVO for awhile now since the car had an engine fire and all the wiring and fuel system have to be replaced . . . . might as well swap in something different right! NOOOOOOOOOO! I must resist just put it back stock . . . . or mostly stock . . . . or kinda stock . . . . OH HECK!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  16. #791
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Yea, the swap stuff is something I got over a long time ago.

    The amount of engineering that has to go into a combo to make it reliable is extensive. After about the 3rd or 4th Frankenstein I’ve had to try to keep going I have to have really big reasons to even consider one.

    I think part of the reason we’ve had engine holdups along the way is that I despise engine problems. I’d rather model it out 50 times and build one good one than deal with a problem

    The 40 over roller block likely would have been just fine but they let go at the worst possible times.

  17. #792
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Engine progress. A used 4” bore roller block is at the machinist getting cooked out and new cam bearings now

    Scat 331 kit with Mahle forged -6 cc pistons and TFS main girdle is in route

    it will get bored to fit the 4.030 pistons then line honed with girdle installed. Will get balanced with a new harmonic balancer and a new 22 lb steel flywheel

    it will get an MLS head gasket to get the compression back to just under 10.5:1

    Full roller rockers and rocker studs are in route

    new manual fuel pump and front cover are on hand

    Timing set, lifter selection, and pushrod length are still TBD.

    Engine is probably under a month from running if stuff comes together for once

    The merger of the automatic choke 1406 and manual choke1407 Edelbrock is another needed. Depending upon how things go the carb may need to get sent per previous offer to get setup

    Might just do what’s needed to make one work and handle tweaks with the car in the garage at home if a basic rebuild and fix per article doesn’t do it

  18. #793
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Also sourced a DSS road race oil pan and pickup

    trying to identify a good paint to use on the motor. Since it’s AL heads and intake but I don’t want it to be the first things that’s noticed .... the block and pan but also the AL heads and intake will get a cast appearing paint.

    so far I’ve looked at these

    Duplicolor EDE165107 ceramic cast coat

    eastwood brake paint is interesting too
    https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-br...SABEgLSJPD_BwE

    If the stock 85 valve covers don’t clean up then they will need some attention of some sort too

    The idea is for the motor to be new looking but stock looking .... or at least understated.

    The 750 Edelbrock will hide under a stock dual snorkel air cleaner

    Paint on the AL parts should make it so you don’t notice the speed parts until you look closely.

    The headers I bought for it look a lot like a factory header with the same idea in mind. We’ll see if they are big enough once it’s in the dyno cell

  19. #794
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Any properly applied paint will stick to the aluminum heads as long as they are prepped properly too.

    I have used regular automotive single stage and BC/CC for most of the 20 years on the engines in restored cars and trucks. This allows me to match the exterior color if wanted or accent it depending on the vehicle and the goal. Obviously if you want the OEM cast iron look, then a cast iron type paint may be the best option. Although keep in mind there is not a large amount of the block and heads truly visible in the engine bay of the average Mustang/Capri, especially when doing a stock type install. The dual snorkel covers a huge area of the engine bay, that plus the front drive accessories, the wiring, hoses, etc. doesn't leave much to see in regards to the block and heads. So don't know that a cast iron specific paint is an absolute necessity. Doesn't hurt, but again not a necessity IMHO.

    Personally I am not a fan of many of the rattle cans due to the non catalyzed nature of them. They look great to begin with, but long term durability seems to always suffer and ultimately they don't look so good after a couple of years. This is again another reason why I like the Single stage Urethanes and BC/CC paints with a catalyst.

    Eastwood Tunnel Ram paint color would be a great option. It has a nice iron metallic look to it and is a cool color, but unfortunately it is only available in gallon sizes, so that's excessive. https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-tu...llic-gray.html The pictures show it as more metallic than it sprays IMHO. We did a 1979 F350 Supercab in it for my buddy's son and it turned out really awesome. Gets compliments everywhere he goes.

    My buddy has used the Eastwood Engine paints on a few of his projects and likes them. I can't say personally since I haven't used them, but he's happy. IN that case, they do make a cast iron version. https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-ce...ron-quart.html

    Here is another option that I highly recommend. They make great products and have some really cool colors and finishes. Not an inexpensive option, but the coverage and durability is very good. https://www.cerakote.com/finishes/?t...gs&cat=CSERIES
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  20. #795
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    what about seymour's cast blast or alumi blast?

  21. #796
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Well ..... I could always just put the engine together and get it running then tackle the finish when we are working on the install.

    The pistons are fitted. The rotating assembly is about to get balanced.

  22. #797

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    Please record your bearing clearances on the mains & rods. I put together an Eagle 331 stroker kit with King bearings and she went together tight. I had to lap the thrust bearing quite as well. Wondering if the Scat kit is any better. Don't think I'll use an Eagle kit again. (cast crank, forged rods & pistons.)

    I used a C9 block and had to notch all 8 bores at the bottom for stroker clearance, I'm sure you already considered this.

  23. #798
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Well ..... I could always just put the engine together and get it running then tackle the finish when we are working on the install.

    The pistons are fitted. The rotating assembly is about to get balanced.
    Much easier to paint the block and heads before you start installing all the misc parts and pieces. Unless you are just going to spray everything the same color. I generally paint the block and heads before I install the freeze plugs, etc. so they stand out, then again I always use brass too.

    Cerrakote probably has the color you want. Good stuff and pretty decent to work with. You can spray it with a $20 Harbor Freight gun if needed.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  24. #799
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Intention — My bearings will be within 0.001 of max tolerance across the board. The front main will get done at 0.002 less than max to avoid the potential for knocking.

    A loose engine with good oil pressure revs free and ends up lasting longer in my experience. Learned this putting cars on a dirt track in high school.

    if stuff is much tighter then the journals will have to get polished or turned to the next size. Too tight is something I won’t tolerate.

    If I get time to thread the oil galley plugs I may go a lot higher on oil pressure than is considered normal. Again based upon my experiences with doing it in the past.

    So time will tell.....

  25. #800

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    Clevite has some bearings that give an additional .001" of clearance. I think they're the HX bearings? If I was to do it again, I'd get these bearings as well as a regular set to tune my clearances with just the bearing shells, rather than worrying about journal size.

    Clevite H bearings- https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cle-ms590h/make/ford

    Clevite HX bearings for .001" additional clearance- https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...90hx/make/ford

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