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  1. #1

    Default Dyno tuning blown Tbird

    Took my car over to Accelerated Performance in Toledo Oh yesterday to do some tuning on their Dynojet to get car ready for its first trip to drag strip this year.





    It has a rebuilt 97 Explorer GT40P motor with all stock internals.The heads got a valve spring upgrade but are otherwise untouched, has stock intakes and throttlebody. I put in a TFS stage 1 cam,bolted on some BBK 1-3/4 long tube headers and slapped on a Vortech S trim blower with stock 8lb pulleys as the only engine mods. I am using 38lb injectors and it all runs on a plug n play Microsquirt from EFI Source. Something worth noting is I built the car with a 2.5" Y-pipe going into a SINGLE 3" exhaust from Stinger Performance designed for 2.3t Turbocoupes.

    First pull off the street the car only made 322hp/347tq with my own tune but we only seen about 5psi up to about 5000rpm then belt slip dropped it down to 3psi. It obviously peaked at 5000 just before the belt started slipping. The power on the graph dropped off a cliff after 5k.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK9ZlOrciio

    We made some adjustments to fuel and timing and threw on my 10lb pulley to see what would happen after about 4 other pulls. This only caused worse belt slip and we only seen 6psi at 5000 then fell off hard after that. It made 344/344
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p76lptC58hU

    I took the 10lb pulley off and beadblasted it to give it some teeth which helped for the last few pulls but it still slipped after 5200. Like this we seen 9psi up to 5200 then it slipped to 6psi for rest of the pull. Like this it peaked at 5200 and made 370/393
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92yYQOFKp9M

    At this point we called it a day after 10 pulls. Pretty happy with results and I learned some good info. At final power levels my injectors are only at 80% duty cycle so there is still plenty of fuel left to break the 400hp mark. We seen air temps of 200* on every pull and heat correction was pulling total timing down to 16*. I need to move the sensor out of the lower intake and put in discharge tube of the blower for a true{non heat soaked} reading. Then I need to move the air filter out of the engine bay and put inside the fender for cooler air. These mods should help lower the inlet temps and help us dial back in some timing. Then there is the belt slip....Im going to beadblast the lower pulley and bought an adjustable belt tensioner to try next. Tuner thinks if we could get a solid 10psi for the whole pull up to 6000-6200 with lower air temps it should make an easy 420-440 depending on how much timing we can add back in.
    Brian R. of Michigan
    83 TBird 5.0
    88 Ranger 2.3t
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...83-Tbird-build

  2. #2

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    Those aren't bad #'s all things considered. I don't know about getting your max power up that high with your other components, but the filter sucking cold air rolling down the street should help.
    83 Mustang GT , A5 5 speed, 31 spline Cobra rear, LMR TRX, 302 being built, currently stock motor
    84 Lx convertible 347, modded aod , and a power mirror with compass and temperature,

  3. #3

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    An intercooler would really help produce more power across the RPM range and allow you to keep producing it for a longer period of time. With some junkyard hunting you should be able to pick up a intercooler from any number of OEM cars and plumb it in with minimal expenditure. Fox Tbirds and Cougars rock. Good luck with the project!

  4. #4

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    Nice project!

  5. #5

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    I wish plumbing a intercooler was easier because Id do it in a second but just looking at the area around the blower I have no idea how I would plumb all that tubing with all those direction changes. Not worth it. I did order a UPR Powerpipe tonite so Ill at least be able to move the filter to inside the fender.

    Im going to bead blast that lower pulley tomorrow and hope for the best. Im not sure I want to dump another $300 on the 8 rib upgrade yet.
    Brian R. of Michigan
    83 TBird 5.0
    88 Ranger 2.3t
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...83-Tbird-build

  6. #6

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    Some ideas if you want to seek more power via more boost.

    I would modify the brackets to get more of a wrap on the supercharger.

    I would evaluate the belt grip vs other brands available.

    I would try to increase supercharger belt tension.

    I would try some dressing.

    I would try to knock any glaze off the belt with some 40 grit on a DA or hand sander.

    I would go to a larger crank pulley and a larger supercharger pulley to increase surface area while maintaining boost psi.
    Last edited by erratic50; 04-19-2017 at 03:24 AM.

  7. #7

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    I sent my blower pulley to Carbinite Racing Solutions today to get their special high friction pulley coating.
    Brian R. of Michigan
    83 TBird 5.0
    88 Ranger 2.3t
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...83-Tbird-build

  8. #8
    FEP Member never's Avatar
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    Default

    Try a Gates HD green belt too...that made a big difference with the small blower pulley on my 2010 CTS-V. Way more grip than a standard belt.

  9. #9
    FEP Supporter cb84capri's Avatar
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    How about water/methanol injection?

    Cale

  10. #10
    FEP Power Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm an ex Lab Technician, so just be aware...you can't mange what you can't measure.

    Its only worth it if there is a potential detonation issue to avoid. At boost ratios of 2:1 with a stock block and Explorer compression ratio or higher, there will be at some point.


    But for sure, from BMW M4's right up to piston US/ German fighter planes....

    http://jalopnik.com/how-the-absurdly...n-w-1760175847

    I've used it before using David Vizard method, detonation prone Pinto 2000's and log head 1960-1983 Ford in line sixes can take a lot of H20 if you are able to make sure each cylinder gets the right amount atomized. That's easy on a 2000 or 2300 Lima with there brilliant 2-bbl or the later EFI Turbo four hole intake manifolds. O n one hole log heads, aint no way it'll atomise each cylinder evenly, and you have to use pre drilled jets and an in line 45 psi supply...the smallest brass jets mean you have a lot of water going in a wide open throttle...on a turbo, 60% of fuel load isn't too much if its H20 and methonol or alcohol.

    Get it wrong, and the system will hydraulic, so you have to have a lock up via a Bosch MAP sensor and starter solinoid.

    Best 50/50 is https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...0008/overview/


    but you have to be blQQdy carefull.

    Aquimist make a reall good $EXY system.


    I've always made my own, but EFI engines have to use properly atomised water/meth, and it will almost certainly kill your engine if each 8 cylinders don't ket 100% atomised and even vapor to each port...that's why people screw up often with a scratch build home made system on a non turbo, but supercharged EFI car.

    https://www.reference.com/science/ch...d1cf3b9f940d63

    There are a vast amount of specfic gravities and kinds of ways to base checkj jetting before you start. Usually, an MSDS sheet will give you the Specific Gravity, and you can calibrate your own system... as long as the washer motor can handel the conentration. If it fails, so does your Anti Detonation Injection system.



    Specific gravity: 0.996 is close to water at 60 degrees F
    MSDA sheet http://www.msanet.com/prism/pdfMSDS/SDSGM/10272.pdf

    Gasoline kills the washer motor, and water doesn't flow like gas.

    Then squirt into a known ounce cup, and time untill full. 45 psi is the normal delivery pressure for this test, and the normal curves for flow are in water injection publications. http://www.aquamist-direct.com/806-0...ing-pwm-valve/


    Aquamist use pulse width modulation, so it isn't the same as it flows 2.4 times the rate of a Holley jet the same size.

    but it gives you the idea.

    Compared to Holley jets, a 47 thou (1.2 mm) jet at 45 psi with PWM (200 Hz cycles per second Pulse width Modulation) flowing methanol flow huge rates...its 400 cc/min, while Holley quote 171 cc/min using there test method with 0 .786 SG gasoline.


    Tested my way, with Unchamfered holes, a 15.74 thou hole (0.40 mm) flows about 25 cc's per minute, or near to 25 mililiters per minute at 45 psi for. Its pretty well difficult to go below that size unless you have access to jewlers cutting tools.




    See https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...ion-newbe.html
    Last edited by xctasy; 04-20-2017 at 05:37 PM.
    Ethyl Cat:-"The thing that really prohibits people from EFI is knowledge and fear. If you are not comfortable with engine sensors and electricity, EFI is not for you. If you are.... jump in, the water is fine! "
    JPS Mustang http://www.nzmustang.com/Images/Hist...cecars/jps.htm
    JPS Experience https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqk18A-ibjA
    My 1st Fox http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...=1#post1722961
    6VI6's @http://www.xecltd.info/default.html
    NZ Mustangs 247... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcf6UYVKbGo
    125 mph 84 5.0 at Lakeside, 155 at Bathurst https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUyM-xqG8M8

  11. #11

    Default

    First off cool ass t-bird, and it sounds tough in your dyno video, I see your down in temperance I live in trenton and go to Milan quite a bit I'm sure I'll see u out there this summer. I was fighting similar issues u are with my s-trim setup, with an 8 rib 3.33 upper and 6.87 lower I was seeing peak boost at 9lbs but was constantly fighting belt slip and only able to get anywhere from 5-8lbs out of it no matter how tight I had the beltSo i upgraded to an 8" crank pulley and a 3.15 upper,still being 8 rib i have zero belt slip so far, way more surface area for the belt to wrap and seeing peak boost of 13-13.5lbs

    As far as doing the intercooler setup I ended up doing the vortech maxflow power cooler and it works great. Only thing is they are very $$$$$
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  12. #12

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    Put my Carbinite coated 10lb pulley on and installed the UPR Boostmaster pipe on yesterday. Wow. HUGE difference seat of the pants! Seeing 10psi now pretty solid so these mods should have at or above 400 to the wheels now. Loading up to head to Milan today to see what the blower setup is worth over last years 13.33 n/a pass
    Brian R. of Michigan
    83 TBird 5.0
    88 Ranger 2.3t
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...83-Tbird-build

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by deathbypsi View Post
    Put my Carbinite coated 10lb pulley on and installed the UPR Boostmaster pipe on yesterday. Wow. HUGE difference seat of the pants! Seeing 10psi now pretty solid so these mods should have at or above 400 to the wheels now. Loading up to head to Milan today to see what the blower setup is worth over last years 13.33 n/a pass
    Awesome, glad everything worked out for you. Did u end up making it to test n tune?

  14. #14

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    ..... didnt have a very good day. Had to abort 6 out of 7 passes due to it going dead lean when I shifted to second gear. Only pass I got down the track under any kind of power I left real soft with a 2.14 60ft then shifted slow and easy. Once I was in 3rd I went WOT to 5500 then easy shift to 4th and WOT again. Ran a 13.20 but timing system didnt show my MPH. Found I have a bad connection in the harness plug going to the injectors { salt n pepper shakers}. If I wiggled the plug the car would shut off or stumble just idling. Looks like the G-forces on 1-2 shift was enough to break the connection and the injectors would shut off. Every log I took showed 8-9 psi in 1st gear and 11.5 afr....shift to 2nd and it would go 18.0-1 faster than I could get out of it. Got lucky I didnt melt the motor down!

    Never got to bolt the slicks on so all runs were on my daily 17" wheels. All 7 passes were between 2.00 and 2.14 60ft which is better than I thought Id get with this much power.
    Brian R. of Michigan
    83 TBird 5.0
    88 Ranger 2.3t
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...83-Tbird-build

  15. #15

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    Always sucks to have a crappy outing like that, at least you found your lean issue with the connections and ur motor is ok and no major repairs are needed lol. Your bird should move pretty dam good once u get all the small things sorted out.

    I had a ****ty outing last year ran 11.80's @125mph with a 2.15 60' and blew a headgasket at the 1,000'. Slapped a new pair of headgaskets on it a few days later and the next few hard street pulls the stock 302 block split on mains 2,3,4 and the cam bearings started walking forward lol but hey that's part of the fun.
    Last edited by 86coupe421; Yesterday at 11:56 AM.

  16. #16

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    How much boost was that?
    Brian R. of Michigan
    83 TBird 5.0
    88 Ranger 2.3t
    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...83-Tbird-build

  17. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by deathbypsi View Post
    How much boost was that?
    That was with the 3.33 and 6.87 combo where peak boost was 9psi but fighting belt slip I was only seeing 6-7lbs on that run.

  18. #18

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