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  1. #1

    Default EFI to Carb swap

    As "mechanically inclined" as I am, I feel very inept asking this question, but here goes:
    '85 v6 convertible. Carbed 302 swap.
    I have 12v going to the Holley elec. choke, the bladed connector on the coil, the alternator, and oil pressure/water temp sending units. That's it... With the exception of, of course, the lighting.
    (You know what's next)
    I have 46,327 presumably useless wires in looms ALL OVER the car. I'm concerned about cleaning up the under-hood area.
    I'm asking for advice, direction, etc.
    A schematic-driven approach may not be best for me, but may be my only option...
    How bout this: what wires and which loom are my necessary wires in? Primarily lighting & anything I'm not thinking of.
    Anybody wanna take this one on?
    Thanks

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Default

    There's between thirteen hundred and fifty two
    and
    sixteen thousand eight hundred 'n' twenty one for DSO 63 cars (Memphis District Sales Office....it was only two hunderd twelve miles from Nashville)

    Only problem I see is that The Lovin` Spoonful is from DSO 13, New York....

    Don't think there's 46,327 wires or near to exactly, but it sure as heck looks like there is....I know what you mean.


    Beware, a 3.8 Vert is not a low option car, so you've got a/c, convenience light group, esp the different rear window heater system, Cruise control, intermittent wipe, etc to deal with.


    You won't be able to easily do anything to streamline the 5.0 transplant wiring...your gonna have to do a little jurors due diligence.

    Common thought it to follow Walking-Tall's CFi bypass, and "do minimum" to swap the ignition to Duraspark II if its a factory carb 302.

    Few thing everyone needs to know,

    1. Ford builds cars differently depending on engine and trans option. If you keeping it 5.0 4bbl/DSII/ C5 auto from a 3.8 CFi/TFi/C5 combo, then you'll most likey be okay. If 5.0/T5, then you'll have to re-splice a clutch or 85 neutral lockout set up. Or go back to an earlier non lockout system. It really should be the same way Ford planned it for 85 if your going manual. The 4180C requies some emissions and Solenoid supply, so it won't be as easy as the CFi/TFi ---> 2bbl/DSII conversion, but IMHO it won't be too hard.

    2. None of the FoMoCo or proprierty EVTM trouble shooting and electrical trace manuals that code the wire connectors are always 100% accurate. Ford uses a pinout to pinout and connector to wire codes that varies significantly depending on what induction system you have...CFI was not integrated into the wiring loom until later, but there were some variances with O2 sensors and transission neutral lock outs which were different. Additionally, it varies from momth to month, with different parts requiring different wiring. On a production line, thats easy to do. To track and trace, and modify or rationalise your wiring, well, you'll have no luck EASILY doing that because everything is bundled up, and the Sspecific earthing systems, even for simple things like dash speed control, intermittent wipe, or the factory emisdions relays, well, they were all potentially different. It only takes one or two extra or one or two missing wires to require you to split the main lines through the firewall.

    3. The wiring wasn't as great as other car makers wiring was...so take some advice from wraithracings Trey and another guy here, Brock....might be time to invest in a full rewire.

    The easiest option is to follow Walking-Tall's Essex V6 CFi/TFi to 2bbl/DSII conversion.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...e-build-thread


    See 84StangSVT's current 25 pager.....read wraithracing's comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by 84StangSVT View Post
    She looks soooooo clean with the harnesses out of there, but I need to focus and not get distracted by thinking I need to start smoothing things out before tackling the wiring. Not going for a show car, just want a nice car.



    One thing I made mental note of while I was removing the engine harness was how many odds and ends were just laying around unused. I think when I go back with the "new" one, I should eliminate all of the extra crap that was not hooked up to anything. That also goes for the dash harness. Seems like the intelligent thing to do.

    Since my car is a low option car, (no a/c, no convenience light group, etc.) there should be a chunk I can eliminate. There are also some things that are optioned that I'm going to remove. The rear defrost doesn't work, (someone made quick work of the defrost grid with a razor blade) so its wiring is getting eliminated. Cruise control and associated hardware will also be eliminated. I'm not going to go through the effort of repairing this system, at this time, as I don't use cruise very often and IIRC, these systems never worked that good anyways. All the wiring for the info center since I just don't see that ever being put back in and using it.

    One thing I don't quite understand is the gauge printed circuit. I would think that it only controls the gauges and lighting in the gauges, am I correct on that?
    Quote Originally Posted by wraithracing View Post
    Never have and NEVER WILL!!

    I installed two Painless kits, one in a 65 Mustang and another into a 68 Mustang back when I had my shop and after the second one SWORE I would never do it again.

    I have installed probably a dozen or so Ron Francis kits in older Mustangs, Chevelles, Camaros, and my Pace Car. Everyone one of them was much easier, simpler, and better than either Painless kits.

    Personally I will use the Ron Francis 24/7 kit on my 82 GT in the near future. I have chosen that because of the fuse box section being separate and having 18" of leads on it. That allows you to either pull it down from a location under the dash or attempt to mount it in the stock location with some modifications.

    If doing the install in most 4 eyes, I believe the 24/7 main hub (where all the wires connect to the fuse panel/board) can be mounted behind the dash on the driver side either on the upper section of the kick panel or on the actual firewall. Then you can drop the fuse holder itself down from there or mount it in the original fuse panel location. Or at least that is my plan.

    As I have mentioned before in other threads, all of these aftermarket kits will require you to retain/replace many of your OEM connectors as they either just are not available or are not included in the kits. The RF kit does come with the correct pigtails for the steering column switches, ignition switch, your distributor/ignition choices, alternator/regulator, and 4 Eye headlight pigtails. You will have to either reuse or buy new tail light sockets, turn signal sockets, etc. None of the HVAC pigtails are included nor any specific engine sensors, (unless you are buying their EFI kit).

    Their instructions are second to none IMHO and they walk you thru everything. Honestly it will take the average guy anywhere from a long weekend to a full week of nights to get it all run and installed, but it just depends on your experience, skill level, how you want to run (hide) the wiring, etc. Well worth the effort IMHO and that is why virtually all of my cars have their wiring in them.

    The only other kit I have considered is this: http://shop.infinitybox.com/Default.asp

    Allows you to do somethings like the current OEMs do, but with our older vehicles. Very cool and very high tech, but also NOT Cheap!


    Re-read pages 18 to 25

    Page 19 shows you most of the issues..and the comments...kind of like doing service on a jet plane, the strip down creates other problems, and when you see the low ball aged quality, you'll wanna buy the Ron Francis rewire kit.....


    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-Thread/page19

    All problems Brock experienced are the result of the subpar Ford wiring, and modifications to it. Your better off redoing the wiring if you want to minimise it. Its a tough job, but if you don't, the aged wiring with jumpered modification will most likey cause you a lot of other problems.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-Thread/page21

  3. #3

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    I have never felt dumber in my life.
    I may sell my car and buy a bicycle.

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Hey there, um, I never felt so stupid, it was all copied, most of it wronly, Seriously tho', none of this needed any thought, like most good stuff, its just other guys stuff reheated for resmelting.


    Dont buy a bike, Toid.

    You'll need

    1) an endless supply of vaselene,
    and

    2) you won't be able to use the old 85 wire
    to

    3) take down viscous thugs when you hidding behind bushes in the fetal position hoping to G""d they don't find the fuel pump earth line you jerked on to take down el hombre.

    If there's 46,327 wires or near to, you got 40 thousand tricks up your sleave if you lay lo...

    Great thing is, most of the wires are reduntant, and your wip will still ride.

  5. #5

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    Imagine dealing with a hydro boost abs and automatic electronically adjusted suspension, full analog dash with electronic speedo, all the lights inside and out, the little courtesy delay lights, automatic headlights and brights and the 30 or so wires running through the door for "keyless entry".

    It gets way way more complicated. Funny thing is, you only need about 10 of those wires on an efi setup to run the car, and half those just turn on the fuel pump.

    The hard part about wiring is knowing where stuff goes and if its needed. The chop and splice is the easy part. Its just when that stuff doesnt line up that it sucks.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  6. #6

    Default

    Yeah... I don't even have the info center. I eliminated that in lieu of a space for a gauge space.
    This is my 7th Fox, so I'm way beyond the novelty of "original".
    It's down to the lighting and such.
    I don't even have the cruise.

  7. #7

    Default

    My kinda car.

    My first car was a 86 cougar stripped down model. No passenger side mirror w hand crank no tilt with a 302 and digital dash.
    Last edited by Haystack; 06-07-2017 at 11:49 PM.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  8. #8

    Default

    What slays me are the circuits that take wire inside the cabin, then back out to the Bay (a few times) before working back around to the unit needing power/input.
    I like simple power/ground/signal setups.
    Oh well, nothing is "easy". We'd be ignorant & feeble creatures without struggle.

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