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  1. #676
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Mike - thanks for chiming in. Appreciate the kudos

    I’ve been thinking about sourcing a different carb for this build.

    I have a 600 Edelbrock on hand but factoring in the cam and heads and displacement I’m sure something different may be needed.

    Not hesitant to think a 600 can deliver the air flow needed

  2. #677

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    For comparison of a 600cfm to an ~800cfm, simulating an approximate combo, with an ~800cfm carburetor it would generate about +20hp and +20ft-lbs at the peaks, and about +10hp/ft-lbs each for average hp and torque across a 500-6500rpm range... a win win... with a 600cfm it will develop about 2.0"Hg manifold vacuum at the top end, representing a bit of a choke in the system IMHO... with ~800cfm, about 1.4"Hg will be seen up top, more in line with carburetor flow ratings (1.5"Hg for 4-barrels) and more importantly the carburetor not choking off power up top, as well as across the whole rpm range.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  3. #678
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Good info Mike

    The rotating assembly is setup to redline at 7000. I plan to shift just at where it stops pulling and by switching rotating assemblies mid-build I did cause myself a little bit of a crap-shoot. We'll just have to see what it does.

    The FTI cam was designed for a 331 with a 4.030 bore with the Edelbrock heads and intake going on to peak at 6500.

    The bore increase from 4.030 to 4.155 greatly un-shrouds the intake valves which will help offset the increased CID. The increase in cubes from 331 to 353 may therefore may not impact the rev range that much at all. Generally an increase in cubes would like that would drop the RPM range around 250 (or more) otherwise as everyone here pretty well knows.

    When I was doing a stock block I was planning on a 6500 stopping point. Mainly to keep it from splitting the block. With the Dart block it should be good to go well past that, but with the crank I selected the rotating assembly dictates stopping at a 7000 redline.

    If it was a drag oriented build and the cam targeted 100% VE, the CFM flow of the heads in race calculators suggests a 302 could get to 8700. That would mean a 353 would go to around 7450.

    So with the cam FTI whipped up and the rest of the parts, I suspect to get past 6000 land somewhere between 6000 and 6500 probably. If it runs to 6750 without nosing over too badly, it will see it.

    If the carb isn't sized and tuned well its going to yield poor performance and drivability which is something it may be worthwhile to work with Mike to address.
    Last edited by erratic50; 03-18-2019 at 02:18 PM.

  4. #679

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    Good big appropriate sized carburetors, even 1000+cfm Dominators, can be made to be very tractable and crisp and efficient even on the smallest of small block V8's. It's all about primary idle feed restrictions ideally sized for the primary throttle bore size (and bumpier camshaft duration affects needing a slightly bigger primary idle feed restriction size (as will that air-gap intake) than in a stock/mild combination), and as big a primary idle air bleed size as the combo will stand prior to any surging at level road load in top gear at normal highway speeds and with light part throttle acceleration that is still within the carburetor's idle/off-idle/transition circuit (the absolute greatest contributor to probably 95% of all normal driving modes... therefore the concentration on dialing it in returns the greatest benefits in how something runs and drives) area of throttle opening, prior to your foot more into it operating on the main circuit (jets). That is where you find the crisp peppy strongest light part throttle acceleration, and maximum fuel efficiency. All the rest, the much easier part, is proper jetting for WOT and just enough accelerator pump shot to get 'er going in a hurry if you trounce on 'er off the line.
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 03-18-2019 at 10:25 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  5. #680
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Not to change the subject as I hope to one day need a proper carb for this build .... will have to circle back to this

    The bigger problem right now is we don’t have the wiring we need to put the car together. One of the harnesses we tracked down is actually wrong — it’s for an 86, not an 85..... not sure how we overlooked it when it came but now it’s time to find the stuff to get it together.

  6. #681
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Machinist finished the shortblock and shipped it. It arrived safely at the local warehouse, picked it up on the pallet yesterday.

    Now to find time to build it

    still need a harness.....

  7. #682
    FEP Power Member dagenham's Avatar
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    I have the 85 harness you want but it's the one I removed from my Saleen after the fire. It's far from perfect with a lot of issues from before and after the fire.
    Current Mustangs
    1966 6 cylinder coupe
    1984 SVO 9W
    1985 Saleen #132

  8. #683
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    If it has the connectors needed and those are in good shape it might be the way to patch up what this car has and get the build moving.

    Clamping wires together then soldering and shrink tubing the area makes for a good 0 ohm resistance as full current repair if it can be done correctly. It’s only a valid way to go in some cases but when it works it works out well if the time is spent doing it right

    Hate to patch rather than replace but let Trey and I know what we would be working with via some pictures if you’re willing to sell parts for the build. Can work out a price etc from there.

    thanks for the reply!

  9. #684
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    The Good News is that I have sorted out the two missing pigtails needed to repair the existing harness.

    The 8 pin connector is WPT-678 (3U2Z-14S411-NNA)

    The 2 pin connector I have not been able to come up with any listings for.

    The bad news is it appears that neither connector is available at this time, so it appears I will have to make due with good used connectors. I have a good used 8 pin connector that will work. Unfortunately one of the clips is broken, but the other side is intact. I will do some more digging and searching through what electrical stuff I have and see what I can come up with over the next few days and go from there.

    Today was electrical wiring searching and digging mostly. Then I finished the dash hull repairs and painted the hull. I forgot to take pictures of the process. I will snap some tomorrow evening as I start reassembly of the whole dash. I also took a closer look at all the interior plastic parts. I am going to reshoot everything at this point. Too much sun fading, overspray from the previous Canyon Red paint job and just normal wear and tear. The interior panels overall are in great shape, but just need a fresh coating to look new.

    I also cleaned up and painted the headlight buckets and trim rings to ready them for installation into the headlight panel with the all new headlamps. I need to double check the springs and adjuster screws to make sure they are all in good condition before reassembly. Installed the new turn signal lamps in the front bumper and all new bulbs in the tail lights. So a busy day with a lot of the detail work needed before there is any real picture worthy stuff to see. Hopefully I will have some pictures tomorrow.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  10. #685
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Great progress! Still trying to locate a full harness

  11. #686

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    Erratic, I’m a newbie to the forum but wanted to let you know a guy in Reidsville NC is parting out an 85 GT due to rust. It’s on Craigslist. I couldn’t post a link for some reason. He may have what you are looking for? Good luck with search . Awesome build you have going.

  12. #687
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    Gents, I’ve been watching this build closely and would like to know what is the projected completion date for this build?

    Patrick

  13. #688
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cougman67 View Post
    Gents, I’ve been watching this build closely and would like to know what is the projected completion date for this build?

    Patrick
    Completion Date: 8 Months ago!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  14. #689
    FEP Super Member onetrackrider's Avatar
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    Current rides:
    89 LX 5.0, 5 -spd..the Lemon
    86 RS Capri 5.0 Auto...
    86 LX Colorado SSP 5.0 5-spd (Sadly Sold)
    85.5 SVO, Finally Got Boost
    83 RS Capri 5.0, 5-spd (another sadly sold)

  15. #690
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISTLCRUZ View Post
    Erratic, I’m a newbie to the forum but wanted to let you know a guy in Reidsville NC is parting out an 85 GT due to rust. It’s on Craigslist. I couldn’t post a link for some reason. He may have what you are looking for? Good luck with search . Awesome build you have going.
    Quote Originally Posted by onetrackrider View Post
    Thanks for the heads up, but my guess is looking at the MSD Ignition box the vehicle wiring has been cut up just like the current wiring. I could be wrong, but . . . .
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  16. #691
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Well .....that car doesn’t really look like a parts car imo. They should look here and see the four eyed cars that are getting fixed!

    Based upon the typical MSD install it’s likely the harness is butchered, unfortunately.

  17. #692
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Look at picture #3. Yes, the wiring has definitely been altered a bit.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  18. #693

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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    Look at picture #3. Yes, the wiring has definitely been altered a bit.
    Altered is one way of putting it. Guess I should have looked at the pictures a little closer. Lol.
    Have you guys checked with Prestige Mustang in Georgia? They are a Mustang “recycler”. You are doing some amazing work on the “clone “, Trey.

  19. #694
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    May need to do that. I only have one lead on a full harness right now

  20. #695
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    While the harness dilemma sorts itself out, I continue to try and move forward with other items that need to be finished. My paint supplier has decided to take 3 days to get me the interior paint I ordered, so that is holding up the interior trim that should be done and ready to go back into the car at this point, but . . . . . . . . . . .

    I decided I would install the new lights and get the headlamp panel ready for install into the front bumper cover.

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    Then I decided to put the dash back together after repairing a crack in the face of the dash hull. Things were going along just fine

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    Had all the wiring and duct work reinstalled and ready to begin fitting the stereo system. I rolled the dash assembly face up and notice that the crack had opened up again! So needless to say at that point, I set the tools down and walked away. I will strip the dash hull again and try repairing the crack a bit differently this time and hopefully it will hold. Hopefully I see some interior paint today so I can get something productive down!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  21. #696
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Two steps forward and one back. Sounds more than just a little bit familiar.

    Trey has a 750 CFM Edelbrock carb and we’ve decided we’ll swap carbs. The larger carb should be able to give the 353 what it wants— hopefully.

  22. #697
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Still looking for an 85GT 5.0 5-speed main harness

  23. #698
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Pictures of the 750 CFM carb. Need to swap it over to some form of automatic choke, probably electric.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  24. #699

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    I can't see clear in your picture, James, and don't shoot the messenger, and no offense to anyone intended... is it a 1407? Or 1410 or 1411?...

    If 1407, please see the following forum thread (linked below), specifically post # 6, with words from incredibly experienced people, regarding an inherent booster cluster cluster-bleep (pun intended) dysfunction with Edelbrock 1407's... long story, short, too-short Carter 625cfm booster clusters where the boosters do not reach down far enough to coincide with the smallest venturi diameters in the 1407, were put into the 1407, which can cause some hair-pulling inconsistent main circuit signal function issues, which would by default cause idle/transition circuit issues... no idea personally, I just learned of this, and thought about your build right away, and so I'm here yapping about this... but since booster clusters in them are modular, removable, maybe others of the correct length can be substituted in...

    https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/raci...ns--t2055.html
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 04-06-2019 at 12:51 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  25. #700
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    I can't see clear in your picture, James, and don't shoot the messenger, and no offense to anyone intended... is it a 1407? Or 1410 or 1411?...
    It's a 1407. The carburetor is one that I bought years ago for a project that I ended up not using it. I have no idea about the boosters or any issues with them. I will leave that up to experts such as yourself that enjoy dealing with these crazy things!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

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