Close



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 50
  1. #1
    FEP Senior Member 83GTJIM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Springfield MO
    Posts
    688

    Default For the restoration purists- PS pump question

    I received my judging sheet today from the MCA show in Kansas City Aug 24-27 and I am questioning some of the things they noted. I think the problem is probably from trying to apply a standard across all third generation cars rather than recognizing production nuances as the years went by. As one example, they docked me for "PS Pump Cap not OEM Ford- missing yellow lettering". I am fairly certain that my car retains the factory original power steering pump and cap. Here is a picture of my engine bay and you see that the cap is back with a yellow stripe on the grip/handle. By the way, my car is a late 83, build date of 07/19/83

    Name:  IMG_1117.jpg
Views: 163
Size:  123.4 KB

    Today I noticed that EmeryGT350 posted a picture of his headers and his 84 had the same cap:

    Name:  PS cap.jpg
Views: 163
Size:  97.7 KB

    The rules state:
    Power Steering Pump, Pulley & Hose: Must be as original. Pump is natural aluminum. Reservoir black plastic on '79-'88 & off-white plastic on '89-93. Pulley semi-gloss black. Mounting bracket natural. Black cap with yellow lettering. Cobra R will have black PS cooler mounted behind fog lamp opening.

    I would love to hear from anyone-newer and older cars- with what they have. I haven't researched it a lot yet but as I recall the yellow lettering maybe was on later model cars. To further mix things up look at this engine bay from one of the magazine shoots back when these cars were new- this cap is completely different!
    Name:  IMG_0685.JPG
Views: 164
Size:  60.9 KB
    Last edited by 83GTJIM; 09-13-2017 at 06:01 PM.
    MCA #110307
    "Saved" 25k mi 83 GT - http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ght=Wrecked+GT
    83 GT T Top
    83 GT Convt
    84 20th Anniversary T Top GT350
    84 GT Convt

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member STANGMAN116's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    DENVER CO, the 303
    Posts
    2,528

    Default

    Attachment 115396
    Here is my 83 im pretty sure its all original, looks just like yours

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member STANGMAN116's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    DENVER CO, the 303
    Posts
    2,528

    Default

    And i just looked at my 84 predator and it looks just like yours as well

    Edit, i just looked at my 83 capri and it has black cap with yellow letters??
    Last edited by STANGMAN116; 09-13-2017 at 08:00 PM.

  4. #4
    The Dominator Guy! bluesfannoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Osage City, Ks
    Posts
    2,159

    Default

    I've checked pictures I have of cars from 83-85. The 83 and 84 cars are like yours. 85's have the yellow wording.
    Steve
    "Taillights in Your Face Jack? You've just been Dominated!"

    # Link to Facebook Dominator Mustang Fans # # Link to Facebook Predator Mustang Fans #

    # Link to Facebook Twister Mustang Fans #


    Current Stangs: 85 Black T-Top Dominator GT # Link to Restoration Thread #
    Previously owned:
    85 Dominator GT RIP 1995, 85 Predator GT, 83 Dominator GT, 82 Mustang GT

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member Gemini1999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Citrus Heights, CA
    Posts
    4,464

    Default

    I guess it's supposed to look like this:

    https://lmr.com/item/LRS-2380025/For...-Reservoir-Cap

    Name:  lrs-2380025_9876.jpg
Views: 140
Size:  27.3 KB
    Bryan

    1983 Mustang GLX Convertible
    1984 Mustang Turbo GT Convertible

  6. #6

    Default

    My 86's ps cap looked mostly like the one from lmr when I bought my car back in 1992. That being said, mine was not identical to that. It was exactly the same as the one on my 1989 and is exactly the same the cap on my son's 1986 now.

    I agree on the tank stuff. I believe it's correct to the best of my knowledge.

    Good luck getting a black one though from the mcparts store. I ended up with an 89+ style pump on my 86- oh well. Underdriven and filled with synthetic and with a better cooler the mcparts pumps even are silent -- for a change.

    I agree- the rules are wrong on caps. Some of our beloved foxes had differences.
    Last edited by erratic50; 09-14-2017 at 12:12 AM.

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Greenwood, IN
    Posts
    3,080

    Default

    The picture you posted above from a magazine (the silver car) is not an '83 based on the flex tubes of the snorkels. Looks like an 82 GT engine based on the lid...but odd that it says 4V? Also has that big vacuum canister behind the PS shock tower...which I believe is the cruise module used up thru 83 or 84....definitely not in '85

    My '82 has a beige cap just like that picture.

    My '83 GT that I had several years ago and my '85 GT now (both all original) have the same reservoir and cap like yours....yellow on the fins only, not the letters.

    My 82
    Name:  DSC_0021.jpg
Views: 128
Size:  155.3 KB

    My 83
    Name:  SAM_0053.jpg
Views: 129
Size:  134.3 KB

    My 85
    Name:  SAM_0466.jpg
Views: 129
Size:  143.3 KB
    Last edited by sowaxeman; 09-14-2017 at 10:24 AM.
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 GT Med. Red - 14k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '85 GT Black - 16k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
    '92 LX 5.0 Calypso - 10k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,700 Mile Original Survivor
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey - 16k miles @ counting.

  8. #8
    FEP Power Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    1,158

    Default

    I have seen some variations when looking fior a cap on my 88. I did not note if it was yellow lettering. In general, I look for some yellow on the cap. It's likely an area where the MCA rules are too generic and personal knowledge needs to override the wording. If in doubt, the benefit goes to the car.

    Btw, I got dinged at the Reno show for painting the power steering plastic housing. I have trouble understanding how they could tell having done it off the car and pump.

    If you want me to have a personal discussion with one of the judges, send me a pm.
    Fox Body/3rd Gen MCA Gold Card Judge
    84 SVO 24K miles, 85 Mclaren Capri Vert.
    88 Mclaren Mustang Vert 20K miles, 89 Mustang LX Sport Vert, 92 GT Vert.
    03 Mach 1 7900 miles, 69 Mustang, 67 Mustang, 14 Mustang CS/GT,
    15 F150 FTX Tuscany, 16 F250 Crewcab, 67 Tbird 47K miles

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Greenwood, IN
    Posts
    3,080

    Default

    The pictures of this car do not appear to be yellow letters either. Also I don't think it is a question of discussing with the judges, rather making sure the rules book is updated. I'm sure that is an ongoing and DAUNTING task!

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ble-8100-miles
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 GT Med. Red - 14k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '85 GT Black - 16k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
    '92 LX 5.0 Calypso - 10k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,700 Mile Original Survivor
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey - 16k miles @ counting.

  10. #10

    Default

    My 84 lx 5.0 has the same cap. Black letters with 2 yellow lines

  11. #11
    FEP Senior Member 83GTJIM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Springfield MO
    Posts
    688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinK View Post
    I have seen some variations when looking fior a cap on my 88. I did not note if it was yellow lettering. In general, I look for some yellow on the cap. It's likely an area where the MCA rules are too generic and personal knowledge needs to override the wording. If in doubt, the benefit goes to the car.
    Quote Originally Posted by sowaxeman View Post
    Also I don't think it is a question of discussing with the judges, rather making sure the rules book is updated. I'm sure that is an ongoing and DAUNTING task!
    Two excellent points and I agree 100%. I have been thinking about this and I believe that the 79-93 cars are being lumped together in judging because there just aren't enough cars, knowledge or interest to take on the daunting task of making better/more detailed rules. I am sure that in the very beginning the first generation cars were probably lumped together until the production differences from 64.5 to 66 were documented.

    However, with that said I do believe it can be done especially with the information we have here. I know restorations are not for everyone but with the number of people on this site I do think we are an excellent resource. I am considering testing to become a judge with the ultimate goal of improving the rules for the third generation, or at least the 79-86 "generation". It could be an undertaking of monumental proportions...for example which 84 GT's should have fog lights/quad shocks/3 piece spoilers? (this is a restoration thread so please no comments "what difference does it make, nobody cares!") With some effort, Marti reports and Foxchassis' help we could probably get darn close to the production change date.

    From a little research and after hearing from others here, I am convinced my PS cap is OEM original and correct. Question is how much work is it going to take to amend/update the judging rules? Ultimately I would rather work to make the rule more accurate than to change my car to fit the rules.
    MCA #110307
    "Saved" 25k mi 83 GT - http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ght=Wrecked+GT
    83 GT T Top
    83 GT Convt
    84 20th Anniversary T Top GT350
    84 GT Convt

  12. #12

    Default

    I also have the same cap on my 84. Yellow lines, albeit worn off and hard to tell in this pic, and no yellow lettering.

    Name:  0314171855d.jpg
Views: 123
Size:  144.0 KB
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  13. #13

    Default

    My 85 GT has the yellow letter version. I wonder if the variation is not a production change, but rather a case of multiple vendors and substitute parts.
    1985 GT owned since new

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 83GTJIM View Post

    However, with that said I do believe it can be done especially with the information we have here. I know restorations are not for everyone but with the number of people on this site I do think we are an excellent resource. I am considering testing to become a judge with the ultimate goal of improving the rules for the third generation, or at least the 79-86 "generation". It could be an undertaking of monumental proportions...for example which 84 GT's should have fog lights/quad shocks/3 piece spoilers? (this is a restoration thread so please no comments "what difference does it make, nobody cares!") With some effort, Marti reports and Foxchassis' help we could probably get darn close to the production change date.
    I know my early 84, 10/27/83 build date left the factory with 3 piece spoiler, quad shocks and NO fog lights.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sowaxeman View Post
    Also has that big vacuum canister behind the PS shock tower...which I believe is the cruise module used up thru 83 or 84....definitely not in '85
    To touch on this comment, my 84 (10/27/83 build date) has the vacuum module for the cruise control mounted in the drivers side fender well behind the liner. It appears to be factory still.
    Brock
    1984 Mustang LX Convertible 3.8L V-6/Auto (SOLD)
    1984 Mustang GT Hatchback 5.0 V-8/5 Speed

    I'm an FEP Supporter and proud of it. Are you?

  16. #16
    FEP Supporter rodster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Allentown, PA
    Posts
    597

    Default

    83 Thunderbird 5.0

    Name:  83 TB PS cap.JPG
Views: 147
Size:  94.2 KB

  17. #17
    FEP Senior Member 83GTJIM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Springfield MO
    Posts
    688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rodster View Post
    83 Thunderbird 5.0

    Name:  83 TB PS cap.JPG
Views: 147
Size:  94.2 KB
    That is cool to see a 5.0 in a 83 Ford that isn't in a truck. What was Ford thinking running a serpentine belt that didn't include the PS? Looks like a lot of parts are different on the EFI vs HO 5.0. Looks like the AC compressor might be different too.

    Generally I am seeing the all yellow cap on some 83's but more so earlier cars, the yellow striped cap on later 83 cars and newer (83-85). The black cap with yellow lettering seems to have first made an appearance in 1985. Of course, there are always exceptions but based on low mileage original owner cars this is what I am finding with limited search so far.
    MCA #110307
    "Saved" 25k mi 83 GT - http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ght=Wrecked+GT
    83 GT T Top
    83 GT Convt
    84 20th Anniversary T Top GT350
    84 GT Convt

  18. #18
    FEP Senior Member 83GTJIM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Springfield MO
    Posts
    688

    Default

    Double post
    MCA #110307
    "Saved" 25k mi 83 GT - http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ght=Wrecked+GT
    83 GT T Top
    83 GT Convt
    84 20th Anniversary T Top GT350
    84 GT Convt

  19. #19
    FEP Power Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    1,158

    Default

    [QUOTE=? Ultimately I would rather work to make the rule more accurate than to change my car to fit the rules.[/QUOTE]

    Even with errors on judging your car should fair well if the rest of the car is correct and clean. I used to get dinged for the heater hose clamps on my SVO. I knew the car was correct. Another one is the embossed oil filter. The FL 300 never came embossed and the FL 1 just does not fit. This is an example where the judge should know better than to follow the letter. You need to get you cars out there to the shows and be the example that they follow.
    Fox Body/3rd Gen MCA Gold Card Judge
    84 SVO 24K miles, 85 Mclaren Capri Vert.
    88 Mclaren Mustang Vert 20K miles, 89 Mustang LX Sport Vert, 92 GT Vert.
    03 Mach 1 7900 miles, 69 Mustang, 67 Mustang, 14 Mustang CS/GT,
    15 F150 FTX Tuscany, 16 F250 Crewcab, 67 Tbird 47K miles

  20. #20

    Default

    Honestly I wore my four eyed shirt to MCA and walked right past nearly every non-4eye car there. I was there to see the cars from everyone at FEP and I've seen almost everything else at the show so many times.

    The attitude often received by others for having a four eyed car I guess is becoming a little bit of a two way street. Lol.

    100% agree - change the rules not the cars!

  21. #21
    The Dominator Guy! bluesfannoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Osage City, Ks
    Posts
    2,159

    Default

    Traveling long distances across the country with our cars is not in the cards for a lot of us at this point. But yes agree the more shows we can attend and assist with judging, the better the rules will get. So guys look for a national show in your area and volunteer to assist in judging. My car is nowhere near judging class ready so at the recent Grand National in KC I just put it in a show only class so it still got seen. Then volunteered to help with judging.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinK View Post
    Even with errors on judging your car should fair well if the rest of the car is correct and clean. I used to get dinged for the heater hose clamps on my SVO. I knew the car was correct. Another one is the embossed oil filter. The FL 300 never came embossed and the FL 1 just does not fit. This is an example where the judge should know better than to follow the letter. You need to get you cars out there to the shows and be the example that they follow.
    Steve
    "Taillights in Your Face Jack? You've just been Dominated!"

    # Link to Facebook Dominator Mustang Fans # # Link to Facebook Predator Mustang Fans #

    # Link to Facebook Twister Mustang Fans #


    Current Stangs: 85 Black T-Top Dominator GT # Link to Restoration Thread #
    Previously owned:
    85 Dominator GT RIP 1995, 85 Predator GT, 83 Dominator GT, 82 Mustang GT

  22. #22

    Default

    Truth is I worry more about age related failures than mileage related. I've had U joints last through two full seasons on the drag strip then go another 200K miles. I replaced them with the same parts bought at the same time and stored inside. those also fail within 3000 miles. I thought the ones in the car went out because my car had sat for 5 years, the reality is it was because the seals around the bearings were lord knows how old and simply couldn't do their job anymore. They hadn't broke entirely but boy they sure vibrated at speed. Btw - my usual rule of thumb is if I can feel them shake at wide open throttle at 2000 in 4th and they stop shaking when I left off then they are about to fail....

    But belts and hoses and wheel bearing seals and brake lines and tires and engine seals ... and.... and.. are all the same way for the most part. So yes - unless the stuff has all been replaced through normal maintenance stuff is bound to go wrong.

  23. #23
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Greenwood, IN
    Posts
    3,080

    Default

    Adding to this...my 92 and 93 both have black caps with yellow letters (not yellow stripes) on beige reservoirs. Just a little more evidence the rules need updated.
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 GT Med. Red - 14k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '85 GT Black - 16k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
    '92 LX 5.0 Calypso - 10k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,700 Mile Original Survivor
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey - 16k miles @ counting.

  24. #24
    FEP Supporter roush235's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lebanon, TN
    Posts
    2,502

    Default

    On purpose, I waited a while to let comments accumulate, before offering my thoughts from the MCA Judging perspective. In doing so, I think most of my thoughts have been already mentioned, but I still want to summarize them.

    First of all, kudos to all of you for the reasoned, non-flaming discussion. No "stupid MCA" or "why should anyone care" comments.

    So, here are my comments and a bit of an insider's vewpoint.

    -MCA rules for our cars cover fifteen model years. Fifteen. Think about that in relation to other Mustang model years and models. For example MCA class CTG is for just trailered 1967-68 Shelbys.
    -Obviously, over so many model years, there are zillions of sub-models and trims.
    -And beyond that, there are who knows how many manufacturing deviations. I have found some as I replace parts on my 79 with parts from 79's being parted out (thank you Fearnot for being so helpful).
    -There aren't that many Fox Body cars on the show field to use as examples, especially Four Eyes, and double especially original condition Four Eye cars. As has been noted above, the Four Eye group at Kansas City was one of the best I have seen.
    -There are very, very few Fox Body "gurus" out there. One such person was at KC (more on that below), but even then...
    -Even the gurus don't know everything. They might know a lot about a few model years, likely because they had those cars. But try to find someone who knows the ins and outs of a 79 base coupe (my car) and a 85 GT and a 93 Feature Car and a 84 SVO and a.... well you get the idea.
    -Why this lack of knowledge? Not enough cars, yes, but..... not enough interest.
    -Why not enough interest? We love our cars, but we know they are quite far down the pecking list of favorite Mustangs.
    -And further, that means..... our cars are low on the monetary value scale, though the super low mileage examples are regularly picking up steam. Thus the incentive to get a car "exactly right" in order to fetch big dollars doesn't exist. But perhaps I digress.

    So back to the original issue:

    -It would be great to have all (or at least more) info documented on the various differences and "correct" parts, the power steering cap being a good example.
    -But that means 'someone' would have to do the research and documentation. For fifteen model years. A labor of love, for sure.

    Now for the insider info:

    At the last of the show year we have an Annual Judges Meeting. It takes place Sunday afternoon/evening and Monday morning. Various aspects of the Judging community are discussed. At our 3rd Gen breakout session this year, we spent over two hours going over the judging sheet, line by line. The sorts of issues mentioned above were discussed. When we knew about a change or improvement, we discussed how, or even if, to include it on the judging sheet. We did make several alterations and corrections.

    At our breakout session was a Fox Body "guru". I was blown away but what he did know, but he admitted his knowledge isn't complete. Specifically he seemed to know a ton about the middle years but not that much about early Four Eyes or late Aero cars. Unfortunately he is not a regular at MCA shows.

    So your next thought if you have stayed with me to this point is, why wouldn't one include all the available info on the judging sheet?

    Practicalities now set in. The judging sheet is already approaching 20 pages. There are small blocks of info for dozens and dozens of parts or areas. Can you imagine what the judging sheet would look like if every detail for every part was recorded? It would be so cumbersome and chaotic as to be unworkable. So that is why the sheet often just makes things more generic, and relies on the knowledge of the judge (which, as I have noted above, is unfourtunately far from complete.)

    The other practicality is whether the part in question has a high or low point value. If it is a low point value, it is less likely to have detailed info available.

    We have actually discussed taking on a project of bettering the documentation, for example an online document with details, including pictures. But whether that ever gets done, I don't know.

    You can see how the difference in interest and enthusiasm (and monetary value) for our cars permeates into multiple areas. If our cars were of the same mindset as 64 1/2-66's, I could see three or four subsets of model years with the accompanying detail. But it isn't going to happen.

    All of us MCA judges try to do as best we can, but we make mistakes.


    Thanks to everyone for your reasoned participation in this discussion, and please continue the comments.
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
    79 original owner six cylinder coupe
    MCA Gold Card judge for 3rd Generation cars

  25. #25
    The Dominator Guy! bluesfannoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Osage City, Ks
    Posts
    2,159

    Default

    Very well said Bob. I would vote for the online documentation so that judges and owners can study ahead of time and not need such a long judging sheet. The current judging sheet was a little overwhelming in my first attempt at judging.
    Steve
    "Taillights in Your Face Jack? You've just been Dominated!"

    # Link to Facebook Dominator Mustang Fans # # Link to Facebook Predator Mustang Fans #

    # Link to Facebook Twister Mustang Fans #


    Current Stangs: 85 Black T-Top Dominator GT # Link to Restoration Thread #
    Previously owned:
    85 Dominator GT RIP 1995, 85 Predator GT, 83 Dominator GT, 82 Mustang GT

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •