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  1. #1

    Default 1986 2.3l computer ran carb

    I just recently bought a 1986 mustang lx as a daily. Upon inspection I found a harness that has been butchered by previous owners. Google search informed me that this carb was governed by a computer. I can find no information on exactly how to either tune or completely remove. If anyone has this information I would be greatly appreciative.

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member webestang's Avatar
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    I have that same set up. I sent my carb to guaranteed carbs in Florida and had it rebuilt for $168, relocated the TFI to the fender, took the emissions stuff off and added a tube header.
    Here is some info on the Carter YFA.... http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Cart...al_ep_317.html

    Scotty
    1985 Fox Notch 4-banger Ranger tube header Eastwood Royal Blue
    1988 Fox LX 5.0 AOD Vert BBK 170mph speedo Candy Apple Red
    1999 Mustang Coupe V6 Auto Chrome Yellow -Daily Driver.
    Past Pony's.....
    68 Coupe Inline-6 3-Speed-Man. Primer
    78 II Hatch 302 3-Speed-Auto Sunroof Black
    81 4-Eye Coupe 4-Banger 4-Speed-Man. White

  3. #3

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    Well this is what I'm seeing. No tfi
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  4. #4

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    Yep 100% it's not on distributor


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    FEP Super Member webestang's Avatar
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    And from the photo not a Carter YFA feedback. PO must have spliced in a non-feedback carb and used a different dizzy and ignition. I've seen 2 bbl swaps as well.
    The Carter YFA's are finicky.

    Scotty
    1985 Fox Notch 4-banger Ranger tube header Eastwood Royal Blue
    1988 Fox LX 5.0 AOD Vert BBK 170mph speedo Candy Apple Red
    1999 Mustang Coupe V6 Auto Chrome Yellow -Daily Driver.
    Past Pony's.....
    68 Coupe Inline-6 3-Speed-Man. Primer
    78 II Hatch 302 3-Speed-Auto Sunroof Black
    81 4-Eye Coupe 4-Banger 4-Speed-Man. White

  6. #6

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    I was debating 2 barrel


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  7. #7

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    It's a 2 barrel


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  8. #8

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    Looks like PO put a DSII distributor in and wired it to GM HEI using stock coil, common swap for DSII in order to use TFI coils (google duraspark hei conversion).
    That carb looks like the holley/weber 5200, used on earlier 2.3 (judging by the water assisted choke, I'd say it's a 70's model). My 2 cents, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by dvldrmmr View Post
    Looks like PO put a DSII distributor in and wired it to GM HEI using stock coil, common swap for DSII in order to use TFI coils (google duraspark hei conversion).
    That carb looks like the holley/weber 5200, used on earlier 2.3 (judging by the water assisted choke, I'd say it's a 70's model). My 2 cents, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    You're exactly right on the ignition system. I figured it out mid afternoon. It's half assed, using extension cord as wiring and sliced harness everywhere. However I didn't know carb model, so thank you on that


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    FEP Super Member webestang's Avatar
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    Extension cord.........

    Here is a PDF of the carb.... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives...Carburetor.pdf

    I do believe if you want to keep that carb you can upgrade to an electric choke that will perform better than the water version.

    Scotty
    1985 Fox Notch 4-banger Ranger tube header Eastwood Royal Blue
    1988 Fox LX 5.0 AOD Vert BBK 170mph speedo Candy Apple Red
    1999 Mustang Coupe V6 Auto Chrome Yellow -Daily Driver.
    Past Pony's.....
    68 Coupe Inline-6 3-Speed-Man. Primer
    78 II Hatch 302 3-Speed-Auto Sunroof Black
    81 4-Eye Coupe 4-Banger 4-Speed-Man. White

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by webestang View Post
    Extension cord.........

    Here is a PDF of the carb.... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives...Carburetor.pdf

    I do believe if you want to keep that carb you can upgrade to an electric choke that will perform better than the water version.
    Thank you for information! Yeah I'll be removing the extension cord. I'm honestly trying to figure out if I should find an earlier harness or keep piecing this puzzle together. Know which years didn't have eec-iv?


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    FEP Super Member webestang's Avatar
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    I think the TFI carbed 4-bangers started in 83 and ran through 86. 79-82 had the 2bbl. and non-feedback carb like you have.

    Scotty
    1985 Fox Notch 4-banger Ranger tube header Eastwood Royal Blue
    1988 Fox LX 5.0 AOD Vert BBK 170mph speedo Candy Apple Red
    1999 Mustang Coupe V6 Auto Chrome Yellow -Daily Driver.
    Past Pony's.....
    68 Coupe Inline-6 3-Speed-Man. Primer
    78 II Hatch 302 3-Speed-Auto Sunroof Black
    81 4-Eye Coupe 4-Banger 4-Speed-Man. White

  13. #13

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    What exactly else does the eec run on the 86?


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    FEP Super Member webestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfj0002 View Post
    What exactly else does the eec run on the 86?


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    The computer runs the TFI module that is connected to the dizzy and a IAC control on the carb.


    Ford Ignition Systems
    Attached Files Attached Files

    Scotty
    1985 Fox Notch 4-banger Ranger tube header Eastwood Royal Blue
    1988 Fox LX 5.0 AOD Vert BBK 170mph speedo Candy Apple Red
    1999 Mustang Coupe V6 Auto Chrome Yellow -Daily Driver.
    Past Pony's.....
    68 Coupe Inline-6 3-Speed-Man. Primer
    78 II Hatch 302 3-Speed-Auto Sunroof Black
    81 4-Eye Coupe 4-Banger 4-Speed-Man. White

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by webestang View Post
    The computer runs the TFI module that is connected to the dizzy and a IAC control on the carb.


    Ford Ignition Systems
    If that's all it controls then I should be able to remove all the bs sensors then


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  16. #16
    FEP Super Member webestang's Avatar
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    Should work but I don't know for sure.

    Scotty
    1985 Fox Notch 4-banger Ranger tube header Eastwood Royal Blue
    1988 Fox LX 5.0 AOD Vert BBK 170mph speedo Candy Apple Red
    1999 Mustang Coupe V6 Auto Chrome Yellow -Daily Driver.
    Past Pony's.....
    68 Coupe Inline-6 3-Speed-Man. Primer
    78 II Hatch 302 3-Speed-Auto Sunroof Black
    81 4-Eye Coupe 4-Banger 4-Speed-Man. White

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by webestang View Post
    Should work but I don't know for sure.
    I mean it's a rigged. I have house hold piping with sensors being added to them. Suppose I'll rewire it back to way I found it then pull eec


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  18. #18
    FEP Super Member webestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfj0002 View Post
    I mean it's a rigged. I have house hold piping with sensors being added to them. Suppose I'll rewire it back to way I found it then pull eec


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    That's what I'd do, hack jobs are no fun.

    Scotty
    1985 Fox Notch 4-banger Ranger tube header Eastwood Royal Blue
    1988 Fox LX 5.0 AOD Vert BBK 170mph speedo Candy Apple Red
    1999 Mustang Coupe V6 Auto Chrome Yellow -Daily Driver.
    Past Pony's.....
    68 Coupe Inline-6 3-Speed-Man. Primer
    78 II Hatch 302 3-Speed-Auto Sunroof Black
    81 4-Eye Coupe 4-Banger 4-Speed-Man. White

  19. #19
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    The YFA Feedback carb computer is a 100% Speed Density CFi or EFI type system, but intergrated into a stock 1-bbl carb. Many 4.9 liter F truck and E van in line sixes, the front drive 2.3 OHV, and rear drive Ranger/ Mustang Capri 2.3 OHC engines ran that way from 1983 to 1986.

    Search https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=yf...HcbN8ge9-pTYCA

    Its possibly the least helpfull factory systems ever, due to


    1) the YFA being a little bit difficult to dial in in any of its YF 1951 to 1967 applications, and the revised YFA had a headstart in complication with its parts.


    2) then Ford adds the Fuel Control valve, and its more difficult again.


    Carburetor with feedback means and system
    Document Type and Number:
    United States Patent 3906910


    A carburetor having a fuel metering restriction is provided with air bleed valving means for varying the pressure at one side of the metering restriction to thereby change the metering pressure differential across the metering restriction and consequently vary the fuel-air ratio of the combustible mixture discharged by the carburetor to reflect changes in engine operating parameters.

    A carburetor controlled by a pulse width modulated duty cycle operated solenoid has a main metering rod and an idle bleed valve spring biased against a bracket carried by the solenoid armature. The armature is spring biased to a rich position against an adjustable stop and is pulled by the solenoid coil to a lean position against a portion of the solenoid coil assembly. The entire coil assembly is spring biased against a stop which is adjusted to establish the lean position of the metering rod and bleed valve.

    During engine operation at low induction passage pressure, a carburetor main metering rod and idle bleed valve are reciprocated between a rich position and a lean position in response to energization of a solenoid according to a pulse width modulated duty cycle, while during operation at high induction passage pressure, the metering rod and bleed valve are moved to the rich position by a piston/spring combination.
    Reply With Quote
    The 2.3 OHV in line 4 cyl Tempo/Tracer/Topaz had a variation on the 1bbl YFA Carter, but it was a Holley 1945/ 1946 based carb called the Holley 6145. Although very similar looking, the carb is different, there is no metering rod in a Holley 1-bbl carb, it uses a normal close limt Holley jet.

    The information on this carb is wrong. It doesn't use a pulse width modulated duty cycle operated solenoid, but the explaination is right.

    https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-issue.668379/

    The 6145 is the same as a 1945 only with electronic feedback (Wrong, xctasy 07/02/2017, but the explantion, correct for YFA Feedback carb). This carburetor incorporates a duty cycle solenoid which provides a limited regulation of air fuel ratio in response to electrical signals from the spark control computer. The solenoid meters the main fuel system and operates in parallel with the conventional fixed main metering jet. When there is no electrical signal applied to the solenoid, the valve spring pushes upward through the main system fuel valve, fully uncovering the solenoid main metering orifice so that the richest condition exists within the carburetor for any given air flow. If a full 12 volts is applied the solenoid will close giving the leanest condition.

    This solenoid can not be bypassed so bottom line is this will not work without the spark control computer and all related parts. These carbs were a pain in the neck when new it was the beginning of the computer operated vehicle but about 8 years before the manufactures got it figured out, simplified it and went to fuel injection.

  20. #20
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Oh, sorry, "Mixture Control Solenoid", or MCS. No longer serviced part, sort of like Photobucket refusing to help you post photos...

    I was serious about the Carter YFA carb. To add to these complicated 35 year old veteran carbs with check valve and variation prone issues already AND THEN add a very sophisticated EECIV control module was, um, optimistic....Greg K from Ford Six.Com said it best

    "Was there ever a less helpfull feedback carb system....I doubt it!"

    As a utility maintenance worker, I did work on Liquid Propane conversions, and the Ak Miller writen TSB manual said this trouble some piece could be jumpered by an Impco Fuel Control Valve, which then allowed the EECIV computer and MCS to behave normally, but it would be remote controlled by another system, Impcos Command Module.

    MCS-8 Ford 1 Barrel YFA Pulse Solenoid 1983-86 Ford & Mercury 4 cyl., 1983-84 Ford Truck 4 cyl.




    The Holley 1-bbl 6145, 6149, 6153, look the same as the YFA Feed Back Carb, but are not the same, and don't have the Mixture Control Solenoid.


    Ford's generic 4 cyl 2.3 OHC replacement part is

    E4PZ-9S565-C

    Walker 318-2006 still supply it



    Its Standard Motor Part MX-33

    "http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Standard-MX33-NEW-Mixture-Control-Solenoid-FORD-MERCURY-1983-1986-/282029461641"

    MCS-9 Ford 1 Barrel YFA Pulse Solenoid 1983-86 Ford Truck 6 cyl.

    No longer serviced

    But its Standard Motor Part MX -32

    "http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mixture-Control-Solenoid-Standard-MX32-fits-1983-Ford-F-150-4-9L-L6-/162474041769?hash=item25d43521a9:g:0hIAAOSwjDZYmbf 0&vxp=mtr"

    See https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=49168






    Its basically fine untill the Pulse Width Modulated Mixture Control Solenoid goes on holiday. Then it retards igntion to a set amount, and the EECIV goes into a Skylab orbit, and crashes because the TFi, O2 sensor and MCS cant work within normal limits. The idle surges, and the miles per gallon goes up to 460 Big block level....


    Reverting to the pre 1983 2-bbl carb system requires a little work, because the front wiring is pretty much TFI/EECIV.

    You have to follow Walking Tall's De Emission-Ize-Ation post, and add a non feedback carb.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-thread/page5
    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Black spaghetti and brain out...




    ... and the CFI throttle body and TFI distributor (yes, the crankshaft is @ #1's compression stroke TDC, lol)...




    I swear the front of the car raised about 1/2" after removing all this $hit...


    If legal, any 350 or 500 cfm 2-bbl Holley can be rejetted, and its a cleaner carb than the Holley Weber 5200 or 6200 series.


    Like this

    [img]http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc501/xecute6/xecute6099/David_Vizards_sohc_EAO_p_69_Holley2bbl_%20Carb_to% 20HW_intake.jpg
    [/img]



    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...b-swap-dilemma

    The diagram is in line Pinto and foreign Falcon X-flow relevent only.

    But a Durasprk/ 4412 500 Holley swap can make well over 150 hp with ease if the right cam, igntion and carb settings are used.


    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...otential/page3

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    I favour the stock 2300 ohc block and head combo. Its the worlds easiest build up!

    All you need to do is copy and elaborate on the 130 tp 155 hp 2-bbl engine combos in David Vizards early 2000 Pinto work, and remember that a 2300 OHC has 15% more potential for power and torque anywhere in the rev range. The cam set ups were ex USA (Sig Erson 134 and other suggestions)

    The basics of a 150 hp daily driver SOHC Ford were discussed with the small 2.0 Pinto version back in 1983 to 1988 by David Vizard in his book Modifying Fords SOHC.

    The 2000/2300/2500 Lima engine is a wide bore spacing, four bearing head, tall deck siamesed bore version of the ''Pinto" OHC 1300/1600/1800/2000.

    In that book, the stock 5200 carb was able to be gasflowed up to the same CFM as a 350 cfm Holley 2300 series 7448 carb with just a few mods. With the cam technology then, the right cam and work to exhast and head porting, the stock 2-bbl intake manifold could flow brilliantly, and yield 130 hp easily. If a 500 cfm Holley 2300 series 4412 carb is added with Racer Walsh adaptor, well over 135 hp is possible, and the stock EGR/AIR/US emission bits could be left.

    The 2300 is a good 15% bigger, and what stood for streetable performance then on a 2000 cc in the 80's would be a great 155 hp streetable today.

    The peak head and carb CFM figures, cam profile, and exhast requirements to make 155 hp just have to be obtained. Even the feedback 6500 series Weber can be taken out with subtle mods to allow those kind of 350 cfm figures, allowing your street 2300 to look almost entirely stock.

    On the Pinto with Holley Weber 5200/6500, they have a funny bracket. Sorry, A is not really of any concern to us here. I shoulda been more clear.


    https://www.scribd.com/doc/26804743/...s-David-Vizard

    Page 70

    Accelerator Bracket A
    Throttle B
    Kickdown C





    The whole throttle linkage linkage from the Autolite/ Motorcraft carb needs to be attached to the Holley 2300 linkage, by bolting, flitching, or by some safe, prudent method that doesn't have stuff falling off into the active parts of the throttle shaft, tv rod, accelerator cable, or Cruise control cable.


    Like this



    On my low mount Locar style adaption, I duplicated the Ford AOD like Chrysler downshift cable by using a Rochester carb throttle and a brass window opening shaft connected by very good brass screws cut down and locked into place.






    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...size-for-a-2-3
    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Although EAO Pinto 2000 related, the needs of a Lima 2300 aren't any different. Both have an exceptionally good 2-bbl intake manifold.

    See Page 70 from https://www.scribd.com/doc/26804743/...s-David-Vizard




    Read the whole carburation section first.


    Power valve 4.0
    Power valve channel restrictions need to be drastically reduced from 59 thou to 17 thou.


    Carb frothing due to vibration makes modifications nessecary.

    Jets at 130 hp flywheel net ( up 40% from the stock SOHC or just 10 hp up from a well worked 5200 Holley 2 liter Pinto engine) need to be 56's.

    I do feel a 500 cfm 4412 will provide just what you are looking for on a 2300.


  21. #21

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    Xctasy you are now my hero. I probably will start again on Wednesday on my day off as I just got a lot of parts to aid in my drive ability. Hopefully in the thread it covers fuel pump change over as I just got an electric one.


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  22. #22
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Fuel pressure must be limited to less than 7 psi without hurting flow.

    Normal low pressure early CFi Mustang GT automatic fuel pumps are a good source.


    If you already have a fuel pump, then you'll have to be carefull to ensure it scavenges out the last ounce of gas.

    Holley's latest in tank fuel pump I really like, but its 450 ping

    http://www.hotrod.com/articles/holle...-pump-install/

    Some of the early Ford Mustang 5.0 M code CFi autos had a low pressure pump intank, and a higher pressure pump outside, and its the only stock system I like....all others are unable to scavenge down reliably, especially if replaced with an aftermarket pump. Then there's the enertial fuel pump cut out, and the return line and tank vent. There is a lot in making a safe electric fuel pump system.


    I like the pre EFI carb Ferrai system, high volume, low pressure (4.2 psi). Safe as flamethrower in a fountain. I'm sure its a lot less safer, but I just love the

    On a carb instillation, you need a return line to lower the pressure, not regulate the flow. If you have an EFI style Mallory 250 fuel pump, you'd run a fuel return as big as your fuel supply line to your carb. If its less than the gallons per hour specs on a Mallory 250, you'd then look at the a line smaller, the same as the vapour line from the tank. It would have to be steel or rated rubber, and deposit fuel below the fuel filler, preferably the way it does on a factory instillation.


    In a full accelleration launch, any return line fuel has to go into the tank in a manner that doesn't create aerated gasoline at the pickup point to the fuel pump. In an accident, there should be a inertial cut out, and an oil pressure cut out to any electric pump fuel flow.

    A great system for running an EFI 80 psi fuel pump in a 7 psi Holley 2300 or 4150/4160 carb, is an equal bleed back, like stalwart 10 second Turbo 250 Falcon runner Does10s on another forum. He started off with a 350 Holley 2300 series carb, and eventually ran 423 rwhp and 11 second quarters on 16 pounds boost with it. So as long as the fuel pump has a Manley 4309 fuel pressure regulator and an equal line back to the fuel tank, a Holley 2-bbl will cope. Not the stock Holley Weber 5200, it dangerous with too much pressure due to the way its set up.


    The only thing with Holley 350 or 500's is the check valves, and how they cope with vibration.

    https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863

    Quote Originally Posted by MechRick
    .......


    IMG_1152.jpg



    IMG_1155.jpg



    IMG_1165.jpg



    IMG_1156.jpg


    The Holley 7448 2 bbl is a V8 carb. It must be modified to work on the 4 cylinder. There are two problems. Vibration, and vacuum signal. Vibration can cause the accelerator pump circuit one way check valve to resonate and pump fuel, even when the throttle isn't moving. The fix is to spring load the ball or pintle under the squirters, or chose a carb that uses the steel check ball instead of the rubber flapper valve in the float bowl. Vacuum signal problems happen with big venturis at wide open throttle and low rpm. The 4 cylinder only has power pulses (and intake pulses) every 180 degrees of crankshaft rotation. At low engine speeds, the air flowing past the venturis can reverse and flow backwards through the carb. With multiple passes through the venturis, the air will pick up fuel each time, causing a rich condition.
    https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f=...455497#p455497

    Quote Originally Posted by Does10s
    Rbohm,
    Holley Blue? We're already using a Aeromotive Tsunami pump! I think it should be good up to 850hp or so!
    We're using 1/2" fuel line both directions. Manley 4309 fuel pressure regulator.

    I did however find that I installed normal sized needle & seats in the float bowls. I did purchase some of the high flow ones awhile ago but installed them into the Holley 600. So the 450 did have them. Not sure if that's the problem, but I already installed them into the 450. Just need to get another set for the 600.......
    Later,
    Will

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Fuel pressure must be limited to less than 7 psi without hurting flow.

    Normal low pressure early CFi Mustang GT automatic fuel pumps are a good source.


    If you already have a fuel pump, then you'll have to be carefull to ensure it scavenges out the last ounce of gas.

    Holley's latest in tank fuel pump I really like, but its 450 ping

    http://www.hotrod.com/articles/holle...-pump-install/

    Some of the early Ford Mustang 5.0 M code CFi autos had a low pressure pump intank, and a higher pressure pump outside, and its the only stock system I like....all others are unable to scavenge down reliably, especially if replaced with an aftermarket pump. Then there's the enertial fuel pump cut out, and the return line and tank vent. There is a lot in making a safe electric fuel pump system.


    I like the pre EFI carb Ferrai system, high volume, low pressure (4.2 psi). Safe as flamethrower in a fountain. I'm sure its a lot less safer, but I just love the

    On a carb instillation, you need a return line to lower the pressure, not regulate the flow. If you have an EFI style Mallory 250 fuel pump, you'd run a fuel return as big as your fuel supply line to your carb. If its less than the gallons per hour specs on a Mallory 250, you'd then look at the a line smaller, the same as the vapour line from the tank. It would have to be steel or rated rubber, and deposit fuel below the fuel filler, preferably the way it does on a factory instillation.


    In a full accelleration launch, any return line fuel has to go into the tank in a manner that doesn't create aerated gasoline at the pickup point to the fuel pump. In an accident, there should be a inertial cut out, and an oil pressure cut out to any electric pump fuel flow.
    I pretty sure it has a mechanical pump currently. I will check for a return line tonight if I have any energy left. I trade some stuff and ended up with a stock efi fox fuel pump, will this be enough for the 2 barrel?


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  24. #24
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Maybee, Its likely to cost a lot unless you can get it gratis.

    This works

    https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863

    Quote Originally Posted by MechRick
    Got the fuel pump installed this weekend. I originally ordered one for a 2.3L Mustang, but the housing dropped down, interfering with the steering gear. Reordered one for a Ranger 2.3L, and scratched my head for a few minutes, because it interfered as well. For a minute, I thought I was going to have to run an electric, which would be a step backward in reliability. I've seen trail vehicles stranded when the electric pumps failed. I ran one on my Samurai, but kept a spare in the glovebox.

    Then I realized the Ranger application flipped the pump upside down. Duh.

    P6130032.jpg

    It still may interfere with the power steering pump/bracket though.

    Next problem. The fuel bowl points the fuel line at the valve cover. Had to swap fuel bowls to get the correct orientation.

    P6130029.jpg

    4x4's should use a center hung float bowl.

    P6130030.jpg

    Bent a fuel line and attached a new 5/16" hose to the pump inlet.


    P6130031.jpg




    I've had Explorers, Nissan's and Toyotas, and don't trust electric pumps. Just a bad idea. If being stranded is your thing....

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    Maybee, Its likely to cost a lot unless you can get it gratis.

    This works



    I've had Explorers, Nissan's and Toyotas, and don't trust electric pumps. Just a bad idea. If being stranded is your thing....
    Switching to electric will? Do you have link to your quote? The pictures aren't working


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