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  1. #101
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Okay.

    I've had no end of trouble with


    1. loop wires, and


    2. fusible links and

    3. diodes

    with my Japanese cars. Ford was doing the exactly the same stuff in the CFi to Port EFi area. It had to.

    The onboard systems worked because these three structures existed to change the operation of control systems. So when you go through 1983 to 1990 EFi Fords, you have to take a step back and think about what it would be like if you were Ford, having to put all this new wine stuff into old wineskins. Ford deserve an award for how they solved very big problems with wiring protocols, and 1. loop wires, and 2. fusible links and 3. diodes was how they did it.


    I run my 12 volt accessory junctions for recharging Smart Phones, tablets, and running 55 amp road survey lights, and the Japanese put fusible links in everything. Just to make it safe, but it also gets you horribly messed up when you have to back track and re-establish the stock system when its no longer working due to age and current.

    Ford and Toyo Kogyo do this, so do some Japanese cars at the acessory level. Power drains then become a strange diagnostic problem


    A standard wiring protocol for all cable runners in buildings or in automative cables, is to be able to change a whole wiring system at one end by using a loop wire.

    This gets complicated when Ford or the techncial people who help us have the ablity to say "the wiring harnesses never changed". By adding a fusible link or loop wire at one end, a whole wiring loom effectively COMPLETELY changes.

    Ford did other changes with wiper dwell stalks and some other stuff for 1983 to 1986 model year stuff, so you have to take some time out to find what Ford did to help you avoid some blank alley time when rewiring a carb to 5.0 EFI SD or MAF vehicle. The four types of O2 sensor systems varaious kinds of EFi Foxes and SN95 Fox 4's used are important.

    When a part oxidises, loop wires become better methods to change a whole wiring schematic "without changing the the wiring".


    The problem is they then become like a "fusible link"


    loop wire 0:23/4:02

    This was a means of Ford keeping the whole variants of the O2 sensor types used the same, but the loop wire effectively undid a certain kind of MAF, non SD circuit.

    It looks very similar to the fusile link, but what is used is a gender variable O2 sensors used in the 1987 to 1993 Foxes. In this instance, Ford was adding OBDII stuff to the EECIV, and AOD, 5 speed, a MAF 87-93 would have the Speed Density protocols jumpered by loop wire. In 1991, the IAC and 02 sensors had PID details in some EECIV for real time data logging, and in 1990, Ford then had some major issues about how to deal with the IAC diode every CFi equiped 3.8 or SD 5.0 SEFi (ONLY CFi 3.8, and SD 5.0 SEFi, not the 5.0 HO, which didn't have an IAC !).

    This is what makes Fords a little more confusing, because the rocket science allows major changes to function by minor changes at the wring junctions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomustangs Published on Dec 11, 2014
    This video is for folks that might be confused with the 02 harnesses discussions on the net for 87-93 ford mustang 5.0 EFI cars. This video is useful for folks with 4cyl conversions for EFI V8 swaps or folks that are changing computers or transmission swaps from AOD and T5s. Ford made 4 different pinouts for the 02 harnesses due to the differences in the NSS circuit that ran from the computer thru dash harness and to the pedals. This is one of the frequently confused discussions on the net for mustang wiring harnesses and conversions. I explain all 4 different pinouts on one harness. Thanks for looking. GL!



    Now see http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...y-not-charging

    Quote Originally Posted by JACook View Post
    I don't recall whether your '86 is 5-speed or Automatic, but from some of the preceding, it seems
    you have a 5-speed.

    The 5-speed Fox Mustangs do not have a neutral -safety- switch. The later SEFI models do have
    a Neutral Gear -Sensor- switch, but I'm not sure the '86 had one. The NGS switch is on the top of
    the transmission, in the same place as the 5th gear switch that is used on models that have the
    upshift light. That switch is supposed to be closed in every shifter position except 5th. I believe
    the NGS is closed only in neutral.

    The only -safety- switch you should have on a 5-speed Mustang is on the clutch pedal.



    There are basically six connection points that need to be attended to, to get the ammeter working.
    Four of those are on the cluster itself, where the harness plug attaches, and where the flex circuit
    connects to the gauge. I generally like to give the entire flex circuit a bath in white vinegar, then
    a good rinse and dry. The corresponding pins in the connector can be removed and dipped in a
    small container of white vinegar, such as a shot glass. The wires are red/orange stripe, and yellow/
    light green stripe.

    I do the same with the gauge posts and nuts (but don't leave them too long in the vinegar, or the
    plating will come off the nuts). To soak the gauge posts, I remove the gauge and stand it up in a
    small glass of white vinegar with the posts down. Of course you want to mind that no part of the
    gauge itself is immersed.

    Once everything is clean and dry, I wipe some dielectric grease on every connection pad on the flex
    circuit and connector pins, as well as a bit on all the gauge posts.

    The other two connections are a bit harder to get to. They're in one of the harness connectors on
    the top of the pork chop brace under the dash. Those I like to remove the pins from the connectors,
    and dip them in a shot glass of white vinegar, then rinse and dry. Make sure the pins make tight
    contact, and coat with dielectric grease before putting them back in the connectors.
    and http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...5-fusible-link

    See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SpsSRGfDQI

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-fusible-links
    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    Here's some stuff from a guy doing the same.



    This is the power distribution from a '95 Mustang GT. I thought it would be helpful because it's how the factory essentially did the same thing.



    And this is my plan. I tended to err on the side of caution with lower numbered fuses just in case. I can always go up in number if I end up blowing fuses over and over, haha.

    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...SOLVED!!/page2
    [QUOTE=erockk;1817481]it wired into the connector coming off of the idle air controller.



    mine was in the wiring harness (not my engine but the best picture i could find)


  2. #102
    FEP Supporter vdubn's Avatar
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    xtacy, that is the exact video I watched this morning, that got me looking at everything. Just like he describes, the loop in my O2 harness is in pins 5 to 6, which as it turns out makes my O2 harness an AOD O2 harness. That was my initial reason for the research, was to determine if I needed to repin the O2 harness, to avoid damage to my EEC. As it turns out, since I have an 86 EEC harness (which was speed density originally), I don't even have any pins coming back to my EEC, so neither O2 harness will affect my EEC, which is good. My real question is do I need to have any signal/wire coming back to my EEC from the O2 harness? From all of the research I've done, this is not necessary.

    Here are a couple pics of each side of the O2 harness, first is the EEC side:
    Name:  EECHarness-side.jpg
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    Here is the O2 harness side:
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    85 GT Hatchback, T-Tops. Rebuilt 302, 10.6:1, Edelbrock Alum heads, Performer Intake, full EFI swap from 86, 3.73 Posi 8.8, 5 lug Cobra 13" fr and 12.6" rear disc swap, MM SubFrame Connectors, MM Panhard Bar, MM front A-Arms, MM rear control arms, Raceland Coilovers, T5 with Centerforce DF Clutch.

  3. #103
    FEP Supporter vdubn's Avatar
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    Now, as for O2 Sensors, I got these with my harness, and they look right, but they are 4 wire instead of 3 wire that should be with the 1989 harness. Does anyone know if I can run the 4 wire, or should I just grab a set of 3 wire O2 sensors from Napa?

    Name:  O2sensor.jpg
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    85 GT Hatchback, T-Tops. Rebuilt 302, 10.6:1, Edelbrock Alum heads, Performer Intake, full EFI swap from 86, 3.73 Posi 8.8, 5 lug Cobra 13" fr and 12.6" rear disc swap, MM SubFrame Connectors, MM Panhard Bar, MM front A-Arms, MM rear control arms, Raceland Coilovers, T5 with Centerforce DF Clutch.

  4. #104

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    I have eight 2amp chargers and a dash cam hooked up to my cigarette lighter. I have two quick chargers (pull up to 25 watts) for my personal phone and tablet. Another two for power bricks, two in the back seat for my kids to charge and use their tablets, and one or two extra.

    There really should be no reason to upgrade electrical for something that doesn't need more power then stock. The cigarette lighter uses about 20 amps.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  5. #105

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    The difference between a 3-pin O2 sensor and a 4-pin O2 sensor is ground isolation. Both are heated sensors,
    but the 4-pin type provides a ground wire for the heater circuit, and another isolated ground wire for the sensor
    signal. The 3-wire sensor ground is for the heater only, with the sensor return ground path coming through the
    exhaust system and engine, same as you would have with a 1-wire. As you might imagine, the 4-wire sensor
    can provide a cleaner signal.

    BTW, my late-85 CFI HO vert uses the 4-wire sensor, with the heater circuit controlled by the ECU. So Ford had
    several ways they implemented these things...
    Cheers,
    Jeff Cook

    '85 GT Hatch, 5-speed T-Top, Eibachs, Konis, & ARE 5-Spokes ... '85 GT Vert, CFI/AOD, all factory...
    '79 Fairmont StaWag, 5.0, 62K original miles ... '04 Azure Blue 40th Anny Mach 1, 37K original miles...
    65 coupe, 289 auto, Pony interior ... '67 coupe 6-cyl 4-speed ... '68 Vert, Mexican block 307 4-speed...
    '71 Datsun 510 ... And a 1-of-328 Deep Blue Pearl 2003 Marauder 4.6 DOHC, J-Mod, 4.10s and Lidio tune

  6. #106
    FEP Supporter vdubn's Avatar
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    So it sounds like I could just run the 4 wire sensors with my harness that only has 3 pins, correct?
    85 GT Hatchback, T-Tops. Rebuilt 302, 10.6:1, Edelbrock Alum heads, Performer Intake, full EFI swap from 86, 3.73 Posi 8.8, 5 lug Cobra 13" fr and 12.6" rear disc swap, MM SubFrame Connectors, MM Panhard Bar, MM front A-Arms, MM rear control arms, Raceland Coilovers, T5 with Centerforce DF Clutch.

  7. #107
    New User ID89GT's Avatar
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    Great thread so far. Just went through the entire thing haha..i also have an 85 Gt that i would like to make efi one day.. so far I have the gas tank and fuel lines already. Now sounds like I need to find all the wiring out of an 86 and an ecm and should be pretty straight forward it seems.
    1985 Mustang GT TTOP

  8. #108
    FEP Supporter vdubn's Avatar
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    It is pretty straight forward, but there are a good number of differences, and what I found that can really help, is if you are the one pulling the harness and disassembling the 1986 donor. I was not able to do that, so have had a ton of questions related to how things are assembled, which wires connect where, etc. The other difficulty, is A/C and Radio options. If you can find an 86 that has the same heater/AC options as your 85 (meaning both with A/C, or both without, or, heaven forbid, both with dealer installed AC... thats what my car had, and was virtually impossible to find a donor car in that situation). Same on the radio, and not because you have to keep the stock stereo, its just that the harnesses are different enough, and if the donor is the same, it simplifies a lot. You wouldn't think that these things affect a Fuel Injection conversion, but they are threaded into the dash harness and engine harnesses (at least the AC portion, the radio is just mentioned as a convenience thing related to the dash harness swap).

    I am down to the point of connecting everything up after cleaning up some of the harnesses. I didn't eliminate as much as I could have from the harnesses, mostly just because I didn't want to have to re-add something if I accidentally removed it.

    I am retaining one piece of smog equipment... the charcoal canister. I picked one of from an FEP member, along with the valve and sub-harness, so will be mounting and connecting that this week. I remember as a young car kid, removing all of this stuff as I had it in my mind that all "smog" equipment needed to be eliminated so you could get max power out of the car. Including the charcoal canister. Well, as I've grown, I realized that the canister really doesn't hinder performance in any way, and really will make it nice by eliminating gas fumes while the car is parked in the garage.
    Last edited by vdubn; 11-24-2017 at 11:55 AM.
    85 GT Hatchback, T-Tops. Rebuilt 302, 10.6:1, Edelbrock Alum heads, Performer Intake, full EFI swap from 86, 3.73 Posi 8.8, 5 lug Cobra 13" fr and 12.6" rear disc swap, MM SubFrame Connectors, MM Panhard Bar, MM front A-Arms, MM rear control arms, Raceland Coilovers, T5 with Centerforce DF Clutch.

  9. #109
    New User ID89GT's Avatar
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    Haha ya I hear ya there..more than likely I won't have the luxury of pulling it myself also since it's not exactly the easiest thing to find. Only questions I have are does the dash and rear body harness have to be out of a v8 car also or can they be any engine setup with efi? If I only need a v8 engine harness and the rest just need to be 86 only then might not be to terrible to get together.
    1985 Mustang GT TTOP

  10. #110
    FEP Supporter vdubn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ID89GT View Post
    Haha ya I hear ya there..more than likely I won't have the luxury of pulling it myself also since it's not exactly the easiest thing to find. Only questions I have are does the dash and rear body harness have to be out of a v8 car also or can they be any engine setup with efi? If I only need a v8 engine harness and the rest just need to be 86 only then might not be to terrible to get together.
    I think any rear harness will work, you just need to make sure that if you have a hatch, convertible, or notch, you get the specific rear harness for your vehicle, as the length of wires, and locations will be different. As to which engine, I don't think that will matter.

    In the end, I basically swapped every harness in the car to an 86 harness, other than the roof harness, hatch harness, and the dash harness.

    I wrapped up the fuel injection swap this week, with the MAF conversion, and I included the extra wiring from the fuel pump relay to the ECU, and also the VSS wires to the ECU. It was all very straight forward. I used this document (along with some others), and it worked perfectly:

    https://www.stangnet.com/2002/01/23/...ir-conversion/

    I will be connecting the battery this next week, and testing for fuel pressure, checking all of the dash and gauge functions, as well as make sure the lights all work. I'll report back how everything goes... hopefully it fires right up and runs decent.
    85 GT Hatchback, T-Tops. Rebuilt 302, 10.6:1, Edelbrock Alum heads, Performer Intake, full EFI swap from 86, 3.73 Posi 8.8, 5 lug Cobra 13" fr and 12.6" rear disc swap, MM SubFrame Connectors, MM Panhard Bar, MM front A-Arms, MM rear control arms, Raceland Coilovers, T5 with Centerforce DF Clutch.

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