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  1. #26
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Not Saleen - not shocked. It must have received a pile of parts from a wrecked one - hell it even has the correct struts (depending upon build date vs switch to Koni), camber "onions", shocks, etc. we've all looked at pictures and picked out stuff.

    I initially went to look at it because it was advertised as an 86 roller that was rust free, only 65 miles from home, and $800. It's not an 86. It is rust free. It was 65 miles from home, and I did get it for $800.

    Based upon the parts I'm finding I could release the Saleen specific stuff back to the FS market for more cash than I paid for the car. Then there's the seats and gauge cluster, fog lamps, etc.

    Once you get down to the bones 100% of the metal in the car appears to be original ford and straight and rust free. So still - worth way more than what I have in it.

    If I can talk others into helping me do it, I'll save my 86GT and also build this 85 - maybe even as a Saleen tribute given what's here. If there is little help to be found, this 85 will get blown apart entirely and built as an 86 that is a clone it my car back in the day then modded to my current vision.

    For my 86 -- Imagine the picture without the young guy I barely recognize standing by it. Add SVO spats behind the front wheels and in front of the rears. Imagine a 93 Cobra rear bumper merged with the 86 belt trim. Likely some type of lower spoiler on the 86 nose. Eliminate the ford logo, work a pony into the opening somehow. Redo the 17" tribars as Cobra R wheels


    Beyond that - dunno.

    Gotta admit - those old Saleens in the right color are a real looker. Finding the right wheels is just the start of that battle though. Enkei 92 classics are available again at least.

    Then there's the hard to find stuff to finish the look that is not already there on this 85.

    If anyone wondered what flawless body work then 5 coats of base hand rubbed followed by 5 coats of clear cut and buffed then polished with several heavy coats of wax looks like on a four eyed fox .... I'm the young guy standing next to your answer. I sure miss seeing my 86 in that condition! I really liked it with everything shot in gloss black!
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    Last edited by erratic50; 09-28-2017 at 07:25 PM.

  2. #27
    FEP Senior Member Tigger's Avatar
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    Did you contact Saleen to find that out? There were a few cars converted that did not get bumper numbers. The ones that did not get numbers are not in the book.
    67 Mustang Coupe
    96 Tangerine GT
    86 Saleen #179

  3. #28
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    That should probably be one of my next steps.

    Reality is Saleens were cool and all at the time but as far as foxbody performance goes the suspension mods they got back then are nowhere near what you can do by opening the Maximum Motorsports catalog and getting out your AMEX. A few of them did receive superchargers which helped overall performance but these days so many parts are around that can stomp that too.

    oh well - still having fun thinking through this project.

    I might just have to buy an 87-91 hatchback so I can rob it of metal for my 86 and strip it of its drivetrain for my 85......
    Last edited by erratic50; 09-14-2017 at 12:42 AM.

  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Did you contact Saleen to find that out? There were a few cars converted that did not get bumper numbers. The ones that did not get numbers are not in the book.
    All Saleen VINs are known. The VIN of this car is not a Saleen VIN. Has nothing to do with bumper numbers. It's the car's actual VIN and they are all known. They kept excellent records that still exist.

  5. #30
    FEP Senior Member Tigger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homer302 View Post
    All Saleen VINs are known. The VIN of this car is not a Saleen VIN. Has nothing to do with bumper numbers. It's the car's actual VIN and they are all known. They kept excellent records that still exist.
    There are cars that Saleen converted that never got a bumper number assigned. Yes Saleen has the VIN but those VIN numbers are not listed in the book. Case in point this 86. It was converted by Saleen but supposedly per the original owners request he did not want an 86-XXXX number assigned. The 3 digit VIN of this car is not in the book but the VIN number is in the Saleen records. Unfortunately the current owner of this car (not me) does not want to sell it. I'm pretty sure I read about an 87 that had the same thing happen. This is why I think he should contact Saleen and ask. It can't hurt.
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    Last edited by Tigger; 09-10-2017 at 02:57 AM.
    67 Mustang Coupe
    96 Tangerine GT
    86 Saleen #179

  6. #31
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Unless my eyes deceive me that car has a regular GT front bumper. Any more pictures. Back by the tail pipes and from the back maybe?? I will contact Saleen as there are just too many parts on mine for there to be no significance.....

    thanks for all the posts!
    Last edited by erratic50; 09-14-2017 at 12:44 AM.

  7. #32
    FEP Senior Member Tigger's Avatar
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    The owner has the front air dam in the garage. This car has all the Saleen parts. Momo wheel, shifter knob, rare 3rd brake light, headlight cover tabs, Ford Motorsport decals etc. Just no plaque on the ash tray door and no numbers in the drivers headlight bucket.

    It's k member brace on your car that makes me wonder. That is not a part that most people would swap or know about in my opinion. The fact that it is red makes me believe it's a real Saleen part as the one on my car is red also.

    I'm no expert but I have read a lot about these cars in the last 8-9 years I have owned mine.
    67 Mustang Coupe
    96 Tangerine GT
    86 Saleen #179

  8. #33
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Based upon looking at the car and what is actually there I think this group is on to it being something more than a run of the mill 85 GT. Not that those are bad don't get me wrong.

    In the end my 85 is likely going to get built as a Saleen appearance wise with all the period parts on it. Under the hood is a blank canvas but it will likely receive my low miles 1990 HO longblock with 1.7:1 rockers topped with a nice Edelbrock intake and carb and shorty headers. backit up by a T5Z and just a few performance upgrades. I have an extra 8.8 that I can build with my spare set of 3.55:1 gears.

    I may make it a fun driver then get serious about blowing apart and restoring my 86. If I can save this one and have some fun while I save the one I've had for 25 years that is quite a great long term goal.

    I had a fleeting thought wondering what 5 lug crown Vic or Mark VII wheels would look like if they were nice.... But i probably should leave the 85 4 lug and track down the correct rims for an 85 Saleen. 15x7 Enkei is what most had. A very few got 16x7 that looked mostly the same but were another brand who's name escapes me.
    -- James

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    My four eyed foxes:
    "Trigger" - 86 Mustang GT - Black with red interior. 5.0 T5 built as Z. Original motor ~1/2 million miles. 18 yr daily, 10 a toy
    "Silver" - 85 Mustang Saleen 1985-006? (Lol) Rare 1E silver GT / charcoal interior. The car is a little bit of a mystery. Current project bought as a roller, tons of Saleen / Racecraft pedigree

    Also in the stable - my son’s car. 1986 Mustang GT Convertible. Black/Black/Black conversion. 93 leather. VM1 ECU. T5Z

    past foxes -
    1989 Mustang LX Sport 5.0 AOD white/tan black top. Once I ran this one down I caught a wife.
    Wife also had a 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe in the 90's.

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  9. #34
    FEP Power Member dagenham's Avatar
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    The other wheel name is Hyashi Racing which is what's on mine. I googled but didn't really find anything too relavent.

  10. #35
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Had to go grab some parts for my son's 86 GT convertible today. Took more pictures of the 85.
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    Last edited by erratic50; 09-10-2017 at 11:15 PM.

  11. #36
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    More pics
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    Last edited by erratic50; 09-10-2017 at 11:18 PM.

  12. #37
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    More still
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  13. #38
    FEP Senior Member Tigger's Avatar
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    That looks like the same k member brace that my car has. A full set of Koni's and possibly some racecraft springs. Hard to tell but the springs look red in color. Nice!!!
    67 Mustang Coupe
    96 Tangerine GT
    86 Saleen #179

  14. #39
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    They were red at one time for sure. And the car is vastly lower than a stock 85

  15. #40
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    I am going to start a build thread on this car soon. Both to show what is being done and also to discuss that should be done.

    I could not tell for sure but it almost looked like the lower control arms are different than they are on my 86GT. I need to get out Picts and compare sometime.

    Inside the ash tray and lighter assembly are MIA. A few other misc things like that too. the rear spats that are an 85 Saleen body kit only thing are not there. The front lower bumper that is an 85 only also is not there..... they are repoppibg 86's but they are spendy and don't look good imo.

    Been thinking about wheels for another thing and the 15"x7" Enkei 92 were what real Saleens had back in the day.

    The racecraft/Koni stuff of Saleen origination on this car is really cool - had to cost a pretty penny to put under any car back in the day!

    If if I were to throw an engine/trans in and go drive it I already know there are a few major things letting it down:
    1 - non-SVO 85 Foxbody brakes *suck*. Good thing brakes are for quitters!
    2 - there's ton more caster available than what the onion plates actually dialed in
    3 - Ackerman sucks on all foxbody spindles. Major design flaw.... no 4 lug hubs for sn95 spindles forces to 5 lug
    4 - triangulated rear control arms sucks... they need a panhard badly
    5 - they don't have nearly enough rubber under them in stock form

    Ran a car fax on this 85. It sold new in Missouri. Figuratively down the street from where T-top conversions were built by Cars & Concepts. Unclear to what extent they did mods at any point- although some info unconfirmed suggests a production switch happened a few years later and was short lived.

    my 85 came to Nebraska in 1986. Last reported mileage is 14K.

    Undoubtedly owner history could possibly clear some things up.

    [still researching cars & concepts. It seems they did a lot of the T-top conversions on four eyed foxes. Many cars have a modified by sticker on the door jam]
    Last edited by erratic50; 03-01-2018 at 09:27 AM.

  16. #41
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I am no Saleen Expert by any means, but I was never aware of Saleens being built at Cars & Concepts by them or in their facility. I thought Saleens were built by Saleen in CA. I know there were a couple of different locations over the years, but I wasn't aware of production ever being outside of CA.

    Either way, cool car and sorting out its history and origin should be fun! Good Luck!

    Oh! Forgot one thing. Looking at the picture of the front strut, that appears to me to be an SVO style Koni. The spindle mounting pad is much higher up on the strut body than a regular Mustang strut. It could be the angle of the picture, but I believe I am correct. That might explain the Koni parts on the car. Again I am no expert, but I don't believe the Racecraft "Saleen" stuff was made by Koni for Saleen, but again I might be completely wrong.
    Last edited by wraithracing; 09-11-2017 at 08:40 AM.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  17. #42
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    The Cars & Concepts thing was short lived but documented in places like Wikipedia.

    Still unclear about any of the parts in this car. Racecraft made springs and also shock/struts. Not sure on timing of when for each- always thought it was springs first then eventually dampeners.

    SVO struts won't fit on a normal control arm afaik. Could be wrong.

    Not sure what is "right" for an 85 Saleen even or if what's right for them changed over the years- I'm sure it probably did.

    this particular car should handle decent with Koni shocks and struts on it with those springs.

    Im trying to decide now if I'm going to switch sn95 spindles to correct the Ackerman or leave it alone. There is only marginal differences appearance wise between Enkei 92's and the American Racing wheels mesh wheels in 5 lug. Or even the LSC or crown Vic mesh wheel painted and polished properly for that matter.

    Reality is if it's a tribute style car there is plenty of creative leaway in what's done or not done. There is no correct or incorrect, just what is.

  18. #43
    FEP Super Member 84StangSVT's Avatar
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    You could also go with a set of 15 or 16" Riken mesh wheels. 16" Rikens were also used on the Saleens in late 85 to 86.

    http://www.saleenclubofamerica.com/SCOATech/84-86.htm
    Brock
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  19. #44
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Good point! The main thing is wheels that don't look out of place or break the bank. Steve has some wheels Im trying to decide on right now as far as that goes.

  20. #45
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    I went out and checked a few of my Foxes and it appears I was WRONG! The struts appear to be the same setup as most of my stock Foxes out here. Maybe I am too used to SN95 Struts or something. Sorry for the confusion.

    I will have to look into the Cars & Concepts deal as I have never seen or heard that information. Not saying its not true, just never been aware of it. I personally am always leery of Wikipedia as often the information there can be incorrect.

    I believe the 85 Model Saleens came with Racecraft shocks, struts, and springs. Anything is possible over the last 30 plus years in regards to part swaps, etc.

    IMHO changing to the SN95 spindles is worth the trouble for the better brake options, and the wider choice of wheels generally. The Ackerman affect is generally minimal in high performance driving/racing due to the weight transfer to the outside wheel in a turn and the Ackerman angle affecting the inside wheel with the lighter load. In a high downforce car it can provide some improvement due to the better balance and aero downforce on the front suspension. Ackerman can improve turn in for a parking spot, so that is nice, but again not sure its worth all the trouble and expense just for that.

    If you find out there is Saleen history with this vehicle, I would stay 4 lug and original, otherwise the improvements of the SN95 spindles would be my preferred choice.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  21. #46
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    I've seen Saleens that have cars and concepts stickers on the door jam for what it is worth. I believe they only made 100 or so cars the year that production was there and it ended up being a really big mistake for Saleen. [if there is any merit to the Wikipedia articles at all]

    Really good point on the better brakes.

    This car looks like it's been a pretty good liar for much of it's life since it's not a real numbered one. It doesn't look like any of the stuff was put on the car anytime recently. Maybe I'll give the damn thing number six since six was never made.

    It's a lot easier to just leave it alone and throw some wheels on it and drop it engine and tranny in it. Slap some paint on it clean the hell out of it and enjoy. My biggest problem is is I very rarely ever do anything half assed. I keep trying to remind myself that sometimes less is more.

    Flipside is I do like that I can walk into the auto parts store and tell them I want to nice set of brake pads for a 99 GT and walk out with nice pads when I'm working on my 86. Great point on wheel selection but there's only one style of wheel that I feel would look right on this car. The question is does anybody make them and 17's. That would be nice. Squeeze some 245 45 17 rubber under it.

    Hopefully this will be a car that can be loved when it's done. I'm sure someone will have a problem with it if I put Saleen badges on it but I just might as part of the joke since I mentioned putting number six on it. Real fan of the car is knows there's no such thing as number six.
    Last edited by erratic50; 09-28-2017 at 07:35 PM.

  22. #47
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    I know where a set of gold mesh 15" Saleen wheels are if you decided to go that route. As for "cloning" a Saleen, no harm in it and most Saleen enthusiasts have no problem with....as long as you don't fraudulently try to sell it off at a premium as a REAL Saleen. So have at it
    Last edited by sowaxeman; 09-11-2017 at 12:38 PM.
    Jason Smith
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  23. #48
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    I've seen Saleens that have cars and concepts stickers on the door jam for what it is worth. I believe they only made 100 or so cars the year that production was there and it ended up being a really big mistake for Saleen.

    Really good point on the better brakes.

    This car looks like it's been a pretty good liar for much of it's life since it's not a real numbered one. It doesn't look like any of the stuff was put on the car anytime recently. Maybe I'll give the damn thing number six since six was never made.

    It's a lot easier to just leave it alone and throw some wheels on it and drop it engine and tranny in it. Slap some paint on it clean the hell out of it and enjoy. My biggest problem is is I very rarely ever do anything half assed. I keep trying to remind myself that sometimes less is more.

    Flipside is I do like that I can walk into the auto parts store and tell them I want to nice set of brake pads for a 99 GT and walk out with nice pads when I'm working on my 86. Great point on wheel selection but there's only one style of wheel that I feel would look right on this car. The question is does anybody make them and 17's. That would be nice. Squeeze some 245 45 17 rubber under it.

    Hopefully this will be a car that can be loved when it's done. I'm sure someone will have a problem with it if I put Saleen badges on it but I just might as part of the joke since I mentioned putting number six on it. Real fan of the car is knows there's no such thing as number six.
    I know Cars & Concepts did the T-tops on the Mustangs and Capris, so who knows. As I said, I have never heard anything about them actually producing the cars for Saleen, but anything is possible.

    Obviously not an exact copy of the the Enkei/Riken/American Racing, but IMHO they look AWESOME and would do the car justice.

    Name:  ESR.jpg
Views: 115
Size:  82.6 KB

    https://esrwheels.com/collections/sr...nt=24476524355

    NO 17 X 9 wheels, but they do have a 17 x 8.5 with 30mm offset that should work with the SN95 spindles and easily hold a 245 or even a 255.
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Stalled RestoModification
    1984 SVO Still Waiting Restoration
    1986 GT Under going Wide Body Conversion Currently

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Stalled in TX
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  24. #49
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Too bad they don't offer a black center....

  25. #50

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    I think since it's a mish mash possibly, you should throw a supercoupe engine in it

    With you doing that and Trey putting a new full floor pan in his I should be set up with following your guys examples with my blue car

    Now if Brock will just accept the truth that he needs a Ron Francis full harness, I should be set for the rest of my build.

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