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  1. #1

    Default 5.0 (302) vs 2.3 bellhousing patterns

    I apologize if this has been answered a million times. I didn't come up with much on my search... Do the 2.3s share the same bellhousing pattern as the 302? Reason I am asking is because my 85 mustang currently has a 2.3 and I was offered a trade I can't refuse. A rebuilt 302 for my current 2.3. My 2.3 is rebuilt. Has 300 miles at most on it. I've known the guy for a handful of years. Straightforward guy. He has been looking for a 2.3 for his sandrail project... I would like to do this trade. I can't let it go. It's not often someone is willing to do this trade. I'm just not sure if this 302 will bolt up to my current tranny. I know this 4 speed and rear end won't live long behind a 302. I can search for a tranny and rear end after the swap. I just don't want to leave my car parked without an engine. Thanks in advance for all and any help!

  2. #2

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    Get a newer sn-95 v-6 t-5, it bolts right in. I did my swap for $400 all in.

    And no, the 2.3 bell housing isnt compatable, although the bellhousing can be swapped on the t#5 and made to work.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  3. #3

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    i know adapter plates were once made available for people who had a v8 trans/bell to use and didnt want to hunt down the right set, was sub $200. dont know if they are still available or from whom, briefly looked at that option before i ruled out 2.3 turbo in my mustang

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Got some pretty hard , maybee odd questions for you...


    But the deal is, find anothet 140 bux, and a spot cost of about 60 bux to have a thinner 11 mm plate made off it.


    Make sure your 5.0 comes with the 5.0 clutch, bellhousing, starter and seperator plate, and the clutch cable quadrant.

    Now...
    1. Can you confirm your VIN code and door post data for your 1-bbl 2.3 and 4 speed gearbox combination? Send it to Fox Chassis for a decode.

    2. You have a 4 speed manual gearbox with 3.08:1 axle?

    3. Is the diff tag on, and is it a 6.7S or 7.5 axle?

    If so, the Type E Rocket (ET78 or RUC) gearbox was supplied to the US with V6 roller bearings, the same as the 2.8's and later T9 gearboxes. As such it is rated to 140 hp, but it is actually able to take much more. It is able to handle around 206 lb-ft of torque.


    It was used behind the "so called" 188 hp V6 engined 1981 Ford Capri 2.8 Turbo.




    The US version has wide ratios and isn't anything special. Ford chose not to use it behind V8's and most Carb Turbo 2.3's didn't get that gearbox, they got other, tougher, US made gearboxes. Since the gearbox is an imported German gearbox, why would they use it behind an American V8?


    Well, if you have to, you can use it, it won't last long, and


    you must promise to save up for a T9 or T5 gearbox when you can afford it,

    but it can work fine. Both US 2.3 4speeds German gearboxes and the T9 from the 2.3 Merkur input = 194mm = 7.625".


    So use the existing V8 bellhousing, and have an 11mm steel adaptor made with the bolt pattern of the V8 to the bolt pattern of the Rocket.


    Buy the 140 dollar MDL 401-2102 ADAPTOR, and have it redrilled to the ET78/T9 trans pattern. Then have it copied in steel 11mm thick.


    Use the 4 cylinder T5 input shaft bearing.


    Depending on your axle type, depends on if you ned to shorten the drive shaft or not.






    Other information. Don't need to read it if its not where you want to go.


    I'm a Kiwi. I build adaptor plates. I've swaped EAO 2.0 4 cylinder gearboxes to in line sixes with ease, but V8's are a lot harder. In NZ, we'd get stuck in the back blocks of a farm, 5 thousand miles from anywhere with proper US parts...


    So with no parts, and some mates, its like Monster Garage verses Burt Munroe, and in one weekend, we'd make an adaptor plunge cut with a gas axe or plsma cutter, out of 5/16" steel to fit anything to anything. So I'm probably not the right person to ask, but...


    Nope, won't work on a dollars verses result basis. Bellhousing and starter collide with parts of the back of the SBF V8, and you have to deal with the 50Oz or whatever unblance, which gets harder to do the smaller you go with your flywheel or flexplate. 280z is easier. Some V8's used a split 50 Oz front and 34 Oz rear weight, so its easy to become unstuck with this.

    Its only the Front drive 3.4 Yamaha SHO V8's (and 3.0 Vulcan and 3.0 Yamaha SHO /Duratech V6's) that can can take the 4 cylinder 2.3 transmission bellhousing.


    If you want a to triumph engineering over common sense, then sure, you can ensure any transmission bellhousing fits anything.


    Again, due to the limits of the in ward postion of the V8 starter motor and what thickness of plate you use to mate it all up, you can only use a 1967-1979 Cologne V6 bellhousing to fit a 4cylinder transmisson. That is a pretty wacked out and inefficent way to convert a weak 4 cylinder trans to a V8.

    The Cranield adaptor is less than 200 bucks, and allows a V8 trans to fit ---> a 2.3, not the other way around.

    There is a Brazillian adaptor (listed in the post below) to fit a 5.0 ---> 2.9 or 4.0 Ranger ToyoKogyo trans. That then allows you to use a 4 cylinder trans if you find a 2.6/2.8/2.9 OR 4.0 Colgne bellhousing, any thing from 1967 to 1979, the C7, D4, or D9 bellhousings allow you to use a 4 cylinder trans (with another adaptor for the 1979 D9 2.8 trans, its an SROD)


    Even if you have made , perhaps, a reversed version made of the Cranfield adaptor to fit it to a SBF...your starter would clash with the V8 block.

    When the 1975 Mustang II V8 came out, they used a new smaller bellhousing to fit the 4 cyl 2.3 SR4 trans to the V8, but at that time, Ford used a 148 or IIRC 141 teeth flywheel or flexplate to make it work. At that time, no-one thought of down grading to the previous years 1974 Colgne V6 bellhousing, which definatley works.

    Fords Engineering department back then didn't have access to internal slave cylinder clutches like they did from 1988 onwards, so they wiisely decide that the Mustang II V8 bellhousing was as small as they ever got.

    So before 1988, there wasn't the space in the back of the V8 to go below a 148 or IIRC 141 flywheel/flexplate.

    The 5.0 can therefore take anything with a Cologne V6 gearbox pattern, A4LD, 5R55 N, S, E or W.


    Here is a way, but its only a transition to a slightly bigger than 4 cylinder bellhousing.


    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...77646-AOD-swap

  5. #5

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    i have some what the same issue i know the bell housing will not fit the 302 but how do i find a bell housing that will match my 302 and my ford bronco 2 transmission

  6. #6
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Generally ANY 2.3 transmission will not live long behind most 302's. I understand the budget constraints, just understand it's a time bomb waiting to explode.

    The other issue is the 2.3 transmission ratios also are generally much steeper than the V8 ratios and so honestly they don't work that well anyway.

    Although again not the best option IMHO, but better than spending $$ to mate a time bomb up to your new 302, the SN95 V6 T5 will bolt up to the 302 and as long as you don't drive like a Mad Man or have super high power V8 mated to it, the transmission will hold up pretty well. These are still available in many junkyards and in most cases can be picked up for a reasonable $$. Use car-parts.com to help locate one based upon price and/or distance. Good luck!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
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  7. #7

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    I understand that. I will someday buy a new transmission and much more but for the time being just getting it on the road is my goal. also its a manual transmission the tk5. does that make a difference?

  8. #8
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Huge difference.

    3.35:1 low vs 4:0

    0.68:1 od vs 0.80

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stever View Post
    I understand that. I will someday buy a new transmission and much more but for the time being just getting it on the road is my goal. also its a manual transmission the tk5. does that make a difference?
    The Luiz Camilo adapter link below. Its a bit of an act getting to it, click on "Giulia Brasileira - Luis' 1974 Alfa Romeo GTV V8" on the side bar

    http://www.rickwrench.com/index79.htm


    Rick Wrench from Ford Six Performance has a close friend from Brazil who makes the adapter to fit 302/5.0 Pushrod Windsors into Alfa Romeo GTVs, Spiders and Fiats.





    See 7th and 8th picture down in this link

    That's the adapter and IIRC rightly, the M5OD Toyo Kogyo 5 speed (or whatever the Cologne 4 Liter V6 Ranger/Explorer manual gearbox was for whatever year, there were Mitsubishi and other stick shifts, but what was done on the bell-housing adapter fits the A4LD as well)

    Its really freekin' compact, and takes the standard 1974-1996 Capri/Mustang II/ Fox/ Ranger Aerostar/ Explorer 138 flex-plate or flywheel.

    The 138 flex-plate or flywheel has to be re-drilled to the 6 bolt 3" pitch center spacing, and just needs the right 28 or 50 oz Detroit unbalance weight riveted on to ensure it suits whatever factor your Windsor 4.2/5.0/5.8 has on it.

    In a similar way, you can fit the whole 2.3 Lima four gearbox to a Windsor whatever OHV V8 255/302/351 etc.

    The basic strength runs out at about 205 lb-ft of torque if you are gentile for the German made 4 speed ET 78's,


    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    Huge difference.

    3.35:1 low vs 4:0

    0.68:1 od vs 0.80



    With the T5's it' s the close ratio gear set and main shaft bearings that got it up to taking the factory 320 lb-ft the last of the Australian 2002 5.0 XR8 Falcon V8's made. They were just 1999-2001 Explorer/Mountaineer engines with mods to handle all the juice the earlier HO 5.0 cams could make. With ratings of up to 295 hp, the export 5.0's to Australia were heaps more fortified than the 215 of the last XLT 5.0 Exploder engines.

    A lot of work was done by Borg Warner Tremec and BTR trans internationally to make a proper off the shelf T5 that can handle the racket. A stock 4 cylinder set of ratios won't last long, it loads up the main-shaft each shift, and there is way too much gear to gear over shoot forcing the gearbox casing. Any type of T5 gearbox case can be made to handle 320 lb-ft, but IMHO, the best T5 cases are the later ones.

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