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  1. #1

    Question Opinons on my current engine build and future plans?

    Here's a little background info. I have an 84 Capri that was originally a 4 cylinder but the previous owner v8 swapped it. I have no idea whats actually done to the motor. But i do know a few people that have worked on the motor that's currently in my car. From all the information i could gather, Its an 88 roller motor, Stock heads with some valve spring work. has a ford b303 cam, a weiand brand intake and a Holley brand carb with BBK shorty headers. That being said, the car feels powerless on the bottom end. and I don't understand why.

    I also have a bone stock 88 Mustang and it just seems so much quicker and funner to drive the only downside is, its not a four eye lol. But that's why I'm so confused.

    Before I found out the little information i do have about my motor, I assumed it was stock aside from the B cam. Doing some research I was planning on buying this combo. Trickflow TW 170 heads, Weiand stealth intake, and a holly 650 with a Lunati 512/512 242/242 cam or Comp Cam 35-302-8.

    Turns out... Like I said, I have a Weiand intake and a Holley carb already on the car. I'm not sure if they are the exact parts I was planning on buying... But if they are, I'm not impressed with it so far.

    The Capri is going to be a street car. I was aiming for 350-400 HP with the combo I had selected. But i still want the car to throw you back in the seat and burn rubber.

    Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2

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    Not sure what "valve spring work" means. Non-stock springs, or what?

    I'd go through the basics with what you have and see that everything is right (the best it can be):
    - compression test
    - look for timing chain slop
    - ignition condition and function, initial/mechanical/vacuum advance
    - carburetor condition and function, at least very basically, float levels and accelerator pump performance

    The B303 isn't normally enough camshaft (224 @ 0.050" & 112-degree LS) to produce soggy bottom end manners. What transmission and rear axle gearing does the car have? The only real improvement I see on your list are the cylinder heads. What you have already should be fine or able to be made to work well...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  3. #3

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    Sorry, if i sound uneducated. Because I am lol. But yeah I was told the valve springs were changed. There is a 7.5 rear end and i have no clue what gears are in it. And i will try what you recommended but ill have to google it first. Obviously I don't know the basics...Oops.

  4. #4

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    Here's a decent primer for DuraSpark II ignition checking/tuning: http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/03/timing/


    Holley float/fuel level checking/setting:




    Holley accelerator pump checking/adjusting:

    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  5. #5

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    I took the car to a buddies house so he could help me do everything and it turns out it was actually an engine he built lol. I knew he had worked on it but i didnt know he built the entire thing years ago. So he was able to tell me damn near everything I wanted to know. Stock heads, B cam, Weiand x-celerator intake, and a Holley 650 double pumper. Like you eluded to he just thinks its the 7.5 and the crappy gears.

    I actually have a 8.8 waiting to go in the car anyway so hopefully ill be happy with it. After that I'll still need to change the Heads, cam, and intake. Should I be able to hit my target? Also other suggestions are welcome, I'll retain all the information i can get.

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    The easy way to check gear ratios is to put in your tire size and engine RPM at 60 -- by GPS -- in drive if it's an automatic (not overdrive) or 4th if it's a 5 speed.

    Keep trying rear gear ratios in the calculator until your speed and RPM line up with what the calculator predicts.

    Given the age and the fact that it's a 7.5 it could be from some other type ford too. A factor that influences my thoughts on what ratio could be there. For instance, my grandma's 80 Mercury Monarch had a 2.50 rear gear, an I6, and no overdrive.

    afaik - below are some of the common less common 7.5 ratios. (I maybe thinking of 8.8's on some of these)

    The smaller the number the "higher" the gears. 2.50 is 2.5 turns of the driveshaft for one turn of the rear tire, for example.

    2.50
    2.73
    3.08
    3.27
    3.31
    3.41
    3.55
    3.73
    3.90
    4.10
    4.56

    If you hate RPM calculators you can block the front wheels, jack it up, put chalk on the driveshaft, take it out of gear, and turn the wheels while counting driveshaft rotations. (I used to turn the tires over 20 times and divide it out before speed calculators were so readily available. You have to watch it with open rearends and have a buddy help make sure the tires both roll the same way or the driveshaft may go nowhere.

  7. #7

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    Chances are very good that the very probable original 7.5 in it contains it's original ring and pinion. The real easy check is the door sticker "AX" code... and I betcha that code will translate to there being 2.73's in it.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  8. #8
    FEP Power Member Ethyl Cat's Avatar
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    Single plane intake on a 9:1 engine with a B cam can produce a reduced bottom end if not tuned properly.

    Ignition timing is going to be critical as is carb tuning with the weak signal the low compression and intake create.

    TFS heads are good but you will need to take measures to get the compression ratio up.

    Those EFI cams are not the right choice in many ways IMOP.

    Steve
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  9. #9

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    The TFS 170's are great heads, they've proven their worth over and over.... However if I were spending the money today they would be TFS 11R 190's. Better, room to grow, better valve angles, etc. You can also get them with a 54cc chamber to bump compression.....aaaaaaaaand you can mill the piss out of em.
    1984.5 G.T.350 had since 16y/o
    95 Cobra, Crystal White

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    It's all in the combination. You haven't stated but assume you have a manual 5 speed transmission. A soggy bottom end is probably due to a 2.73 rear gear and a single plane intake. Get that 8.8 in there and make sure it has at least a 3:27 gear or lower. Switch that intake for a good high rise dual plane as suggested above. For the heads, utilize what you want and don't overlook the GT40p units. You want something below 60cc combustion chambers. As for the cam, look at something a little over .500" lift like you're looking at but pick something with 108*-110* LSA. This will get you to your target and still be streetable.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking-Tall View Post
    Chances are very good that the very probable original 7.5 in it contains it's original ring and pinion. The real easy check is the door sticker "AX" code... and I betcha that code will translate to there being 2.73's in it.
    I went and checked out the tag, i couldnt read it though.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethyl Cat View Post
    Single plane intake on a 9:1 engine with a B cam can produce a reduced bottom end if not tuned properly.

    Ignition timing is going to be critical as is carb tuning with the weak signal the low compression and intake create.

    TFS heads are good but you will need to take measures to get the compression ratio up.

    Those EFI cams are not the right choice in many ways IMOP.

    Steve
    I went with those cams because i read other peoples builds and thats what they went with. What are your suggestions?

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supersonic G.T.350 View Post
    The TFS 170's are great heads, they've proven their worth over and over.... However if I were spending the money today they would be TFS 11R 190's. Better, room to grow, better valve angles, etc. You can also get them with a 54cc chamber to bump compression.....aaaaaaaaand you can mill the piss out of em.
    I actually already have the 170 heads. I picked them up for $600. I couldnt pass it up.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by bwguardian View Post
    It's all in the combination. You haven't stated but assume you have a manual 5 speed transmission. A soggy bottom end is probably due to a 2.73 rear gear and a single plane intake. Get that 8.8 in there and make sure it has at least a 3:27 gear or lower. Switch that intake for a good high rise dual plane as suggested above. For the heads, utilize what you want and don't overlook the GT40p units. You want something below 60cc combustion chambers. As for the cam, look at something a little over .500" lift like you're looking at but pick something with 108*-110* LSA. This will get you to your target and still be streetable.
    Sorry, youre correct its a T5. I was leaning towards 3.55s or 3.73s. Im either going with the Stealth or the RPM airgap, but im thinking stealth for more bottom end play time lol. And i got the 170s already for $600.

  15. #15
    FEP Power Member Ethyl Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supersonic G.T.350 View Post
    The TFS 170's are great heads, they've proven their worth over and over.... However if I were spending the money today they would be TFS 11R 190's. Better, room to grow, better valve angles, etc. You can also get them with a 54cc chamber to bump compression.....aaaaaaaaand you can mill the piss out of em.
    All else being equal, with the 11r heads you can gain 10-15 hp @6000 rpm but the TFS heads will average 10-15 more hp from 1000-6000rpm. More torque where you spend the most time with the tfs heads.
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  16. #16
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    Don't buy the Airgap, you will be better off with a Professional Products Typhoon. I would actually suggest a Professional Products Typhoon since it's the only intake with the rear coolant crossover I believe helps regulate the overall manifold temperature, where intakes without it I believe have tamps that run rampant. Also the ports are way bigger than the Performer RPM Airgap which look like they are sized for a stock 302 head port.

    For a cam I'd probably get a hydraulic roller in the 220-225 range @ .050", around .550" lift at the valve, 110-112 lsa, limit max rpm to 6k. I'd probably get a single pattern for the hard hit when you lay into it on the street. Yeah they sacrifice some power up top, but does the car live on the drag strip doing nothing but full throttle? Probably not even 1% of the time. But you need to figure out what gear you're going to use, and I would suggest a 4.10, but no longer than a 3.73. But that's my opinion.

    Cale

  17. #17
    FEP Power Member Ethyl Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cb84capri View Post
    Don't buy the Airgap, you will be better off with a Professional Products Typhoon. I would actually suggest a Professional Products Typhoon since it's the only intake with the rear coolant crossover I believe helps regulate the overall manifold temperature, where intakes without it I believe have tamps that run rampant. Also the ports are way bigger than the Performer RPM Airgap which look like they are sized for a stock 302 head port.

    For a cam I'd probably get a hydraulic roller in the 220-225 range @ .050", around .550" lift at the valve, 110-112 lsa, limit max rpm to 6k. I'd probably get a single pattern for the hard hit when you lay into it on the street. Yeah they sacrifice some power up top, but does the car live on the drag strip doing nothing but full throttle? Probably not even 1% of the time. But you need to figure out what gear you're going to use, and I would suggest a 4.10, but no longer than a 3.73. But that's my opinion.

    Cale
    Cale has the cam pretty close.

    218/220 .533"/.512" 110-111 LSA +4 is my first impression. Would be great with a 3.55 or a 3.73
    BBD PERFORMANCE
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  18. #18
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    If you ever have any intention of adding EFI to the mix, keep your Lsa at 110 degrees or more. Too much overlap pisses EFI off and makes it near impossible to get to run right.

    Dual plane all the way! Maybe a notched dual depending upon the target rev range.

    Timing and A/F are key to making an engine come alive down low and scream to the top.
    Last edited by erratic50; 06-24-2017 at 09:27 AM.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrossShot4 View Post
    I actually already have the 170 heads. I picked them up for $600. I couldnt pass it up.
    That's a pretty good deal, I think I gave $700 for mine and have them ported now. I'm still going to mill .025 off of them. You can mill quite a bit off of TFS TW heads because the valve angles keep the valve further away from the combustion chamber walls. Get some compression in that Engine, gear it low and it'll run great with the Weiand Xcelerator, trust me I ran one.
    1984.5 G.T.350 had since 16y/o
    95 Cobra, Crystal White

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by cb84capri View Post
    Don't buy the Airgap, you will be better off with a Professional Products Typhoon. I would actually suggest a Professional Products Typhoon since it's the only intake with the rear coolant crossover I believe helps regulate the overall manifold temperature, where intakes without it I believe have tamps that run rampant. Also the ports are way bigger than the Performer RPM Airgap which look like they are sized for a stock 302 head port.

    For a cam I'd probably get a hydraulic roller in the 220-225 range @ .050", around .550" lift at the valve, 110-112 lsa, limit max rpm to 6k. I'd probably get a single pattern for the hard hit when you lay into it on the street. Yeah they sacrifice some power up top, but does the car live on the drag strip doing nothing but full throttle? Probably not even 1% of the time. But you need to figure out what gear you're going to use, and I would suggest a 4.10, but no longer than a 3.73. But that's my opinion.

    Cale
    From what i can gather, the Performer RPM and the RPM Air Gap are 2 different intakes. With the Air Gap being higher performance than the Performer. The Typhoon compares to the Edelbrock Performer so wouldn't the Air Gap be the more powerful choice?

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethyl Cat View Post
    Cale has the cam pretty close.

    218/220 .533"/.512" 110-111 LSA +4 is my first impression. Would be great with a 3.55 or a 3.73
    To be quite honest. I really have no idea how cams work. So the numbers are kind of confusing.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    If you ever have any intention of adding EFI to the mix, keep your Lsa at 110 degrees or more. Too much overlap pisses EFI off and makes it near impossible to get to run right.

    Dual plane all the way! Maybe a notched dual depending upon the target rev range.

    Timing and A/F are key to making an engine come alive down low and scream to the top.
    Ive been considering it. If i do go EFI, it will be done with Fitech or Holley Sniper.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supersonic G.T.350 View Post
    That's a pretty good deal, I think I gave $700 for mine and have them ported now. I'm still going to mill .025 off of them. You can mill quite a bit off of TFS TW heads because the valve angles keep the valve further away from the combustion chamber walls. Get some compression in that Engine, gear it low and it'll run great with the Weiand Xcelerator, trust me I ran one.
    If I mill them does it mean i have to use a lower lift cam? I have the Xcelerator now but i know there i more power to be made if i upgrade.

  24. #24

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    Not necessarily, TW heads are actually more forgiving when it comes to piston to valve clearance. If you keep your current cam I don't foresee you having any issues. It's still always a good idea to check. A good dual plane intake will no doubt offer you more torque through your usable power band but if you put a 3.73 or 4.10 gear in the 8.8 before you install it you're not going to notice the tq loss as badly.
    1984.5 G.T.350 had since 16y/o
    95 Cobra, Crystal White

  25. #25
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    We all know how many times cars have made way more peak power and torque than the 5.0L EFI of the foxbody's pinnacle.... but go outran.

    Even on a track it still comes down to the average to the wheels in the rev range being used.

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