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  1. #1
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Default Original headlights?

    Thought this might be the best spot to ask this. I was tinkering in the garage today and pulled down the box with my headlights and hardware to clean them up for when the car comes home from the paint shop. I was expecting the headlights to be mismatched at best and possibly some burnt out too. I was quite surprised to find that all four sealed bulbs were not only working and in overall good condition overall, they were a perfect matched set of Wagner non-halogen bulbs. The markings on the lamps and everything about them is matching.

    My thinking is that these may actually be the factory original 79 headlights. Since Halogen bulbs took over the automotive world in around 1980 or so, it would seem probable that these are originals. I tried to search for that info and the consensus seemed to be that Ford used Sylvania or GE bulbs, not Wagner. It seems improbable however that someone cared enough to keep all four bulbs identical and of the original type given the car was hardly pristine in other respects. The car was just ten years old when I bought it and stripped it down, so it is conceivable that the headlights were still original. At any rate these seem to be a very nice set of early bulbs.

    Anyone have any insight or can confirm or debunk this? Are these bulbs super rare and of value to those who want perfect restorations?

  2. #2
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Some pictures for further reference.

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  3. #3
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    I've been doing a bit of research trying to decode the markings on these headlights. The DOT code for a sealed beam is H, the numbers following that indicate the year of DOT approval; or in other words, the year of regulations that the bulb complies with. So these being marked 79, are most likely the four original "eyes" for my coupe. That seems pretty cool, but I now am faced with a question of whether I should put them in or save them to help out someone who want a perfect restoration. Hence my earlier question. Are these of value to anyone? Does this really matter for accuracy in a restoration? My car is so far from original I can run anything in it for bulbs and would be more than happy to pass these to someone who has a higher need of them.

  4. #4
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    MCA only requires matching headlights. They were not many suppliers in the early days of the rectangular lights. I don't know when the actual halogen bulbs came out which are more common today and I know they were used in 84. Only a thoroughbred car would bennifit from them and it would need to be an early car.
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  5. #5
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Thanks, that's kind of the impression I was coming to on these. They may be cool, but of no particular value. Still, I think I will put them away and go buy some new replacements. Maybe at some time someone will be searching for just such a unicorn. I would ideally like to go with LEDs, but have not seen anything I like for a price I'm willing to pay. Most likely I'll just pick up a new set of Halogens.

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member roush235's Avatar
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    BMW Rider: You have done some excellent research, perhaps work that has never been done before. I would like others to weigh in because I am not completely sure of my response. But, I think I agree with the sentiments noted.

    I don't know about the "Sylvania or GE" comment. I often think back to the fact that the 79 Mustang was selling very fast, and perhaps Ford was sourcing parts from "wherever", especially for generic parts like headlights. So having Wagners, especially given all the evidence you have, seems reasonable.

    From a MCA perspective, they should be non-halogen and matching. That somewhat vague tidbit suggests that a particular brand, and that brand only, was not specified at the factory.

    As for value.... someone like me would have been interested. As it stands I have a matching set of Wagner repros on the car. There would not be much demand for these, just someone crazy (like me) who is into stock stock stock, early cars. Headlights being inexpensive I would suggest setting them aside and running something newer. But I don't consider them "unobtanium" or of great value, so you can do what you like.
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
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  7. #7
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roush235 View Post
    BMW Rider: You have done some excellent research, perhaps work that has never been done before. I would like others to weigh in because I am not completely sure of my response. But, I think I agree with the sentiments noted.

    I don't know about the "Sylvania or GE" comment. I often think back to the fact that the 79 Mustang was selling very fast, and perhaps Ford was sourcing parts from "wherever", especially for generic parts like headlights. So having Wagners, especially given all the evidence you have, seems reasonable.

    From a MCA perspective, they should be non-halogen and matching. That somewhat vague tidbit suggests that a particular brand, and that brand only, was not specified at the factory.

    As for value.... someone like me would have been interested. As it stands I have a matching set of Wagner repros on the car. There would not be much demand for these, just someone crazy (like me) who is into stock stock stock, early cars. Headlights being inexpensive I would suggest setting them aside and running something newer. But I don't consider them "unobtanium" or of great value, so you can do what you like.
    That's pretty well where I'm at with these. There may at some time be that one individual with a really nice all original car who might appreciate them. I was impressed at how nice the condition of them is as well given the age. The set that came with the Pace Car nose I bought are all mismatched, over-sprayed with paint and in generally poor condition with the reflective finish peeling inside some, and one being burned out. They are halogens, but will be going in the trash as they are no longer worth using. Like you stated, new replacements are inexpensive.

    The original set from my car will be tucked away safely should anyone ever need them.

  8. #8
    FEP Senior Member 83GTJIM's Avatar
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    From a MCA perspective, they should be non-halogen and matching. That somewhat vague tidbit suggests that a particular brand, and that brand only, was not specified at the factory.

    When did halogen become factory installed? I remember it being 1984 but I am not 100% sure on that.
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  9. #9
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    1980 was the year....well before '84. My 81 had them.

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member roush235's Avatar
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    'I think they were also on the 79 Pace Car. Perhaps that was their "trial run" introduction.
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
    79 original owner six cylinder coupe
    MCA Gold Card judge for 3rd Generation cars

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Actually sourced from Lincoln, who were always pioneering lighting, 1938 (Lincoln-Zephyr V12 , integrated headlamps), then made illegal in 1941.



    1979, the first Quad Headlamped 1979 Lincolns Versaliies was the first legal QH headlamped US vehicle...it used GM's binacle, but with the years old GE devised the QH patent.

    QH headlamps, pat pending in 1959, were legal elseware from 1962.

    http://automotivemileposts.com/linco...lections.shtml
    The 1979 Lincoln Versailles was the first domestic car to include halogen headlamps as standard equipment.
    The 1979 Lincoln Versailles was the first domestic automobile to come equipped with standard sealed-beam halogen headlamps, which provided a whiter light with less electrical current load than conventional sealed-beam headlamps.
    In the past, the risk to civilians in possible airstrikes was the main reason for the adoption of non integrated, replaceable bulb headlmps in sometime about Pearl Harbour, scuppering the Lincoln V12's 1938/39 intergated headlamps in one fowl swoop.

    1984 integrated US headlamps, and then



    1996, legal US HID

  12. #12
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Final decision was to just go ahead and use these original headlights in the car - for now at least.


  13. #13
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    That looks killer! Love the blackout look across the front with the buckets and the grill. Are you using the PC/Cobra/GT lower valence?
    Jason Smith
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  14. #14
    FEP Senior Member BMW Rider's Avatar
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    Yes, it should be going on later this week once the stripes are painted on it.

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