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  1. #1

    Default Twisted wedge heads on 86 speed density motor

    From what ive researched the trick flow heads will work on a 86 with flat top pistons as long as no more than a .55 lift on cam. Has anybody run these with the speed density system? What size injectors and fuel pressure was used. Also what cam and lifters did you use. I would like a strong motor not a racer, I may just covert to a carb since ive got a intake sittin in the garage. Im all set buying a explorer motor or going maf. Any info or tips will be helpful.

  2. #2
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    I love my carbs- that is why I bought an '83. That being said, there is no way I would get rid of multiport fuel injection to run a carb. It is simple to build all the power you want and keep F.I. Wait for some of the fuelie gurus to chime in and they will set you on the path.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  3. #3
    FEP Power Member horsepowerjunkie's Avatar
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    I don't think a TW head will clear the 86 flat top pistons. I know from experiance almost any cam in a speed density car will run crappy. IMO, I wouldn't even consider swapping to carb on a driver. I've been fighting carb issues with my 82 Capri for over a year, so I'm going EFI! MegaSquirt!!
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by horsepowerjunkie View Post
    I don't think a TW head will clear the 86 flat top pistons. I know from experiance almost any cam in a speed density car will run crappy. IMO, I wouldn't even consider swapping to carb on a driver. I've been fighting carb issues with my 82 Capri for over a year, so I'm going EFI! MegaSquirt!!
    TWs should clear.

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  5. #5
    FEP Power Member CapriGT's Avatar
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    Why are you against a Mass Air swap? It's less money and work than the head swap.
    1980 Capri
    5.0 EFI Mass Air, Rebuilt T5, Centerforce Dual Friction, B&M Ripper Shifter, Aluminum Driveshaft, 5 Lug 8.8, Cobra Brakes, Maximum Motorsports HD Lower Control Arms 94GT Spindles, 94 Front Control Arms, B Springs, Tokico Shocks & Struts, MM Camber Plates

  6. #6
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    If you go carb I'll buy the computer harness!

  7. #7

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    A friend of mine has a set for a reasonable price, ive had several old school carbed chevys and find them fairly easy to tune, id prefer to keep my fi system if its possible to tune it to a cam&head swap. I would think its possible with the correct injectors and fuel pressure. Im looking for tried and true set up, if its not possible I may go maf or carb, just seeing if anybody has tried

  8. #8
    FEP Power Member Ourobos's Avatar
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    Not sure how big of a cam (how much duration) will clear with the flat tops, but it's not the heads that kill the speed density computer, it's mainly a cam with a LSA less than 114 degrees...
    1986 CHP SSP Coupe

  9. #9

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    I took a stock '86 bottom end with flat top pistons and installed the complete Trick Flow Top End kit.

    It came with:

    aluminum heads
    stage 1 cam
    roller rockers
    roller timing set
    pushrods
    upper and lower intakes

    I clayed it and had plenty of P to V clearance just like the guys at TF told me I would.

    They also told me what supporting mods I'd need to get the most out of this setup...

    70mm throttle body
    24 lb injectors
    190 lph or larger fuel pump
    1 5/8" headers
    adjustable fuel pressure regulator

    They also told me converting to mass air is a MUST using a 75mm meter...speed density just can not handle this amount of modification. Also, a tune would be needed to get everything right.

    They told me they would guarantee 360 hp at the crank since they designed this combo specifically for true flat top pistons and have put together many of these engines and dynoed them over and over again.

    Here's a link to my build... once there, feel free to look over all of the pages but skip to page #13 for the engine build. http://captocapri101.smugmug.com/Car...091526&k=Zz76h

    Hope this was helpful.
    '86 Capri 5.0, black with charcoal interior, 5 spd, fully restored, mildly modded.

    '86 Capri 5.0, white with black interior, C4, rotisserie restored, heavily modded.

  10. #10
    FEP Senior Member merk's Avatar
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    I find it odd that so many people are against the 86 motors the flat tops are the biggest plus of the motor adding that lil more squeeze .

    My 86 capri I did a similar combo . If staying speed density I suggest doing what I did and find your self a computer out of the newer speed density cars with the DA1 progam code on it . For a starting point it will help you a ton with better fuel maps etc .
    When i did mine it was
    Fresh rering & bearing 86 5.0L
    tw heads
    BBK SSI intake
    70mm bbk throttle body
    crane cam ( 444211) .530 int .530 exh lift 112 lobe sep (the cam now needs more duration)
    bbk shorties
    bbk offroad xpipe
    flow master american thunder catback
    stock 19lb injectors
    43 psi fuel pressure at wot
    The car had some surging at first but enlarging the air bleed hole in the throttle body (Drilling with numbered drill bits) and reseting the tps voltage to 0.89v and bumped intial timing to 14 degrees the car ran like a champ and made ok gas mileage I ran it like that for over 2 years then put a tweecer r/t on it and really started tweaking
    83 capri , 9`S on 17" 2003 cobra and DOT m/t radials and 91octane 408w "Blacky "
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by merk View Post
    I find it odd that so many people are against the 86 motors the flat tops are the biggest plus of the motor adding that lil more squeeze.
    With an HO cam and E7 heads I was right up against the limit I could find on the internet at the time (.100) The stock bored engine still had Ford headgaskets and the heads had never been decked... if either had ever been decked I don't think it would have cleared.

    That was on a "standard" engine, the HO's with forged pistons may be different... I doubt it though.
    198X Mustang 5.0 5-Speed, fastback hardtop - someday...

    1985 Ford Ranger 5.0, C5 Automatic, BW1350M, TTB D28, 31 spline Explorer 8.8, 3.73 gears, 3" BL, Explorer suspension, 31" Destination MT's.

  12. #12

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    86's had forged pistons. Very insightful topic, I've looked all all over with no concrete answer. Guess u just gotta take a chance sometimes

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fst86 View Post
    86's had forged pistons. Very insightful topic, I've looked all all over with no concrete answer. Guess u just gotta take a chance sometimes
    Yeah I knew the HO's did, I didn't know if they changed anything else about the piston aside from the piston material though.

    Mine was a non-HO out of some big generic late '80's car so it just had aluminum pistons.
    198X Mustang 5.0 5-Speed, fastback hardtop - someday...

    1985 Ford Ranger 5.0, C5 Automatic, BW1350M, TTB D28, 31 spline Explorer 8.8, 3.73 gears, 3" BL, Explorer suspension, 31" Destination MT's.

  14. #14

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    Alot of good info guys, thank you. If somebody has a maf set up for sale pm me. I was hoping to use sd but sounds like maf will be easier, ill research the mod, if anybody has a parts list for the maf that would be helpful, thanks again

  15. #15
    FEP Senior Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capri debris View Post
    I took a stock '86 bottom end with flat top pistons and installed the complete Trick Flow Top End kit.

    It came with:

    aluminum heads
    stage 1 cam
    roller rockers
    roller timing set
    pushrods
    upper and lower intakes

    I clayed it and had plenty of P to V clearance just like the guys at TF told me I would.

    They also told me what supporting mods I'd need to get the most out of this setup...

    70mm throttle body
    24 lb injectors
    190 lph or larger fuel pump
    1 5/8" headers
    adjustable fuel pressure regulator

    They also told me converting to mass air is a MUST using a 75mm meter...speed density just can not handle this amount of modification. Also, a tune would be needed to get everything right.

    They told me they would guarantee 360 hp at the crank since they designed this combo specifically for true flat top pistons and have put together many of these engines and dynoed them over and over again.

    Here's a link to my build... once there, feel free to look over all of the pages but skip to page #13 for the engine build. http://captocapri101.smugmug.com/Car...091526&k=Zz76h

    Hope this was helpful.
    Seems to be all pictures. Where is the text to read? Thank you...

    EDIT: Had to click on each picture. Awesome build. Wanted to know about this, because I have an 86GT. Everyone, is saying you have to fly cut the pistons. Mine is also a MAF conversion. I really only need a good set of heads and a cam that will work. It sounds pretty amazing that you got 360hp out of the motor. Impressive. I'm trying to get a beater so I can take apart this motor and see what is what. The PO added all the mods listed below and I have no clue if he did anything to the motor internally. It has some good power the way it sits and I'm still trying to figure out why he did the mods he did and why.
    Last edited by Johnny; 11-13-2012 at 10:43 AM.
    1966 Big Block Sport Fury.

  16. #16
    FEP Senior Member Porkchop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsepowerjunkie View Post
    I don't think a TW head will clear the 86 flat top pistons. I know from experiance almost any cam in a speed density car will run crappy. IMO, I wouldn't even consider swapping to carb on a driver. I've been fighting carb issues with my 82 Capri for over a year, so I'm going EFI! MegaSquirt!!
    What good are forged pistons if you're not gonna charge it or spray it? If it's just a daily driver that'll see little to no abuse, what's the point of forged pistons? The hyper pistons with 4 reliefs would work just as well and will hold up to some moderate abuse, ask me how I know. And I give a plus 1 on the megasquirt system.

    Quote Originally Posted by CapriGT View Post
    Why are you against a Mass Air swap? It's less money and work than the head swap.
    There will be others who'll disagree but in my experience, putting a cam in an EFI engine and going mass air is asking for trouble. Every time I've done this, I've ended up with a lean mixture that will burn your eyes out at idle. Forget mass air, over rated crap. Stay with speed density and go with a MegaSquirt system or the PiMP system... easily tuned with a laptop.

    I personally believe the TW will clear the stock flat tops if you don't use that big of a camshaft, if you're scared either have them fly-cut or swap them out for the hypers with reliefs (that's what I did). Get yourself a system you can tune yourself with a laptop, it's easier than you probably think it is. Tuner Studio has a built-in auto-tune feature that'll help make it easier, won't do start-up or idle tuning that well but it's not really that hard at all.

  17. #17

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    Lots of good information here. In the future, I'd like to get some TW's.
    Project "WinBacK" 1986 LX Hatchback
    - CA car, 5.0 w/5 speed
    - Cobra 17x8.5's + Modded Mach1 Chin Spoiler + 83-84 Hood & Scoop/85-86 "Blackout"+ FMS Mass Air Kit+ MM Clutch Cable & Quadrant + Fiore Cable Adjuster + MM SFC's+ Wild Rides "Battle Boxes" + Explorer Intake, Converted TB & Injectors, 70 mm Mass Air Meter + BBK Ceramic Shorties + 2.5" Bassani O/R X-Pipe & Cat-Back Exhaust w/ 3" Tips + 3L27 w/ Carbon Fiber Clutches​(out of retirement) + Pistol Grip Shifter + 99-04 GT Front/00 Cobra Rear Disc Brakes

  18. #18
    FEP Senior Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porkchop View Post
    What good are forged pistons if you're not gonna charge it or spray it? If it's just a daily driver that'll see little to no abuse, what's the point of forged pistons? The hyper pistons with 4 reliefs would work just as well and will hold up to some moderate abuse, ask me how I know. And I give a plus 1 on the megasquirt system.



    There will be others who'll disagree but in my experience, putting a cam in an EFI engine and going mass air is asking for trouble. Every time I've done this, I've ended up with a lean mixture that will burn your eyes out at idle. Forget mass air, over rated crap. Stay with speed density and go with a MegaSquirt system or the PiMP system... easily tuned with a laptop.

    I personally believe the TW will clear the stock flat tops if you don't use that big of a camshaft, if you're scared either have them fly-cut or swap them out for the hypers with reliefs (that's what I did). Get yourself a system you can tune yourself with a laptop, it's easier than you probably think it is. Tuner Studio has a built-in auto-tune feature that'll help make it easier, won't do start-up or idle tuning that well but it's not really that hard at all.
    Mine is converted to MAF and I'm experiencing the same thing,.. Lean condition. I just purchased this car and I don't think it was ever tuned to the mods that were added. You mentioned that it can be tuned with a lap top. What software is use and I'm sure there's a USB to OBD-I connector that's needed? Is a chip needed also?
    1966 Big Block Sport Fury.

  19. #19
    FEP Senior Member Porkchop's Avatar
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    To my knowledge you won't ever tune the factory ECM yourself, someone would have to do that for you with a piggy-back chip but others are here that know more about that than I do.

    I was speaking about MegaSquirt or PiMP, being tuned with a laptop running Tuner Studio. You'll need a good wideband O2 sensor, a laptop, Tuner Studio and a MS unit. If you've already got a laptop, then for about the same money you could carry it and have someone else burn you a chip. But for me, I'd rather be able to tune it the way I wanted, on the fly.

  20. #20

    Default Mass air must

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Seems to be all pictures. Where is the text to read? Thank you...

    EDIT: Had to click on each picture. Awesome build. Wanted to know about this, because I have an 86GT. Everyone, is saying you have to fly cut the pistons. Mine is also a MAF conversion. I really only need a good set of heads and a cam that will work. It sounds pretty amazing that you got 360hp out of the motor. Impressive. I'm trying to get a beater so I can take apart this motor and see what is what. The PO added all the mods listed below and I have no clue if he did anything to the motor internally. It has some good power the way it sits and I'm still trying to figure out why he did the mods he did and why.
    So changing heads will require going to mass air?

  21. #21
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    114 is a good number on cam. You can get by with less but not a lot less.

    Agree on PV clearance with a twisted wedge head. You have to understand what a twisted wedge really is. The valves are twisted compared to the stock intake valve angle - just look at the intake vs exhaust on these heads. This wedge unshrouds the intake valve and also yields usable pv clearance.

    Technically the engine will run with heads and stock injectors but it's a nonstarter to stick with 19lb injectors- they are max duty cycle at 320HP at stock fuel pressure. If you increase injector size you must tune-- period. And stock SD computers are rarely supported in any way in the tuning market. And jacking up the fuel pressure is begging for a fire- others here will attest to that -- post fire.

    AFAIK the cheapest way to support 24's is to get a 1993 cobra EEC-IV from a Mcparts store then follow the MAF conversion process and run your additional wires for a MAF. A 65MM throttle body and EGR spacer and a 70MM "stock calibration" MAF (NOT a reworked one) is what you will want - more than adequate. If you increase the size of the throttle body and MAF you might pick up a few HP peak but you will be down on torque across the entire rev range.

    Usually the lean at idle situations happen with recalibrated (aka broken) MAFs. Get a Cobra style - they work perfectly.

    I run E6 heads, a mild cam, 65MM throttle body, 70MM cobra MAF, 19lb/hr injectors, A9L ECU, BBK headers, 2 1/2" exhaust, etc, on my 86. My wideband tells me I run out of fuel and go lean at 5700 at stock fuel pressure. I've increased pressure and can get by with running it past 6000 and regularly hit the rev limiter even, but with upgraded heads or a better cam, etc, this would certainly end badly.

    I plan to go to a Moats quarterhorse and Binary Editor along with EV6 47lb injectors when I swap for AL heads and upgrade cam and switch to E85. I will land at around 11.5:1 compression. I have a 1990 longblock on the stand just waiting for my small chamber Edelbrock heads, etc....

    Good luck with your build!

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