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  1. #1

    Default Ripped the band-aid and a little bit of science with exhaust...

    Well, I had a rear main seal go and while the guys were fixing that I said "Hey, while you have it all torn up, why not toss these brand new Hooker 6128hkr super comp shorty equal length headers I have had sitting in the garage for 2 years on there?". They said, "Sure! Why not?".

    So, I finally modified my untouched g.t. 350. But here is where the contribution to understanding the engine comes in... I had them touch nothing else. Exact same engine, exact same exhaust (all smog gear intact), exact same header pipe (they modified the attachment to the headers to make it work).

    So what happens when you just get rid of the old exhaust manifolds on an 84.5 convertible 5.0 anni with CFI and an automatic? Well, the headers fit (they swore a lot, or so they tell me) but they fit. At least these fit. Down low off of a start not much changed. Sounds a bit more more 'throaty' but with a big old muffler on a single exhaust I didn't expect too much.

    When you get up into the 2k+ range I start to feel the difference. The car at high RPM now surges rather than feels 'held back'. It's not crazy but it no longer feels hobbled. Climbing slope at forty and flooring it used to result in lots of noise but not a whole lot of acceleration. Now it is a throatier noise and some real acceleration. At highway speeds (50 and up) the car is responsive and accelerates without the kind of effort it had before.

    I am sure it would do all of this even more so with dual exhaust or perhaps minus the 33 year old cat but that is not the point. yet,

    So, there you go. What happens when you just swap out the headers. Like I said though, the guys that did it (seasoned mechanics) said it sucked bad. However...


    Next project will be the intake manifold. I don't expect much there but since I have ripped that band-aid, why not...Name:  1ho.jpg
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    Last edited by emerygt350; 08-28-2017 at 07:54 PM.

  2. #2

    Default

    Good, Good, let the modifications flow through you. Feel the force of the added power.

    Jess
    Currently own;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    Previously owned;
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  3. #3
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Default

    Lol. Once you start, good luck. You're screwed.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brianj View Post
    Lol. Once you start, good luck. You're screwed.

    Yeah, I know. All of the online ads are now showing an edelbrock 3723 and fan clutch kits.

    Gonna have the duals done next though. Some time this winter...

  5. #5
    FEP Senior Member Matt J's Avatar
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    Default

    Hey, it's all bolt-on stuff. If you really want to keep the original stuff in the event that someday someone will really want it, go ahead. The car will be better to drive with the upgrades, and that's really why you own it, right?

  6. #6

    Default

    Yeah, that is my plan. I should get the car back tomorrow with the full duals (bbk h catted h-pipe and walker dual setup). Just got the electric fan setup in the mail today.


    Will put a 3723 edelbrock on it this winter. That is probably all I can do with the CFI setup. If I can get up to 190 or 200 hp I think I will be happy. for now...

  7. #7

    Default

    Just got the car back from the mechanics... put the full duals on it...

    Now we have the hooker shorty equal lengths mated up to catted 1521 BBK H pipe going into a couple of Flowmasters heading out into full dual pipes to the rear.

    Here are some pics and a clip of the sound. Needless to say it is running really nice now.

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    here is the sound

    https://youtu.be/r5_UZ8ponYY

    Replaced the 33 year old o2 sensor in the process and I think it was time...

    the Flowmasters are loud but for a summer weekend cruiser I don't mind. On the highway it does not drone and that is all I care about. It does at 20mph but whatever...

    I did just figure out the clutch on the fan is shot (spun real nice and easy at 215 degrees) so this weekend I am going to put my electric fan in.

  8. #8

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    Oh, and this is still with the stock intake and CFI. I love the sound of the CFI so it is going to be hard to part with. Almost sounds like it has a supercharger when you open it up at low speeds...

  9. #9

    Default

    Oh, and they fit it around the brakes and gas lines without modifying the stock setup... Gonna have to keep my eye on that. Looks like good separation though and it is rock solid in there.

  10. #10

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    Sounds really nice.

    Toss in some higher ratio rockers and turn the idle down just a touch and it will sound way more muscular - FYI.

    Im running BBK equal shortly headers with a catted X from UPR and flowmasters (for now) with full tailpipes on my 86. I wish I would have stayed with H - it's a little more like a ricer sound than I wanted.

    I went to a Typhoon intake and it made no difference in engine sound really except for opening up new RPM. The sound from 5000-6250 is addictive.

    Your car with an intake and a little a little more cam should wake up substantially now that the exhaust is opened up.
    Last edited by erratic50; 10-09-2017 at 01:03 PM.

  11. #11

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    Yeah, idle is a tough thing for CFI people. So are cams for that matter. My idle has actually been too low till the new O2 sensor so I am going to let the car think about its behavior for a little while before I try to do anything.

    My winter to do list is new intake and a very mild cam at the same time might be pretty nice.

  12. #12

    Default

    Reset the computer and the idle has fixed itself. Car is running sooo good now. Stopped and Watkins Glen while out cruising around on the 80 degree day and picked up some heat tape (the stuff Advance Auto in Watkins Glen stocks are very very different from your average store) for that break line that is uncomfortable close to the exhaust. Guy at the counter asks if I am racing up at the track. Hah.

  13. #13

    Default

    Round Flowmasters? Are they the Hushpower ones?

    Jess
    Currently own;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    Previously owned;
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang-junky View Post
    Round Flowmasters? Are they the Hushpower ones?

    Jess
    The mechanic said they were 100 a piece so I assume they are outlaws or something. Although they are called a muffler, I think that is only because they are steel, slightly larger than exhaust pipe, and expensive. I can see why he chose them though, it really did allow him to sneak the duals in without moving anything. I heat taped the gas and brake lines that were near the system and I didn't find anything closer than a few inches (but I taped it all anyway, might as well be safe).

  15. #15

    Default

    Flowmaster doesn't have any mufflers that look like that in their catalog now. Just didn't want you to get ripped off. The look more like DynoMax bullet mufflers which are much cheaper than Flowmasters.

    Jess
    Currently own;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    Previously owned;
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustang-junky View Post
    Flowmaster doesn't have any mufflers that look like that in their catalog now. Just didn't want you to get ripped off. The look more like DynoMax bullet mufflers which are much cheaper than Flowmasters.

    Jess
    Yeah, googling it the welds don't look right. I don't mind, they did a great job and I think they were a little embarrassed at the time they spent working on it. They charged me a very reasonable amount for a full dual setup (600$ parts included)

  17. #17

    Default

    hmmm... they are not bullets. Welds really don't look right comparing those two. Now I am curious. They may have been sitting on his shelf for quite a while too.
    Last edited by emerygt350; 10-09-2017 at 07:53 PM.

  18. #18

    Default

    The 3721 edelbrock intake manifold is going on next week. Right now she will do 0-60 in 8 seconds. We will see how much of a difference the intake makes. After that I believe I am going to put 3.73s in the rear. All with the CFI on it.

  19. #19

    Default

    Well, I guess this is where the science part fails... I got the new intake installed:
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    It is beautiful, the engine is running great* and everything works again after some timing etc was done.

    However... the oil pressure tanked. Went from between the o and r to low on the n and even lower out of normal. And there is a death rattle at 2.5k in the lower part of the engine. We are assuming rod bearing. uggh. This is just a hint of a death rattle, nothing even close to a rod knock and it only occurs from 2.5k to maybe 3.5 k and then it goes away again.

    A mechanic friend told me to start pulling plug wires and listen for the 'rattle' to go, then you may have a sense of which cylinder is causing the problem. Did that just now with no effect. However... I noticed that the engine when cold I was way up high on oil pressure (just passed the M) and then as the engine heated up over maybe 20 minutes it slowly came down to between the N and the O. I could not get a rattle out of it of any kind until it started hitting the N. When I could start to hear the sound I tried pulling wires on the passenger bank (where he thought the problem was likely to be) but there was no change in the sound. Thinking about it now, I should have gone all the way around but I didn't. The engine screams and even as I pulled the plugs it was golden, revving up faster than it ever has before the manifold change on 7 cylinders.

    Now to address my denial stage of not wanting to replace rod bearings. When the manifold was installed they changed the oil (of course) and I had it changed again at my normal place a day after that (when I noticed the oil pressure issue). I also verified the oil pump shaft looked good and was seated in the distributor correctly. What if they put 5w30 or something in this old 302 with 85k miles on it? Before I do anything else would it be terribly bad and denialist of me to put Rotella 15w40 in it and see if it was all just a bad dream? Am I just asking for a spun bearing by doing that? I really want to spend that bearing money on new gears for the differential and not bearings.
    Last edited by emerygt350; 11-30-2017 at 08:02 PM.

  20. #20
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Was this an instant change, as soon as you fired it up from the intake, or did it develop after you drove it for a bit.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  21. #21

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    Instant I believe. I really pay attention to my gauges. I have been watching the oil religiously for the last few days for a sign of antifreeze...

  22. #22
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Couple more questions - is this a flat tappet motor or a roller lifter motor? I'm actually suspecting something more along the lines of oil pressure bleeding off somewhere, possibly some crap falling onto a lifter and blocking the oil hole. I find it unlikely that rod bearings would go bad from an intake change. Something else is going on, I think.

    Edit- I'm trying to remember if Ford used a oil pressure bypass near the filter. I've seen crap get jammed in those on different makes of car, sticking it open. I'll have to do some Google searching to see if ford used one.
    Last edited by brianj; 11-30-2017 at 09:57 PM.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  23. #23

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    flat tappet. The 'rattle' to me felt like rockers or something at first, really not a bottom end sound but I am not particularly experienced with dying engines. Definitely not rockers though. The sound is not 'clicky' at all. Nothing sharp sounding. more like a 'looseness' but it only happens after the engine is nice and toasty and it only happens from that range of 2.5ish k to 3.5 ish k. At idle, even when cooking hot it sounds fine and when you stomp on it you don't hear the rattle till it hits those rpms.

  24. #24
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Another thought- although it wouldn't affect oil pressure, that sounds an awful lot like ignition pre ignition, not bearings. Bearings you usually hear right from the get go, not only at 2500+ rpms. Does cfi run a vacuum advance of some kind? I imagine that the vacuum signal has to have changed. Coming in too much with the advance now?

    You might want to consider getting this thread moved to the v8 section - some people might not see it down here, and there are some pretty knowlegable people on here.
    Last edited by brianj; 11-30-2017 at 10:31 PM.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  25. #25

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    That would be a quick check. I am running at 14 degrees advanced now. I think the sound was there at 8 however. I think I may check though since removing the sound from the oil pressure issue would be important in figuring this out.

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