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  1. #1
    FEP Super Member embler's Avatar
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    Default battery dies after 3rd start

    its an 85 gt. 3g alternator, dual electric fans with controller, holley ignition and electric fuel pump. that's it as for the electrical parts besides the obvious headlights and such. problem is, even with a new battery, you can start the car, let it run and then cut it off. sit for a few minutes and it will start right back up. do this again and bam, the battery doesn't have enough juice to start it. does not matter if the car runs 30 minutes or 3, on the 3rd try, the battery will be dead. alternator has been tested, puts out 14.4 volts at idle. 3 different new batteries have been tried as well. all new cables as well. positive cable is 2 gauge and have run 2 grounds. one is 4 gauge going to block and other is 2 gauge going to the chassis. starter is new as well but is one that has the solenoid on it, not on the firewall. I am lost now as to why its doing this. any and all suggestions are welcome.. thanks
    "I'm a mental patient, I'm suppose to act out!"

  2. #2

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    And then what do you do ?
    Can it be jump started after this happens ?
    And the same cycle happens again ?
    Do you have to get the battery charged before it will start the car again ?

    Snake some wires from the battery to inside the car for a volt meter so you can see if your still getting the 14.4v (or whatever) while driving.

  3. #3
    FEP Senior Member gt4494's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jessesandy View Post
    And then what do you do ?
    Can it be jump started after this happens ?
    And the same cycle happens again ?
    Do you have to get the battery charged before it will start the car again ?

    Snake some wires from the battery to inside the car for a volt meter so you can see if your still getting the 14.4v (or whatever) while driving.
    Or never start it more than twice!!!!

    It actually it sounds like (if the battery holds a charge) it either has a drain on it all the time or the alternator is not charging.

    You can put a volt meter on the battery and see what the voltage reads. Then start it and verify that the voltage goes up by 1-3 volts. Its not the best most accurate way to diagnose but it will give you a quick indication.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
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    1984 20th Anniversary GT350
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  4. #4
    FEP Power Member dagenham's Avatar
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    Unhook the negative battery cable and place a test light between the cable and the battery post. If it lights up then you have a dead short. Start unplugging things until the light goes out. This is only another test and I doubt there is drain that fast.
    Is the car always warm when it wont start?? Usually that is a bad starter or the ignition timing is to far advanced. Have you done anything with the timing lately?
    Just my two cents worth.

  5. #5

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    you want to measure voltage drop
    with everything off take a voltmeter and measure the volts at the battery
    start pulling fuses one by one and see if/when the volts stop dropping
    Then disconnect at the solenoid one by one the power wires to the starter, then alternator, fuseable links,,,,

  6. #6

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    Headers? Sounds like the problem that plagued GM's for a time with their solenoids on the starters, that get heat soaked, especially when headers are involved, and the drag or non-start mimics a dying/dead battery. I've seen this BS first hand, years ago. The first try after breaking in the camshaft in a freshened up 350 (Chev) in my '74 LeMans... no-go. The cure was bypassing General Motors' starter-mounted starter solenoid, and adding a traditional Ford solenoid on the inner fender near the battery. Never was there such an issue again.

    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member embler's Avatar
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    Default

    Yeah, it needs a jump to start again. It does whether the wngine is hot or cold. Tried 3 starters, one was a motorcraft that waa brand new, others were reman. I have put my meter on it while its running, 14 volts at idle, also have an aftermarket onw in car that reads the same. Voltage drops to 12 when starting which is still enough for it to start. Anything less than 11 and the ignition wont work. Running a holley annihilator ignition thats programmable with a hot shot coil. I had thought about the solenoid as well. Haven't tried putting a remote one on it yet. It has bbk shorties on it and there is plenty of clearance between the 2. After the car has been jumped off and its ran a while, the battery will show a full charge so i know the alternator is working. It is a 3g . Timing is set at 13*. I have even played around with the ignition as it has a start retard function but it doesnt help.
    I am just curious as to why it is doing this. I sold the car this past christmas to a friend for his daughter as a christmas gift. I never had any trouble with it before. It has been doing this for the past few months and I will be getting the car back in another month or so. Keep the suggestions coming guys as i want to get it back into tip top shape when i get it back. Thanks
    "I'm a mental patient, I'm suppose to act out!"

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member embler's Avatar
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    Default

    Forgot to add that i had done a lot of wiring to the car when i first bought it. The previous owner had the starter on it with the mounted solenoid plus it still had the remote one of it as well. So it had to go through 2 solenoids before the starter could engage. I have a feeling that the ones i sold it to may have messed up some of the wiring trying to "fix" it.
    "I'm a mental patient, I'm suppose to act out!"

  9. #9

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    Car should try to crank down to 8v or so. If it doesn't, then there might be something up with the solenoid on the starter. My mini starter cranks when the power windows wont roll up. I left the fender one so i didn't have to re route all the wires, doesnt hurt anything being there.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  10. #10
    FEP Senior Member gt4494's Avatar
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    I would see if someone (auto parts store maybe ) can run a load test on the battery. You didn't mention battery age but around here 4-5 years is average.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
    Albert Einstein

    1984 20th Anniversary GT350
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  11. #11
    FEP Super Member embler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haystack View Post
    Car should try to crank down to 8v or so. If it doesn't, then there might be something up with the solenoid on the starter. My mini starter cranks when the power windows wont roll up. I left the fender one so i didn't have to re route all the wires, doesnt hurt anything being there.
    It wont start at anything under 11 volts because of the ignition system being used. Msd boxes are the same way.

    Battery is a month old. Bought new at napa. 850 cold cranking amps if i remember correctly.
    "I'm a mental patient, I'm suppose to act out!"

  12. #12

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    Cranking amprage has nothing to do with capacity, as well as actual voltage under load.

    A car battery commonly drops down to about 10 volts when it is started, especially if it has been sitting for a while or if the battery is bad. This is the reason that pretty much all amperage ratings for automotive use are done at 8v's dc. I can guarantee that the napa battery isn't gonna be anywhere near 12v while cranking 850 amps...

    Long story short, you need a beefier battery, probably with a different chemistry then lead acid. A good starter should only pull about 50 amps, apparently this particular battery couldn't maintain over 11v with a 50 amp load or so.

    To put this into perspective, i have a model airplane hobbyist battery that is rated at 220amps peak and 165 amps continuous. This battery is 2.2 ah and weighs less then 6oz. A car battery is usually anywhere from 35-75 ah and weigh around 50lbs.

    This is why some people like gel cell batteries such as optimas.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

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