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  1. #26
    New User Dave9052's Avatar
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    My 83 GT vert. has yellow lines and black letters. Build date of 6-23-83 it has 49,900 original miles. Still has original belt, hoses, wires only plugs have been changed; nothing else under hood. I am 100% sure yours is correct
    Last edited by Dave9052; 09-17-2017 at 07:50 PM.

  2. #27
    FEP Supporter rodster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 83GTJIM View Post
    That is cool to see a 5.0 in a 83 Ford that isn't in a truck. What was Ford thinking running a serpentine belt that didn't include the PS? Looks like a lot of parts are different on the EFI vs HO 5.0. Looks like the AC compressor might be different too.

    Generally I am seeing the all yellow cap on some 83's but more so earlier cars, the yellow striped cap on later 83 cars and newer (83-85). The black cap with yellow lettering seems to have first made an appearance in 1985. Of course, there are always exceptions but based on low mileage original owner cars this is what I am finding with limited search so far.
    Ford thinking?



    83 was a big transition year so maybe it was a mad scramble to get cars out the door? Now you have me thinking and I have to see how 84's+ were set up?

    Build dates for my 83's with yellow caps are
    4/22/83 Lorain
    5/12/83 Atlanta



    Quote Originally Posted by Dave9052 View Post
    My 83 GT vert. has yellow lines and black letters. Build date of 6-23-83 it has 49,900 original miles. Still has original belt, hoses, wires only plugs have been changed; nothing else under hood. I am 100% sure yours is correct
    Original battery? Sounds like a great car! Have you posted any pictures of it?

  3. #28
    New User Dave9052's Avatar
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    ini
    Quote Originally Posted by rodster View Post
    Ford thinking?



    83 was a big transition year so maybe it was a mad scramble to get cars out the door? Now you have me thinking and I have to see how 84's+ were set up?

    Build dates for my 83's with yellow caps are
    4/22/83 Lorain
    5/12/83 Atlanta





    Original battery? Sounds like a great car! Have you posted any pictures of it?
    I should have said battery was also replaced there are some pics in new users intro. under Dave9052

  4. #29
    FEP Supporter rodster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave9052 View Post
    ini
    I should have said battery was also replaced there are some pics in new users intro. under Dave9052
    I guess we should have saved our original batteries huh?

    I'll check it out, thanks...
    Rod

  5. #30

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    That has me thinking.... I had my original 86 battery replaced in 1992 at a Coop station that closed down shortly there after. Last time I looked about 3 years ago it was still sitting with several other old car batteries in their battery recycling area between buildings under a shed style roof.

    My bets are the plastic is too brittle to get to safely come apart by now but that is the same place I used to get batteries to rebuild from. I'd get 3-4 identical cores and make one good battery. I would carefully disassemble and rebuild adding more lead to the best plates still there until I had what I needed. Tedious and extremely dangerous. Goggles, Gloves, protective suite, and baking soda.. the stupid crap you do when young!

  6. #31
    FEP Power Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 83GTJIM View Post

    That is cool to see a 5.0 in a 83 Ford that isn't in a truck. What was Ford thinking running a serpentine belt that didn't include the PS? Looks like a lot of parts are different on the EFI vs HO 5.0. Looks like the AC compressor might be different too.

    Generally I am seeing the all yellow cap on some 83's but more so earlier cars, the yellow striped cap on later 83 cars and newer (83-85). The black cap with yellow lettering seems to have first made an appearance in 1985. Of course, there are always exceptions but based on low mileage original owner cars this is what I am finding with limited search so far.
    The Big Sterling Foxes were a heavy duty line, which up until 1981 still used York A/C units; then the 5.0 got withdrawn, and then added again. It missed out on the 100% serpentine supply to all seven ancillaries. More like a half breed EECIII 5.0 in the Lincoln. They stayed EECIII for Cali market Tbirds too.

  7. #32
    FEP Supporter roush235's Avatar
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    Original battery: you need to fetch it, even if it isn't rebuild-able. If it is in any reasonable condition, it has big value for use in MCA Unrestored cars.
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
    79 original owner six cylinder coupe
    MCA Gold Card judge for 3rd Generation cars

  8. #33

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    Good to know! I'll see if it's still around.

  9. #34

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    Well written reply Bob... we just need to get more Foxes on the show field if we want more detail specific class judging sheets.

    Typically the judges will ask the owner questions if they are unsure or as stated before, "give the car the benefit of the doubt" and make a note on the judging sheet. I always get asked about specific details on my SVO.
    86 SVO 2R Comp Prep
    86 SVO 9L Comp Prep

  10. #35
    FEP Supporter roush235's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluesfannoz View Post
    Traveling long distances across the country with our cars is not in the cards for a lot of us at this point. But yes agree the more shows we can attend and assist with judging, the better the rules will get. So guys look for a national show in your area and volunteer to assist in judging. My car is nowhere near judging class ready so at the recent Grand National in KC I just put it in a show only class so it still got seen. Then volunteered to help with judging.

    I wanted to second Steve's comments. He is spot on with his comments and recommendations.

    So..... If you have an interest in restored (and unrestored) cars, first of all you should become a member of MCA. There are three tiers of membership, ranging from $25 to $50/year. In addition to things like parts discounts and access to Ford X-Plan pricing, I consider it an "investment" in the hobby and evidence of my support. (I have gained many, many other benefits from being part of MCA, but that is a discussion for another day.)

    Next, commit yourself to volunteering to help by participating in the MCA judging community.

    How do you get started in this area?

    --The first step is to pass an online test. The test is open book and not time limited. It covers technical info but also MCA procedures and show etiquette.
    --Next, come to a show and volunteer to help. Maybe you can even bring your car, but if not, just come yourself. You will be assigned to be a scribe at a show. Working with experienced judges, you will be amazed at what you learn. Assuming you have basic skills, after one or two such scribe duties the Assistant Head National Judge will sign off for you to be a Certified Judge.
    --Then, keep coming to shows and keep judging. After the Assistant Head National Judge is confident in your skills, you can then become a Gold Card Judge (like Amy did this year).

    We need more participation, and more judges!! I have met several of you, and I know you know your stuff. MCA needs your knowledge!! It would be great to have more judging teams who have a cross-section of knowledge (e.g. .... what is the correct color for a power steering pump lid on an 83!!).

    For people who have interest in these areas and then started working in the judging community, essentially everyone I know has found it an interesting, educational, and rewarding experience.

    So, if this is of interest to you, I'm always glad to provide more info. Just PM me.
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
    79 original owner six cylinder coupe
    MCA Gold Card judge for 3rd Generation cars

  11. #36
    FEP Supporter Saturn V's Avatar
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    Between this thread and 84StangSVT's thread on the recent KC show, I'm thinking about driving down to the McAllen show in March. I have an interest in participating in some way, so I'll send an email to you, Bob.
    Present: '84.5 Mustang GT T-top, '06 Mazdaspeed6
    Past: '79 5.0 Capri, '86 Buick GN, '90 Mustang GT, '92 SHO, '95 SHO
    Browse cover pages of my Fox Chassis related library

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by roush235 View Post
    I wanted to second Steve's comments. He is spot on with his comments and recommendations.

    So..... If you have an interest in restored (and unrestored) cars, first of all you should become a member of MCA. There are three tiers of membership, ranging from $25 to $50/year. In addition to things like parts discounts and access to Ford X-Plan pricing, I consider it an "investment" in the hobby and evidence of my support. (I have gained many, many other benefits from being part of MCA, but that is a discussion for another day.)

    Next, commit yourself to volunteering to help by participating in the MCA judging community.

    How do you get started in this area?

    --The first step is to pass an online test. The test is open book and not time limited. It covers technical info but also MCA procedures and show etiquette.
    --Next, come to a show and volunteer to help. Maybe you can even bring your car, but if not, just come yourself. You will be assigned to be a scribe at a show. Working with experienced judges, you will be amazed at what you learn. Assuming you have basic skills, after one or two such scribe duties the Assistant Head National Judge will sign off for you to be a Certified Judge.
    --Then, keep coming to shows and keep judging. After the Assistant Head National Judge is confident in your skills, you can then become a Gold Card Judge (like Amy did this year).

    We need more participation, and more judges!! I have met several of you, and I know you know your stuff. MCA needs your knowledge!! It would be great to have more judging teams who have a cross-section of knowledge (e.g. .... what is the correct color for a power steering pump lid on an 83!!).

    For people who have interest in these areas and then started working in the judging community, essentially everyone I know has found it an interesting, educational, and rewarding experience.

    So, if this is of interest to you, I'm always glad to provide more info. Just PM me.
    I'm really considering this next year. I am a member of the MCA and I know we have a National here in Lincoln and I think it could be fun to help judge. It would be even better if I had a chance to scribe on our cars. I might have to check out the online test here soon.
    Last edited by 84StangSVT; 09-20-2017 at 09:05 AM.
    Brock
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    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  13. #38

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    I'm just looking at my parts list and task list on my 85. Boy that thing is going to be a pile of work to get running, cleaned up inside, and painted before the MCA.

    I must say I am humbled and in awe of how much support and help I've received so far with tracking down hard to find four eyed Saleen parts. It is a real testament to the amount of love there is for four eyed foxes by this group and also for the Saleen flavor that are among the most rare. Its heritage is unknown - a mystery that will get solved. It will be in its proper place in the context of history before it's all done. And also a tribute to the four eyed Saleens and all who are fans.

    I have to give a lot of props to everyone on their attention to detail. A bit of show judge in all of us for sure.

    UPS man is here..... better go see what just showed up.

  14. #39
    FEP Member 1986Saleen's Avatar
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    Last edited by 1986Saleen; 09-22-2017 at 08:12 AM.
    1986 Saleen #145
    46k miles 98% original.

    I'm all for helping the helpless, but I don't give a rat's ass about the clueless anymore.

    Previous: 79 Cobra, 82 GT, 83 GT, 85 Twister, 85.5 SVO, 86 GT, 87 GT, 91 Saleen, etc....

  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1986Saleen View Post
    Until KC, my judging sheets has been fairly consistent at National shows, with -2, -1, -7 (-5/6 battery), and now, -25.

    I had never had more than 1 point deducted on the body & paint, yet was -8 in KC. Most of it I can attribute to the harsh lighting, which judges were WARNED to take into account. That didn't happen consistently. While the "flaws" have been there all along, they were never "noted" by ANY other Gold Card Fox & Saleen judges in any of the previous 3 Nationals (and the solo KC judge had previously judged the car).
    I think you hit the nail on the head with the above statement in bold red. The lighting SUCKED inside. Areas seemed dim, lighting seemed spaced wrong and the type of lamps they were using changed the color of the cars depending on the angle. It took me considerable time to take some of the photos inside as the lighting made getting a good photo hard, especially the cars that were around the ends like yours was.

    I thought your car looked great and hopefully the next show will be a bit better on the scoring.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  16. #41

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    I was at MCA. I saw your cars. They looked outstanding! For what it's worth 1986Saleen your car was one of a few among my favorites.

    If I were to offer any ideas on trying to even the color out under such harsh lighting, it would be to use a color wax product immediately after full buffing and before your normal waxing.

    Or, Ming here in Omaha offers a finish that dust doesn't stick to and dirt falls off of and has the same coat evening properties. What's nice about Ming is that I can spray off my truck with a hose and it dries clean and spot free like it had just been polished. Makes for a Lincoln truck that is always a real head turner.

  17. #42
    FEP Senior Member 83GTJIM's Avatar
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    Let's dream for a while. Let's just imagine that MCA asked this group to break down the 15 years of Foxbody Mustangs into different classes. What would they be? Post your responses. Since this is FOUR EYED pride you can lump 87-93 together OR feel free to break them down too.
    MCA #110307
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    83 GT T Top
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    84 20th Anniversary T Top GT350
    84 GT Convt

  18. #43
    The Dominator Guy! bluesfannoz's Avatar
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    I would say this would be the bare minimum.

    79 Pace Cars
    79-82 Cobras/Mustangs & GT
    83-84 Mustangs
    85-86 Mustangs
    87-93 Mustangs
    93 Cobra
    Steve
    "Taillights in Your Face Jack? You've just been Dominated!"

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    Current Stangs: 85 Black T-Top Dominator GT # Link to Restoration Thread #
    Previously owned:
    85 Dominator GT RIP 1995, 85 Predator GT, 83 Dominator GT, 82 Mustang GT

  19. #44
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    Might have to add
    84-86 SVO
    Cobra R, only mention this because I did have to judge one once.
    Saleen already has its own sheet.
    Fox Body/3rd Gen MCA Gold Card Judge
    84 SVO 24K miles, 85 Mclaren Capri Vert.
    88 Mclaren Mustang Vert 20K miles, 89 Mustang LX Sport Vert, 92 GT Vert.
    03 Mach 1 7900 miles, 69 Mustang, 67 Mustang, 14 Mustang CS/GT,
    15 F150 FTX Tuscany, 16 F250 Crewcab, 67 Tbird 47K miles

  20. #45
    FEP Supporter roush235's Avatar
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    Steve

    Submitted as a true Four Eye enthusiast!!! Per Jim's note, Aero cars lumped together (except for the 93 Cobra), Four Eye cars separated.
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
    79 original owner six cylinder coupe
    MCA Gold Card judge for 3rd Generation cars

  21. #46
    The Dominator Guy! bluesfannoz's Avatar
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    I knew I would forget some! Yes definitely the SVO's in their own group.

    I would include the COBRA R under the 93 Cobra Differences could just be noted from a regular COBRA.

    Yes the Saleens are already separate. I believe the Special Editions should be in their own classes. Full documentation of their differences should be there.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinK View Post
    Might have to add
    84-86 SVO
    Cobra R, only mention this because I did have to judge one once.
    Saleen already has its own sheet.
    Steve
    "Taillights in Your Face Jack? You've just been Dominated!"

    # Link to Facebook Dominator Mustang Fans # # Link to Facebook Predator Mustang Fans #

    # Link to Facebook Twister Mustang Fans #


    Current Stangs: 85 Black T-Top Dominator GT # Link to Restoration Thread #
    Previously owned:
    85 Dominator GT RIP 1995, 85 Predator GT, 83 Dominator GT, 82 Mustang GT

  22. #47
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    The problem is, other than events like Mustang Week and Foxtoberfest you will RARELY get enough Foxes to break them out in these dream classes. I think the basis should be 79-86 and then 87-93 without a doubt. Then if registration warrants you should be prepared to break out the 93 Cobra's, SVO's and Saleens. That is how we treat it at the Shelby Spring Fling. Beyond that I doubt you will ever see more than a few 79-81 Cobras, 82 GT's or 83-84 Mustangs to warrant their own classes.

    However, this is NOT to say the judging rules should not be updated accordingly as nuances are discovered as this thread is originally about.
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

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    '85 GT Black - 16k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
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    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey - 16k miles @ counting.

  23. #48
    FEP Member 1986Saleen's Avatar
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    79 Pace Cars
    79-81 Mustangs
    82-84 Mustangs
    84-86 SVO
    85 Mustangs
    86 Mustangs
    87-89 Mustangs
    90-93 Mustangs
    93 Cobra
    I'm OK with combining classes, but judging sheets/rules need to be split as per above.

    Saleen Mustangs need split up as well:
    84-86
    87-89
    89 SSC
    90-91
    92-93
    Once again, I'm OK with combining classes, but judging sheets/rules need to be split as per above.
    1986 Saleen #145
    46k miles 98% original.

    I'm all for helping the helpless, but I don't give a rat's ass about the clueless anymore.

    Previous: 79 Cobra, 82 GT, 83 GT, 85 Twister, 85.5 SVO, 86 GT, 87 GT, 91 Saleen, etc....

  24. #49
    FEP Member 1986Saleen's Avatar
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    One of the current problems in the MCA Saleen class (and it would apply if you have a special Dominator/Predator/McLaren group too) is that there are VERY few knowledgable Saleen judges at MCA shows. The guys who KNOW Saleens have cars there, and can't judge since it's all one big class. Most of us even carry documentation, but that is never taken into account or examined, for fear that the judge might present himself as less than knowledgable... Deducting for No underhood plate on a 1986 car is a good example - "the book" with Saleen-issued spec sheets was literally 10 feet from my car. You'd also see things like Owner's jackets listed on the spec sheet, which was instead threatened as a deduction for displaying...
    Last edited by 1986Saleen; 09-22-2017 at 08:35 AM.
    1986 Saleen #145
    46k miles 98% original.

    I'm all for helping the helpless, but I don't give a rat's ass about the clueless anymore.

    Previous: 79 Cobra, 82 GT, 83 GT, 85 Twister, 85.5 SVO, 86 GT, 87 GT, 91 Saleen, etc....

  25. #50
    FEP Senior Member 83GTJIM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sowaxeman View Post
    The problem is, other than events like Mustang Week and Foxtoberfest you will RARELY get enough Foxes to break them out in these dream classes.
    Agree 100% but we are just dreaming.

    84-86 SVO for sure.
    Saleens are broken down into their own classes just at suggested by 1986Saleen.

    Some of my thoughts as I try to prepare my list:

    If 79 Pace Cars get their own class, do 20th Anniversary GT350's? I think I have to go with probably not since so many PC's were built compared to 20th Anniversary cars.

    I want to put 82's in with the 79-81 cars but since it was the first year of the GT I can also see it in the 83 and on class. The 2v V8 makes me want to keep it with the earlier Cobras. But if the engine makes the difference, what the heck do you do with the 86 GT?

    And since we are dreaming, how about a specialty class with Predators and Dominators combined? Poor Steve gets no recognition for his Dominator by MCA.

    I think Bob(?)-1986Saleen could not have said it any better-

    I'm OK with combining classes, but judging sheets/rules need to be split
    79 Pace Cars
    79-81 Mustangs
    82-84 Mustangs
    84-86 SVO
    85 Mustangs
    86 Mustangs
    87-89 Mustangs
    90-93 Mustangs
    93 Cobra

    I think this could be a goal.
    Last edited by 83GTJIM; 09-22-2017 at 09:27 AM.
    MCA #110307
    "Saved" 25k mi 83 GT - http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ght=Wrecked+GT
    83 GT T Top
    83 GT Convt
    84 20th Anniversary T Top GT350
    84 GT Convt

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