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  1. #126
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info. I can't tell - does that setup require SSBC parts to complete or will the TBIRD / 93 Cobra parts work? Can't tell, sorry!

    Really appreciate all the help I've received gang!

  2. #127
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Build update!

    Bought more stuff in prep for drivetrain install!
    - pilot bearing
    - 1986 bellhousing
    - pivot stud
    - release fork
    - throwout bearing
    - carbon fiber blend clutch
    - high clamp force pressure plate
    - ultra light - (14 lb) - 50 oz imbalance flywheel.
    - ARP flywheel bolts
    - ARP pressureplate bolts and alignment studs
    - Astro performance one piece bearing retainer
    - 1352-169 T5, supposedly built with 91 gear kit.

    Obviously the T5 is not going in as is. It's going to get torn down for a detailed -- properly documented -- refresh. It has all the exterior evidence of being rebuilt the way it was suggested but after the number of 90+ T5's I've grenaded behind a mostly stock (at the time) 86 5.0 motor over the years there is no way I'm tempting fate behind any of the parts that may go into this car's engine compartment.
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    Last edited by erratic50; 11-20-2017 at 11:55 PM.

  3. #128
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    I've got a 30K mile 1990 HO motor on the stand. Pretty much everyone I know is trying to talk me into throwing my Edelbrock heads and Comp cam at the Saleen build instead of leaving the E7 heads and stock cam.

    We all know what setup will make more power...... And the car will never be stock again since everything is gone anyway. Etc.

    I've got plenty of money wrapped up in the go fast parts and they've just been sitting. If I can't find a shop to take on that rusty old 86..... well I don't want to think about that right now......

    Anyway - for a driver quality build that's just to take to a few shows and enjoy, to hop up ...... or not, that is the question.

    E7's with 1.7:1 rockers and the airgap will likely put out around 275-300 and pull past 6000.

    Edelbrock heads with the cam and airgap will likely put out closer to 400 and turn 6500.

    I've got no plans to do any more than an occasional track day. If drivability suffers significantly I'll be unhappy, but heads without doing a little something with the cam is mostly a waste of money.
    Last edited by erratic50; 11-21-2017 at 02:14 AM.

  4. #129
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Since the car is already Racecraft suspension dropped I've also added 87+ Saleen offset rack bushings to the build.

    In addition, 84-86 SVO spindles. I will swap to low friction 94+ balljoints in front and use SVO to SN95 balljoint adapters on factory control arms. This is being done to give an increase to the front brake size to 11" and improve the steering Ackerman while staying 4 lug and stock appearing. I might go X2 if the frontend is higher than I want after the engine is installed.

    Exact front and rear rotor and disc setups are TBD, but nothing exotic is planned.

  5. #130

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    You are definitely getting after this project. I've had my 85 GT in my garage for 3 years now. I sanded one of the doors yesterday. Progress....at a snail with a prosthetic leg pace. lol. I did get my engine back from the machine shop though. Motivating.

  6. #131
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    I spent most of my time on the cars I've helped repaint on a rolling tool bench sanding the sides, and a bar stool sanding the roof. Hopefully you can find a way that's comfortable that allows you to work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    -- James

    Favorite thing I’ve said that’s been requoted: “"40 year old beercan on wheels with too much motor"

    My four eyed foxes:
    "Trigger" - 86 Mustang GT - Black with red interior. 5.0 T5 built as Z. Original motor ~1/2 million miles. 18 yr daily, 10 a toy
    "Silver" - 85 Mustang Saleen 1985-006? (Lol) Rare 1E silver GT / charcoal interior. The car is a little bit of a mystery. Current project bought as a roller, tons of Saleen / Racecraft pedigree

    Also in the stable - my son’s car. 1986 Mustang GT Convertible. Black/Black/Black conversion. 93 leather. VM1 ECU. T5Z

    past foxes -
    1989 Mustang LX Sport 5.0 AOD white/tan black top. Once I ran this one down I caught a wife.
    Wife also had a 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe in the 90's.

    I'm a four eyed pride supporter, are you? Become one today!
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/payments.php

  7. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    I spent most of my time on the cars I've helped repaint on a rolling tool bench sanding the sides, and a bar stool sanding the roof. Hopefully you can find a way that's comfortable that allows you to work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I've got a rotisserie and all the parts I can take off the car are off the car. Nothing but a bare shell right now. Plan on having everything ready for paint NLT April 2018.

  8. #133
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Good luck with it!!

  9. #134
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Went shopping for more hardware. Anyone who has good bolts and doesn't keep track of them is in for a shock! I just spent $200 on all of the various bolt kits needed to install motor and trans. And guaranteed I'm forgetting about something!

  10. #135
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Went shopping for more hardware. Anyone who has good bolts and doesn't keep track of them is in for a shock! I just spent $200 on all of the various bolt kits needed to install motor and trans. And guaranteed I'm forgetting about something!
    That is why I have boxes and buckets of most of the hardware I have removed from totalled Foxes over the years!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  11. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Went shopping for more hardware. Anyone who has good bolts and doesn't keep track of them is in for a shock! I just spent $200 on all of the various bolt kits needed to install motor and trans. And guaranteed I'm forgetting about something!
    I am definitely not looking forward to that day! lol

  12. #137

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    Yeah me too, I keep ALL the bolts I take out. May never need them but there here if I do. I have one drawer in my tool box that is nothing but sorted oem bolts

  13. #138
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I just helped my buddy sort thru a bunch of hardware for the 86 SSP he bought from E2ZZGLX (Skip). I pulled everything out of the plastic bin and told him what all but 3 misc bolts were. He couldn't believe I could tell what everything was by just looking at it. I told him that if you taken enough of these cars apart and put them back together over 30 years and sometimes you remember stuff.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  14. #139
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    That's amazing! I could do that for sure with clutch and transmission and stock brakes. Probably with intake too, but not a lot of other areas.

  15. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    I spent most of my time on the cars I've helped repaint on a rolling tool bench sanding the sides, and a bar stool sanding the roof. Hopefully you can find a way that's comfortable that allows you to work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hey Erratic, I've been curious about the above quote. I mentioned a prosthetic leg but that was just saying a snail with a prosthetic leg is quicker than I am. I just wanted to clarify that the reason I'm slow is because of me and not any physical issues.

  16. #141
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Finally have a four spoke momo in hand. The metal and padding is great but the leather could be better. It has a pre-stitched leather wrap on it that gets contact cement glued into place. Not sure what will look right, but I'm looking for a replacement.

    Why momo that was on the 86 and not wolf that was on the 85? The wolf wheel the 85's actually had is harder to find. It uses an oddball column adapter kit that's even more difficult to find and expensive-- costs more than the wheel!

    In contrast, the momo column kit was relatively inexpensive ($100 shipped) and readily available off the shelf still.

    In the end my build will use a correct appearing Momo and an original to 86 Saleen "Ford" horn button.

    could use help finding a good leather wrap for the four spoke wheel.

  17. #142
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Hard to believe 2017 has nearly evaporated away. Lots to do at too little time to do it remains!
    -- James

    Favorite thing I’ve said that’s been requoted: “"40 year old beercan on wheels with too much motor"

    My four eyed foxes:
    "Trigger" - 86 Mustang GT - Black with red interior. 5.0 T5 built as Z. Original motor ~1/2 million miles. 18 yr daily, 10 a toy
    "Silver" - 85 Mustang Saleen 1985-006? (Lol) Rare 1E silver GT / charcoal interior. The car is a little bit of a mystery. Current project bought as a roller, tons of Saleen / Racecraft pedigree

    Also in the stable - my son’s car. 1986 Mustang GT Convertible. Black/Black/Black conversion. 93 leather. VM1 ECU. T5Z

    past foxes -
    1989 Mustang LX Sport 5.0 AOD white/tan black top. Once I ran this one down I caught a wife.
    Wife also had a 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe in the 90's.

    I'm a four eyed pride supporter, are you? Become one today!
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/payments.php

  18. #143
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Looking like unless I can find a shop in the Omaha NE area that can work on it that this one is not going together this spring. Been stupid busy with work and can't find a spare minute to even think about getting the motor ready to drop in.

    Frustrating, really want to get this car running and driving!!

  19. #144
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    started with an initial very serious conversation about farming out the build. I'm looking forward to the follow-up in the near future.

    I scored a full set of locks. Ignition and doors. Also NOS correct for 1985 key blanks.


    As a reminder for myself...... I need

    An ignition coil and module
    steel gear for the 83 dizzy or core exchange it for an 85 with steel
    starter
    alternator (possibly even do a 3G conversion?)
    AC compressor, lines, etc.
    confirm the smog delete pulley is correct as the airgap is a non-EGR intake.
    ideally, high flow cats that don't require an air pump
    shorty headers
    exterior trim for the doors
    Saleen decal kit
    front cover an pump eccentric for an 85 302 with mechanical fuel pump
    hoses
    belt
    battery
    Lug nuts and new tires for my 16" mesh wheels
    8.8 rear-end rebuild and 3.55 ring/pinion install kit
    -- crush sleeve eliminator - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/yga-55040
    -- carbon fiber locker rebuild
    -- ring/pinion swap kit with all bearings and seals.

    lower tubular control arms




    as mentioned below..... bought
    4 lug front rotors and bearings that fit 87-93 GT (and also my SVO spindles)
    New brake hoses and brake calipers for front
    T-bird/Cobra style 4 lug rear disc brakes with adapter brackets
    94 balljoints
    MM SN95 to SVO balljoint adapters
    Last edited by erratic50; 01-28-2018 at 04:13 AM.

  20. #145
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Parts list updated based upon Trey's input. Any other thoughts gang?

    The end goal for braking on my Saleen clone is 60-0 in 105 or less feet. The stock 85 style stuff just won't do so I went shopping for brake parts to complete my 4 lug 4 wheel disc setup.

    Surgery will start with SVO spindle to correct Ackerman since I'm swapping spindles to increase to 11" front brakes anyway.

    For those who haven't looked at this in detail before, warning- there will be a little bit of sticker shock in all of this.

    Of course most everything on the car currently is low mileage and nice - good parts for a correct restore perhaps. Or $0.10/lb for scrap. lol.

    The rear disc conversion for 4 lug is available as a complete kit in Mustang track-width from Northern Race Cars
    http://www.northracecars.com/Brakes.html "Complete kits without axles" $599 + $41 shippingI'm looking at that one for a few reasons. Its slightly less expensive than the kit Trey suggested and it uses off the shelf turbo coupe brake parts instead of something I'd have to get through the brake manufacturer.

    The kit Trey found is http://ssbrakes.com/i-10093936-reard...s-a112-93.html

    Down side to turbo coupe kit is that it doesn't come with rear slotted rotors. Those are available here https://www.andysautosport.com/produ...e__T54-55.html but cost another $155.00.

    Without further discussion -- here are the Maximum Motorsports parts I am looking at:

    HB-263 HPS Hawk Brake Pads, 1987-93 5.0L Mustang V8, front $73.97
    • Compound: HPS (F)
    ================================================== ============
    $665.47

    There is an SSBC kit that comes with slotted rotors and pads for front for $231.61 each. Their description says the pad compound is "performance brake pads" that is all it says. https://www.andysautosport.com/produ..._A2360005.html Probably not worth the gamble given its unknown compound??

    I am thinking I might also need a larger bore master cylinder but I think it might be worth a shot trying the 85's factory unit. Maybe.

    update: I bought the inner wheel seals and inner/outer wheel bearings and some plane-jane 87-93 calipers from parts geek. (Used 60's instead of 73's because the big SVOs are too large for use with TBird rear disc brake setup) Bought National bearings and seals with Centric fully remanufactured calipers with steel pistons for $142.95.

    For the front brakes I did find some old Baer kits that whack off the ears and go with a mounting system that's towards the center and extends out with a 4 piston caliper but they pretty much bank and they are no longer made so they would have to be sourced used.

    My question to my friends at FEP is two-fold

    #1 - If I go forward and buy all of this stuff, is there anything else that you can think of that I am missing?
    #2 - Based upon your experience is there something else I should look at or somewhere else I should shop for the parts? Always good to save a little money without sacrificing the part quality if I can.
    Last edited by erratic50; 01-28-2018 at 02:57 AM.

  21. #146
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I see no reason for the ball joint dust boots unless you just want the Prothane version. The OEM Ford SN95 ball joints come with quality boots as is. Never really had any issues with them myself.

    You can crunch the numbers to verify what size M/C bore you need with your setup, but I would most likely recommend staying with the stock unit (assuming it's good) and see how the brakes "feel". Obviously you need to make sure you have enough M/C to power your brakes and I believe with stock 60mm front calipers you should be fine. For most people the brake pedal "feel" is such a huge issue. Better to start off with a known quantity that doesn't cost you additional money and then adjust from there if needed.

    Visually there is little to no difference for the SVO calipers over the 87-93 V8 calipers when installed. Unfortunately "good looking" brakes are not much of an option with the Fox specific equipment. Not a big deal if you are running the Enekei/ARE/Riken style mesh wheels as you really can't see the calipers anyway. Same goes for the brake rotors. Nothing wrong with slotted brake rotors, but if you are doing it for "Bling" factor than it's a waste of $$ IMHO.

    No reason to run the SVO 73mm front brakes unless you are going to run the huge bore SVO rear calipers too. The 73mm front calipers are needed to balance the huge rear calipers and vice versa. Basically either run the full SVO setup or ignore it entirely. That's the only reason my 85 Road Racer has the full SVO setup front and rear right now. I had the setup sitting on the shelf and didn't have all the parts for a full on SN95 setup. So for now I am running the SVO setup until I have the funds for improvements. (Which will actually be StopTech front calipers and SN95 rear )

    The Baer system was the biggest improvement you could make using stock parts many years ago. It was always an expensive option, but it worked. As you stated, they don't make it anymore, so used is the only option. I am sure someone out there has a kit sitting on a shelf, but finding it could be the problem. You might trying checking out some SCCA A sedan forums/boards and maybe some NASA American Iron too. I would think they would be the guys that might have used the setup years ago and then upgraded to SN95 or Stoptech. Good Luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  22. #147
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply. It seems like I am probably headed down the right path staying with the GT style stuff given the use case.

    couldnt care less on looks as they are hidden by mesh wheels.

    slotted rotors is all about the right equipment for generating consistent brake force. I can't justify putting a $1000+ 85 correct 3 piece Saleen facia on the front of a car that won't stop!

    What my son pointed out to me is the parts are way cheaper than crash repair parts and labor. And that's without factoring in the Saleen stuff.

    I guess I just need to wait for a sale and pull the trigger.
    Last edited by erratic50; 01-27-2018 at 10:31 AM.

  23. #148
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    I just updated the brake parts list based upon Trey's input.

    I am tempted to go X2 balljoints on the Saleen to drop the roll center but its probably already low enough with the Racecraft parts and I am thinking that X2s could mess with bump steer in a bad way when used with an SVO spindle.

  24. #149
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    Do not over think this .
    clowns to the left of me , Jokers to the right

  25. #150
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    update: I now have all of the stuff required to do this part of the job on its way

    I bought the inner wheel seals and inner/outer wheel bearings and some plane-jane 87-93 calipers from parts geek. (Used 60's instead of 73's because the big SVOs are too large for use with TBird rear disc brake setup) Bought National bearings and seals with Centric fully remanufactured calipers with steel pistons for $142.95.

    I bought the Northern Racing complete 88 Turbo Coupe rear brake kit that comes with fox width brake adapters. $640.00 shipped.

    I bought the cart from MM above. $665.47 shipped.

    I bought the LMR proportioning valve plug $22.00 shipped
    Last edited by erratic50; 01-28-2018 at 03:57 AM.

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