86 Thunderbird 5.0 SD to MAF help

[Jackthemind]

I have been trying to do this for awhile. I keep finding conflicting information. For my 86 TBird do I need new heads and cam for the MAF conversion, I read that a non H.O motor will not run right converted. Do I need to worry about any differences with the A9P Mustang ECM in my Thunderbird?

Just trying to find a solid guide for doing this. Any links are appreciated.

Thanks.

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[Ourobos]

an 86 non-HO will have a different firing order then the HO, but it's batch fired, so might not make much difference. I'm not sure on the cam specs, but the mass air is usually more tolerant of wider LSAs so if anything it shouldn't be a problem.

[qikgts]

Check this link...

http://www.coolcats.net/modifying/massair.html

Hopefully it helps some.

[Haystack]

Dont bother with an maf swap, complete waste of time. The injector firing and camshaft will be different and just confuse the computer. At the very least, you need to do a cam/injector swap, bare minimum for it to run correctly. The firing order on the camshaft is different and will read the o2's incorrectly since the cam will open and close different from the computer controlling the injectors.

You can keep the intake, heads and exhaust, but it may hesitate a bit since it will expect more airflow and better throttle response. The computer is a plug and play swap with the maf harness upgrades, same as any other 86-88 sd motor.

Whats the want for a mass air setup on a stock 150hp car anyways?

[Jackthemind]

Dont bother with an maf swap, complete waste of time. The injector firing and camshaft will be different and just confuse the computer. At the very least, you need to do a cam/injector swap, bare minimum for it to run correctly. The firing order on the camshaft is different and will read the o2's incorrectly since the cam will open and close different from the computer controlling the injectors.

You can keep the intake, heads and exhaust, but it may hesitate a bit since it will expect more airflow and better throttle response. The computer is a plug and play swap with the maf harness upgrades, same as any other 86-88 sd motor.

Whats the want for a mass air setup on a stock 150hp car anyways?

Im planning a lot for the motor.

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[Haystack]

What heads will you be using? Those flat top pistons cant handle alot of big cams or heads. If you plan on going to h.o. motor or above, have at it. You will need at least a h.o. firing order cam to go along with the computer and 19# injectors. Anything bigger or smaller will require a completely different tune.

[erratic50]

The cam determines your firing order.

Back in the 70's and 80's guys would switch from a 302 standard firing order over to a 351W cam for a 71 Torino with no other changes and pick up 30-40 HP and gobs of torque - 50+ lbs. Partly because the cam profile for a W is bigger to account for more CIDs but also because of firing order. This is why the HO adopted the W's firing order.

Personally I wouldn't think twice about switching to the HO/W style cam and a Mustang HO computer. 1993 Cobra ECU requires 24lb injectors with a noncalibrated MAF. The Cobra had a 70MM - FIZF-12B579-AA MAF

[Jackthemind]

What heads will you be using? Those flat top pistons cant handle alot of big cams or heads. If you plan on going to h.o. motor or above, have at it. You will need at least a h.o. firing order cam to go along with the computer and 19# injectors. Anything bigger or smaller will require a completely different tune.

Gt40 eventually.

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[Jackthemind]

The cam determines your firing order.

Back in the 70's and 80's guys would switch from a 302 standard firing order over to a 351W cam for a 71 Torino with no other changes and pick up 30-40 HP and gobs of torque - 50+ lbs. Partly because the cam profile for a W is bigger to account for more CIDs but also because of firing order. This is why the HO adopted the W's firing order.

Personally I wouldn't think twice about switching to the HO/W style cam and a Mustang HO computer. 1993 Cobra ECU requires 24lb injectors with a noncalibrated MAF. The Cobra had a 70MM - FIZF-12B579-AA MAF

So do the H.O conversion then do the MAF conversion. Im trying to piece together the minimum I need to accomplish for a successful MAF conversion. Thanks.

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[erratic50]

You need to do a cam swap in order to run the HO based MAF computers. Just the firing order is good for quite a bit of torque- wish I could find the article where this was tested.... its old school from the late 70's or early 80's but it absolutely applies to any 8.2 deck motor. The W/HO firing order makes more --even with identical cam grinds.

Aftermarket computers are available -I know little about the non OE stuff myself.

You need
HO style cam - I'd call COMP if it were mine

The 70 MM Cobra MAF - part number above. Don't cheap out on MAFs, get a good one or it will run like sht.

A9L or A9P MAF computer and 19 lb injectors if you make under 320HP at the crank
Cobra ECU (or A9L or A9P with tuning board and software) and 24 lb injectors if you make at or under 400

Wideband O2 recommended so you can fine tune to a liveable tune using an adjustable regulator

You will want a better intake and bigger throttle body. 65MM Explorer body can be converted and works well.

Typhoon EFI or Procomp knockoff Edelbrock intake lowers flow better than the original and are the best bang for buck at 1/3 the price but require some cleanup to make them reach their potential.

i have a moats quarterhorse and Binary Editor in my A9L.

You will need headers. BBK equal shorties will be a good option.

bigger cats and mufflers are needed to uncork it too

[Jackthemind]

I appreciate all the responses and information. You said at or under 400hp for the cobra ecu, maf and #24 injectors. Should I just shoot for that as opposed to the #19 set up?

I also just came across an issue with my flat top pistons and gt40 heads as far as clearance. They are pushing for the tfs heads.

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[Jackthemind]

What heads will you be using? Those flat top pistons cant handle alot of big cams or heads. If you plan on going to h.o. motor or above, have at it. You will need at least a h.o. firing order cam to go along with the computer and 19# injectors. Anything bigger or smaller will require a completely different tune.

Will I have a clearance issue using a h.o cam if I keep my e6 heads? (I think I have e6s)

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[erratic50]

At and under 400 to the crank 24's are just fine. Run a wideband and watch A/F. You can always dial out some timing or add a little fuel pressure to fine tune it. Mcparts reman 1993 cobra ECU is the cheapest way.

86HO has E6 with flat top pistons and no notches - all Is good.

afaik the magic lift number at stock duration and near stock valve size that you cannot exceed is .495 lift (cam lift times rocker ratio). You can even run 1.7:1 rockers with a HO cam if the heads aren't shaved too far. Stock type gaskets and block decking assumed of course.

Retard or advance the cam based upon your desired result. 4 degrees advance is retardedly full of torque off idle until 5300-5500 then falls on its face. Retarded 4 degrees give up a little down low but will tend to pull 600-800 RPM more and sound a lot more bad ass while doing it.

street car I'd go 2-4 advance. Track car is go 2-4 retarded. Road course or strip. The HO's make too much down low and tend to spin coming out of corners when advanced.

good luck - have fun

[Jackthemind]

Thanks again for the info brother. Definitely going to study up on duration and lift. Not something I am familiar with. Ill be going the cobra route.

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[erratic50]

The mistake I see made repeatedly is building an air supply system that's awesome then starving it for fuel or flat out destroying the motor.

Spend the extra on an A/F gauge - its way cheaper than burnt engine parts, broken rotating assemblies, split blocks, or blown head gaskets. Or at least learn how to read plugs and check them while you are getting it dialed in.

Dont get me wrong - It's fine to tune something to the ragged edge - it's just not OK to lean out and ping/knock/detonate because of lack of fuel. Finding a balance right up by that edge gets you a motor that runs really hard and stays together over the long haul.

If you tune like I've described it's just like several of us aspire to--- don't cheap out on fuel. Get the premium. When you want to have fun, add some octane boost. Cheap assurance.

[Jackthemind]

The mistake I see made repeatedly is building an air supply system that's awesome then starving it for fuel or flat out destroying the motor.

Spend the extra on an A/F gauge - its way cheaper than burnt engine parts, broken rotating assemblies, split blocks, or blown head gaskets. Or at least learn how to read plugs and check them while you are getting it dialed in.

Dont get me wrong - It's fine to tune something to the ragged edge - it's just not OK to lean out and ping/knock/detonate because of lack of fuel. Finding a balance right up by that edge gets you a motor that runs really hard and stays together over the long haul.

If you tune like I've described it's just like several of us aspire to--- don't cheap out on fuel. Get the premium. When you want to have fun, add some octane boost. Cheap assurance.

I know I run rich right now with the 75mm tb. Thought it was 02s, replaced them. Still rich. Thats another issue im resolving. As far as a/f gauge I never thought to get one. In the process of building a completely after market cluster so I will definitely add one in.

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