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  1. #1

    Default which starter do i need?

    I have an 1986 5.8 bolted to a 1983 5 speed in a 1979 pacecar. My motorcraft starter went out. I have put in two rebuilt driveworks 3185SV starters. They both spun but would not engage with the flywheel. 3185SV is the replacement starter for an 1986 5.8 with a manual trans. Question is am I using the wrong application? Should I be using a starter for an 1986 5.8 with an auto trans because that is what the motor came out of... or do I need to ask for an 1983 5.8 manual trans to match the 5 speed I currently have in the car? Did that make sense?

    Thanks
    Mark

  2. #2

    Default

    Looks to me the 3185 (left) starter for the 5.8 F150's snout/gear doesn't reach out as far as the typical "3180" (right) starter.





    Starter choice depends on trans/flywheel used, not solely by engine. Additionally, the truck's flexplate/flywheel would have been 164 tooth, and the T5's flywheel is no doubt a 157 tooth (smaller diameter). Additionally 2.0, did you address the potential 28.2(5.8L)/50.0(5.0L) ounce imbalance differences?...
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 07-16-2017 at 02:35 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  3. #3

    Default

    If I'm understanding this correctly...
    True or False:
    The 5.8L 28.2oz flywheel/flexplate only come in 164 tooth (regardless of trans).

    Mark

  4. #4

    Default

    302 trucks had 164 t flywheels and the same starter as a 157t flywheel.

    Diameter doesn't matter, neither does tooth count really. A 164t starter will be about 1/4" further out to match up properly. The diameter is set by the bellhousing.

    Then there is the starter offset. The offset is set by the flywheel. The trucks and most older "full sized" cars had the 3/8" offset. Most automatics and smaller cars had a 5/8" offset on the ring gear.

    I have used automatic 164t flywheel starters on manual 157t flywheels with no issues.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  5. #5

    Default




    Starter is a 1992-96 f-150 or f-250 manual starter for the m5od trans vs the (greasey)stock fox auto starter.

    Flywheel is stock stang junk (157t and greasy) vs 1987 f-150 164t flywheel.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Default

    Check it with some clay. Manually engage the starter drive yourself by removing the cover and moving it while it's mounted. This will tell the story.

  7. #7

    Default

    SBF's running 157 tooth flywheels/flexplates use the same starter, with 3/4" reach, and a 4.084" block plate register diameter, like the "3180" shown above. Ditto with 164 tooth flexplate. The 164 tooth manual transmission flywheel uses the lesser reach starter of 3/8", and a similar but different enough 4.130" block plate register diameter... which will be why your "3185" starter spins and doesn't engage the flywheel ring gear teeth. The flywheel/flexplate diameter, tooth count, and ring gear location/distance from the back of the block dictates which starter reaches correctly, and the bellhousing and block plate position the starter for the differing flywheel/flexplate diameter and tooth count. Unless you're running a manual transmission 164 tooth flywheel, order for automatic transmission (or '83 manual transmission), a "3180" or the equivalent to it, and that ought to fix you up.

    The pre (28.2) and post (50.0) '82 balance factor remains... The Windsor requiring 28.2 and, unless it's a Windsor-specific 28.2 157T flywheel, an '83 from behind a 5.0L having 50.0...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  8. #8

    Default

    After cracking the housing and shearing teeth on 3185, AAP will not make it right. I bolted on a big starter from salvage yard and it just spun. Now I am out of money and still no start.

    I am about to give it away.
    I am too old for this.

    Mark
    1979 Indy and MSPEARS are both me

  9. #9

    Default

    Take a picture of the flywheel through the starter hole. I have both style starters just sitting around. I will send you one for free. Pm me for contact info.

    The 164t flywheel will be about 1/2" further out then the 157t flywheel. As long as you have the correct sized flywheel you'll be all set reguardless of which starter it should be.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  10. #10

    Default

    not to throw a monkey wrench here, but why not install a 93 mini starter? It's far superior and reduces the amperage draw at startup.

  11. #11

    Default

    I now have $60 invested in two starters and neither are correct. So I really appreciate Haystack's offer. So my pic needs to show the depth from the end of the bellhousing to the flywheel... or the distance from the outside/inside of the bellhousing to the diameter/teeth on the flywheel?

    Mark

  12. #12

    Default

    The distance from the bell housing shouldn't matter if you were able to chew teeth up. The gear only moved forwards and back towards the starter. If it hits teeth, you have the right flywheel.

    A 3/8" offset flywheel will have no lip on the flywheel, while a 3/4" offset will have a small lip before the teeth. Rhus will tell me which starter you need.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  13. #13

    Default

    From where the teeth bottom out in the flywheel, the offset is 3/8".
    From the tip of the teeth, the edge of the flywheel, the offset is 5/8".
    I hope this helps determine. Just holler back.

    Thanks.
    Mark
    1979 Indy and MSPEARS are both me

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