Amp of stock alternator 84 GT?

[vxr500]

60, 65, or 70?

[erratic50]

AFAIK, max on a stock Mustang was 60. Tbirds had a 65 but you have to reclock it in order to make it fit.

[vxr500]

Ok, 60 is all I could find for a 1g without plug

[erratic50]

In the 90's and early 2000's I bought two 65A 88 Tbird alternators for next to nothing because they didn't fit anything else. then I'd clock them and put new brushes and bearings in. When I was young and first starting out with my family and barely had the cash to keep my car on the road even at junk prices I was mighty thankful for my ability to recognize how I could make one off cheap parts fit and also for my car that seemed like it was going to run forever.

If it had 1/2 the life back that I beat out of it racing for cash in college it probably would have never needed any engine work in my lifetime.

A testiment to turning up a stock car then leaving well enough alone.

[KevinK]

You can rebuild them for higher amp output. There are limits to about 100 amps. I'm not sure if they really put out that much and there is not a wiring upgrade to go with it. I never had one fail. All of this is if you want stick with the stock look.

[erratic50]

That's a ton of power from a stock appearing alt.

Anyone have details on how to do it, what mods are required? What's the max for the stock wiring?

[Haystack]

Stock wiring is a single 10 guage with is only good for a maximum of 40 amps continuous. Lots of guys have fires if they do an upgraded alt and dont touch the wiring.

Go 3g if an upgrade is worth it. The stock alt is okay with no big stereos or electronics. You want anything more, then do it right.

My 3g put out over 75 amps at idle. Under load it actually hit over 160 amps and it was a parts store taurus replacement. My stock setup only pushed 20 amps.

[erratic50]

I've ran huge amplifiers for years but my stereo spends most of its time turned way down.

Ive always ran a 800-1000 CCA battery to help carry the load for a song or two.

i see upgrades in my future. What year Taurus alternator?

[xctasy]

1993-1999 Taurus, some F150 4.9 trucks, some Panther frame Lincolns. Both i6's 3.3 from 79 to 82 in Capris and Mustangs, and everything V8 from 1978 to 1993, if you have a serp belt.

Because I'm an I6 er, there is some 130 to 200 AMP I6 upgrade info thrown in there too


(Mike 1157 http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...elt-conversion

JackFish https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=62869 )


http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...g-3G-read-here

PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE POST BEFORE ASKING QUESTIONS!!!

Had to start this thread since there is much misinformation and confusion about the 3G alternator upgrade. This is not an install thread, just a guide on where to get the alt you need, a wiring diagram, and pulley sizing. All photos and some of the text is courtesy of Ryan at FordFuelInjection.com.


There are 3 different mounting styles for the 3G alternator that can be used as an upgrade on other vehicles:


If you have a 65-86: or anything with v-belts, you'll need a Pivot Mount w/ 8.25” ear spacing alternator. Some 90, any 91-92, and some 93-99 non DOHC Ford Taurus will be able to donate it's alternator to your truck. You may also be able to use one that fits the 87-92 serpentine setup (Pivot Mount w/ 7.00” ear spacing) on your v-belt truck but some may have fitment issues with smog pump location. The Pivot Mount w/ 8.25” ear spacing can be swapped into:
1965-1986 V-belt Mustangs
Other V-belt vehicles that can adjust to an 8.25” wide Pivot mount alternator

A wide-eared Taurus alt will ONLY fit a 302 or 351W if it is a V-belt setup since it's wider than a serpentine one.

Comparson between Narrow-Eared and Wide-Eared:


The following only applies to a 302 (5.0) only!
If you have no external regulator: you have a 2G alternator. This is an early serpentine style. This can only be replaced with a Pivot Mount w/ 7.00” ear spacing alternator. Minor bracket clearancing may be required. This can be found in the following cars:
93-99 narrow-eared non-DOHC Taurus
94-95 V8 Mustang
94-00 V6 Mustang
94-97 V6 T-Bird/Cougar
95-98 Windstar
91-94 V6 Lincoln Continental.
The early serpentine car and truck alts on Ryan's site are interchangable but the plug and charge stud are clocked differently to fit the wiring to the bracket better. The Pivot Mount w/ 7.00” ear spacing can be swapped into:
1965-1995 Mustangs
Other vehicles that use a 7.00” wide Pivot mount alternator
It looks like this:

Clearancing the stock bracket to fit a large case 3G:

Pic courtesy Helmut Roner.

A side mount alternator will not fit any 1965-1995 Mustangs.

Here's a great way to tell the difference between a 95A and a 130A:


You can also get 160 amp alternators, with NO core charge and cheaper than a new 130, from Ryan right here.

Plug Clocking: Each style may have the rear plugs clocked 3 different ways to fit their various vehicles better. They will still fit no matter the clocking but you can remove the case bolts, and reclock the rear to get your optimum position.



Charge Cables: When you swap from a 1G or a low output 3G to a 130 or more amp 3G, although you do not NEED a larger charge cable such as a 2 Gauge, it is a great idea. Smaller wires/cables cannot always handle such a load and they tend to heat up, some to the point of melting the wire and could start a fire. ALWAYS make sure you use a megafuse rated at above your alternator amperage.

Pulleys: For pulleys, you can either re-use your old one, which sometimes you may need a very small washer to use as a spacer if it rubs in the 3G case at all, or you can get a different sized one. It all depends on your needs. A smaller pulley will spin the alternator faster at idle to create maximum output. A larger pulley will allow the engine to rev higher without driving the alternator to fast. Large 3G alternators are safe to ~15,000RPM max. Alt RPM = Engine RPM x Alt Pulley Diameter ÷ Crank Pulley Diameter.

Wiring Diagram:

You can make your own or buy a complete one from here: http://oldfuelinjection.com/index.php?p=67

Factory Carb Users:
If you have a Factory Ford carburetor (Holley model 4180) with a wire that connects directly to your 1G alt to your electric choke, get a 12 volt electric choke for a Holley 2300/4150/4160 and swap it out. Then wire the new choke to 12 volts from any wire that is hot when the key is turned to run.

This post will continually be edited as information pops up. Please post any errors you find so this can be THE thread for 3G interchange information.

Versions of this thread are also hosted at:
Full Size Bronco.com:
http://www.fullsizebronco.com/forum/...ad.php?t=55169[/b]

https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=62869

There are 2 options for an ammeter. Inductive or shunt. An inductive is like an inductive timing light. You have a probe that clamps around the wire you want to read and it. The tool has some sort of amplifier in it to boost the signal enough to read on a meter. This is common now days because electronics make them much more practical and accurate. They are also nice for spot checking because you dont need to interrupt the circuit. A shunt style is just reading a voltage drop. You insert a conductor with a known resistance (and heavy enough to take the full load) in series (in line) with the circuit you are measuring. You then connect a simple volt meter on either end of this conductor. This conductor can be just about anything and work it just depends on how accurate you want it to be. If you just wanted to know charge or discharge you could simply connect a volt meter at either end of a piece of wire. If you wanted to know exactly you would get what they called a precision shunt which is a terminal block that is precisely designed and calibrated. A 100 amp 50 mv shunt would read 50 millivolts with a volt meter connected at each end and 100 amps being pulled through it. It would read 25mV at 50 amps and so on. The shunt can anywhere in the system. The issue is the size of the wires. The typical car ammeter had an internal shunt which means that you are running the full load through the dash which means your amp meter and all the wires have to be heavy enough to take the load. You remove your 30 amp alternator (which had a 30 amp meter and wires) and install a 60 amp you could easily be running 60 amps through your whole dash on 40 year old wiring that was originally only rated for 30 amps. The easier way to do it would be to mount the shunt closer to the source like between the alternator and battery and then get the proper meter for the dash and at that point all you are running into the car is a few millivolts so you really dont have to worry about the wire size. I would much rather have a volt meter and again in that case you are not trying to carry the full load through you meter.

[xctasy]

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...g-3G-read-here
"http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?29434-3G-Interchange-Facts-If-you-re-thinking-3G-read-here"

The biggest problem with the 2G alternator is the power connectors (spade type) and harness. They're fire starters. The 1G has an external regulator. They both also have an external cooling fan and exposed fan blades (<100A). @ the plastic "finger" guard.

The 3G has a lug connector for power, and internal fan and regulator.

I think the electrical inards (rectifier, stator, etc.) are also improved in the 3G.

Read all of the following links

For 2.3's

One more piece of info for those 2.3T and N/A guys, it looks like some information is wrong on this swap. If you have a small case 1G (7 inch pivot mount) you must use a small case 3G a least on early 2.3 N/A motors or even a pre 1979 Mustang. The reason is after reading information on this site I did not measure the alternator for my swap (2.3T into a 2.3 Ford Pinto) and I got the wrong size alternator. It's not a big deal because it's from a pick and pull but it's a good idea to measure twice buy once. Oh the information about the V-6 alternator from a 1995 Mustang V-6 is right on however.It should fit. I'm concerned about some of the harness mod's though, it should be a known fact that cutting the harness is not needed in the first place as the stock connectors on the voltage regulator can be removed from the plastic connector and with a double male end simply connected together and then taped. Or you can just remove the ends and soldier them as one circuit. The tool used is a small standard screw driver or even one from an eyeglass repair kit. Using a jumper wire of any kind is not a real repair in the first place it's great to test circuits but that's it.

For I6's 78 to 83

JackFish

https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=62869

For Mike1157 in line six serpentine conversion

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...elt-conversion

For all other Serpentine belt 5.0's

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...g-3G-read-here

"http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?29434-3G-Interchange-Facts-If-you-re-thinking-3G-read-here"


Clarko's link has the following dead links.
http://rothfam.com/svo/3g/
http://www.oldengine.org/unfaq/3ag/3ag.htm
http://www.bcbroncos.com/3ginstall.pdf

ok here's what i have attached below the 8.jpg is the wiring that is in the car now for that alternator. the 3g is what im putting in the car now. i need to know how to wire up the 3g to the old wiring

This post was exactly what I needed to do the swap on my 85. Thanks a bunch.

Done the mode according to the upper diagram.
Works great, even though the amp needle barely moves now, and i have to find a way to clean up the mess on and around the starter relay

[Haystack]

Its a fun and super easy swap. Dont let the clocking scare ya, and dont waste time with a high end expensive installation harness.

To re clock, unbolt the three long screws, turn alt until the screws line up again and you are done, test fit it first to make sure it went the right way.

I had to cut off a small triangle shapped rib on the stock alt bracket, if you remove the bracket it would take 30 seconds with a hack saw. I was lazy and decided to do it in the car with a 4" angle grinder. Its close to the gas lines, i was focusing on them so much a rubbed a spark plug wire. The new alt isnt threaded on the top hole. Buy about a 1/2" nut and bolt, about 1 1/2" long. I think i just went with a 2" long bolt and never got around to cutting it down.

For the wiring, you can either use a factor harness from a junkyard (they gave it to me for free at the junk yard, any 3g setup will work. Crown vic, taurus, mustang, 94-97 3.8 v-6 tbird ect). Most fuse holders at the yards also have a 175 amp fuse either on the side of the fuse holder or near the battery tray.

Otherwise, they sell repair harnesses for about $20 or less at any parts store. Everything goes on, color for color on the stock wiring at least for me. If you strip back the double "chargine wires" a couple inches, they splice down to a single black w/yellow stripped wire. This runs to a fuseable link, you can either hook it to the new yellow wire for voltage sensing or tape up the old wire and tuck it back in the old wires and loop the yellow wire to the discharge stud.

I bought a cheap "mega fuse holder" at napa and mounted it with some sheet metal screws. For $12, i might just use an old starter solinoid just to be cheap next time. I also bought some 6 guage "starter cables" for $8 right of the wall next to the battery stuff at any parts store. You can get these pre crimped in any length from 6" to 72" and not even have to splice the charge cable. I put the fuse holder next to the battery.

Worked fine for about 3 days, then my $13 junkyard alt died on me, ended up dropping $100ish on the taurus replacement at a parts store.

Basically, if you are frugal and okay with using junkyard stuff, you can do this swap for anywhere from $50 to buying everything new and spend about $250.

[wdanison43103]

When I did my 3G swap I used the conversion harness for an 86 mustang ($15 and comes with the connectors and resistor already connected). Get about 8' of #4 welding cable, lugs to go with that, megafuse holder (175a) and then various connectors for 18-10g wire plus a few inches of 12g wire (had it laying around, actually too big). The conversion harness comes with instructions and is super easy, just take the bracket off and grind a small chunk out of it. This way you can remove the external regulator but plug into the factory harness in case you ever want to switch back.


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