Explorer V8 swap

[EmmyJ]

TLR version--swapping 1998 Explorer V8 into an 81 Capri roller. Car was originally a 4cyl, automatic; swapping to V8, manual. I think I have the basic shopping list: the Explorer engine needs the accessories, distributor, motor mounts, exhaust, wiring harness, computer and exhaust springs from a Mustang 5.0 to work. Performance isn't a huge concern at the moment because the car's a post-apocalyptic pursuit vehicle sitting on a 1" suspension lift--it's almost certainly going to handle like a pig so I don't want 400hp at the wheels until I've had a chance to drive it and sort out the braking and steering first. (It may sound silly, but it's frickin' cool. Trust me.)

Questions: Unfortunately I don't have access to a single donor vehicle and there are very few Fox-bodies in the junkyards near me. If I have to collect ECM and harness components from multiple vehicles, is there a range of compatible cars I can look for? Trying to figure out which years are basically the same. Should I be looking at 89-93 cars, or will 94-97 work for engine electronics? The goal is to build this car just like a properly scavenged Mad Max ride, so I'd rather seek out used parts than just going to Painless Wiring. And I prefer fuel injection to swapping out for a carb.

I place myself at the mercy of People Who Know Way More Than I Do, which is probably pretty much all of you. Thanks for any advice!

[jgloyer]

You'll need a Mustang oil pan as well.

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[ZephyrEFI]

I'm in favor of your keeping the EFI. Let's get that out of the way. The range you want is '86-93. '94-95 will also work, but in some cases, you can't mix them with Fox components. For example, '94 accessory drive with Fox under hood harness. You can still make it work, but it's more work. Also, if you get an '86 (1 year only) dash harness it will make your life much easier if you like the original dash.

[gmatt]

'98 Explorer 5.0 has GT40P heads, so you'll need to find headers to fit. I think there's a thread addressing this on this forum. Transmission cross member needs to be changed for dual exhaust(the mounting brackets on the frame might need to be moved). I'm fairly certain the explorer timing cover is the same as the '94-'95 Mustang 5.0, so those accessory brackets should work. You'll need a fuel system too(elec. fuel pump, supply & return lines). Maybe swap in an efi fuel tank. The TFI on '94-'95 distributors is remote mounted. On earlier cars it's mounted on the distributor. There's also modification necessary to use the explorer intake on a fox Mustang. i'm sure there's more you need to be aware of.

[ZephyrEFI]

Right, i forgot about the transmission crossmember and fuel system things. I started thinking about all the complications that come with doing EFI swap in a non-Mustang/Capri fuel system, but you don't have to worry about that. Everything you need is readily available and easy to find. You Mustang/Capri guys have it so easy! You probably need a different driveshaft too, but again, readily available and easy to find.

As for the crossmember, i'm guessing you're going T-5? I have mine sitting on a Ford Racing double hump crossmember with the mounting tubes shortened for the earlier mounting brackets, then i have a '96 Mustang manual offset transmission mount. Fits perfect. No need to move the brackets.

[jgloyer]

' There's also modification necessary to use the explorer intake on a fox Mustang

There is?

[gmatt]

There is?

I could be wrong. I thought there was some issue with the throttle cable or throttle body? And it needs to be drilled and tapped for the ACT sensor? There's also a difference in the EGR setup.

[gmatt]

Nothing that would prevent installation. You just need to be aware.

[EmmyJ]

This is all very encouraging. Mustang oil pan, manual pedal box and EFI fuel tank have already been acquired, I forgot to mention 'em. I am hoping to find a T5, though thus far I haven't found any that cost less than I have into the entire car (including the engine) so far, so...fingers crossed something will turn up.

I didn't know about the trans crossmember, so I'll keep an eye out for one, thanks!

From what I'm hearing so far, I am looking for '94-95 accessory brackets, and 86-93 ECU and wiring, correct?

[ZephyrEFI]

I could be wrong. I thought there was some issue with the throttle cable or throttle body? And it needs to be drilled and tapped for the ACT sensor? There's also a difference in the EGR setup.

The way to do it if you are doing a straight swap onto a SEFI HO engine is drill for ACT sensor, and rear EGR spacer coolant fitting. Both are a 3/8" NPT tap, 37/64" hole. But if your intake doesn't have the EGR passage, like a '98 model shouldn't, there's no point in doing anything with that style EGR. Your engine will run without EGR, but it might not be happy about it. The right way to eliminate it is to program it out with a chip/programmer. As for the ACT sensor, you might have the boss for it, or you might not. You can still drill/tap the hole in the same spot though. Some people put the ACT sensor somewhere else, but it's really best to put it where the computer expects it to be.

Then there's the throttle body. The Mustang setup works backwards from the Explorer, so you have to remove the original lever and replace it with one from a Mustang throttle body. Considering you don't already have a Mustang throttle body, your best bet will probably be to just buy a new 65MM throttle body. Anyone will have them. LMR, BBK, etc. You'll need some sort of EGR spacer to sandwich behind the throttle body for the cable bracket. You'll probably want one of the thinner EGR eliminating ones.

Sounds like your list is pretty complete. I've found plenty of used parts on ebay, here or The Corral (when it decides to work). Mustang guys are always upgrading, so there's always stuff for sale.

[erratic50]

Unless you go to an actual 86 HO cam or something very similar an 86-88 speed density ECU is going to throw fits and have driveability challenges. This is because the required fuel map is very different Explorer vs Mustang due to the revisions to the heads and intake plus cam duration and lift.

You should be able to run a VM1 or VR1 or DS1 speed density computer it you upgrade the valve springs and swap in an HO cam.

I would likely track down an MAF computer. 70 MM MAF, 65MM throttle body. Normal MAF calibration. The 1993 Cobra ECU is available as new or reman and will allow you to run 24 lb/hr injectors. Suggested because of the improved breathing of GT40P plus intake is known to make more power. but it's manual transmission only.

If if you want to run 19's get an A9P (auto or manual) or an A9L.

[Squarelite]

I would go mass air for sure, no sense goin this far without it.

[EmmyJ]

Unless you go to an actual 86 HO cam or something very similar an 86-88 speed density ECU is going to throw fits and have driveability challenges. This is because the required fuel map is very different Explorer vs Mustang due to the revisions to the heads and intake plus cam duration and lift.

You should be able to run a VM1 or VR1 or DS1 speed density computer it you upgrade the valve springs and swap in an HO cam.

I would likely track down an MAF computer. 70 MM MAF, 65MM throttle body. Normal MAF calibration. The 1993 Cobra ECU is available as new or reman and will allow you to run 24 lb/hr injectors. Suggested because of the improved breathing of GT40P plus intake is known to make more power. but it's manual transmission only.

If if you want to run 19's get an A9P (auto or manual) or an A9L.

*taking copious notes * Not planning to change the cam, so it sounds like I'm looking for a MAF computer from an 89-up Mustang, then? Most things I've read about this swap say that replacing the exhaust springs is a requirement, however.

[EmmyJ]

Considering you don't already have a Mustang throttle body, your best bet will probably be to just buy a new 65MM throttle body. Anyone will have them. LMR, BBK, etc. You'll need some sort of EGR spacer to sandwich behind the throttle body for the cable bracket. You'll probably want one of the thinner EGR eliminating ones. .

Past Self may have helped me out here; I stripped an assortment of engine parts off of a Mark VII LSC at my local pick-n-pull's "$49 all you can carry" sale last summer, and I think I may have grabbed the MAF and throttle body just because they were there. Gonna go check the spare-bits shelf in the garage and see if my memory is correct.

[ZephyrEFI]

Sweet!

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[Haystack]

You can use 91- 93 tbird/cougar 5.0 engine accessories as well.

The accessories issue is due to the crank pulley offset. Can't remember if it's the crank or just the ballencer, but the explorer and 94- 95 mustangs (which use the 91- 93 cougar bird junk for the engine) are 3/4" shorter so the belt won't line up right.

If you want to go budget t- 5, get a 3.8 t- 5. It will bolt right up, just need a 11" clutch and 164t flywheel. I used f- 150 stuff since I was way cheaper. The 98.5- 04 t5's also line up with a regular old aod trans mount.

[erratic50]

A speed density ECU will make it run, a MAF ECU is much preferred.

Be sure to pay attention to the map sensor vacuum speed density vs mass air. You remove the line and plug it when you run MAF.

My car is an early 86 and absolutely every wire they talk about moving around, etc, in the speed density to MAF conversion documentation is wrong. I helped convert one other and everything was accurate in the docs. What I learned is go off of pin position and/or position in the connectors more-so than wire color.

[xctasy]

On Ford pinouts and EFI cars from 86 to 93, they all were designed for production, and best way to go made, is follow a Haynes or Ford wiring diagram. Each 86-88 car was very different, and like E50 says, its pinout to pinout that counts. Most of it is worn and old, and its best to just raid an existing SD system, and rewire it .



There are other things to match, your engine, your car, your choice.

but prinipally Two things need to be considered right off .


Thing 1. Every 1982 on wards Mustang GT cam, either roller rocker, or hydraulic non roller, had the better, more aggressive cam profiles than your door stopper 5.0L Truck, Explorer F4TE-6250-BA Hydraulic Roller cam. Its an SUV or lumbering full size 351/400 cam designed for a 4000 pound car, and even a 205 hp 4.0 Explorer or later Ranger V6 will knock off a GT40P engine. So conservatively timed, its just not a cam for a Fox Hunt. Even a 1980 5.8 HO LTD has one of the most aggressive and well matched non roller cams. On lo po smog engines, it was always a sure fire 20 hp plus gain.

Since a roller cam swap needs no break in, the stock Explorer cam use is the single worst thing you can do to the GT40P engine. Its just in no way, shape or form, a performance cam.

Thing 2. The 86-88 computers are much more aggressive than later EEC IV, SD just does not like aftermarket cams. Factory Ford cams and CompCams XE-264 HR12, or XE 264 14 cam with 24 pound injectors, yes. I'm not saying they are better, but they do a sensational job of avoiding the softened mid range and power train protecting alogorthim used in every Ford MAF EECIV/EECV computer. On the street, it really works, and lots of people don't want Speed Density, so its the ul;timate economy pickup.

Something like the EECIV 1988 DA1 Speed Density ecu can take GT40P's and a much bigger than stock Explorer cam, and all the factory the GT spec cams (non roller, roller) don't set off any problems if done right.

Now, more on "That" Explorer XLT/Mercury Mountanieer cam....
Cam OE Number Type Int Lift Exh Lift Int Dur Exh Dur Int Dur@.050 Exh Dur@.050 Lobe Centerline
5.0L Truck, Explorer F4TE-6250-BA Hydraulic Roller .422 .448 256 266 116

The Explorer cam holds the engine back so much. Its essentially a rollerised 1972 400 Ford 2-bbl (later 351M) cam profile. Basically, your limited to 215 to 248 hp net.

To get 268 hp net, you just need a half a day cam swap, go to a 270 degree net duration on both inlet and exhaust cam, some other mods, and your car will stand up and beg to eat Genetically Modified, Mopar or AMC.


My suggested factory Cam choice is

Cam OE Number Type Int Lift Exh Lift Int Dur Exh Dur Int Dur@.050 Exh Dur@.050 Lobe Centerline
1. 5.0L Cobra F3ZE-6250-CA Hydraulic Roller .479 .479 270 270 209 209 118
2. 5.0L HO 85-88 E5ZE-6250-AA Hydraulic Roller .444 .444 266 266 115
3. 5.0L HO 89-95 E8ZE-6250-CA,F1ZE-6250-AA, or F4ZE-6250-DA Hydraulic Roller .444 .444 266 276 115.5

Aftermarket cams have to go with other parts, but the

4. CompCams XE-264 HR12, or

5. CompCams XE 264 14 cam are okay with the right Throttle body, 24 lb/hr injectors, headers and upper EFI units.


There is a reason why about 60,000 1992-1995 US 5.0 GT Mustang and then another 60,000 1996 to 2002 GT40/40P engines got lifted right from the Clelveland engine factory for Aussie consumption. They were exceptionally good engines, built right down to a price.


The roller cam EFI GT engines have the cam and simple EECIV parts, but the Explorer, the best non forged piston and production heads and intakes, yielded 225 to 268 hp in Aussie Falcons with the really good E8ZE-6250-CA,F1ZE-6250-AA, or F4ZE-6250-DA Hydraulic Roller. Absolutely wonderfull engines which would rev to 6250 rpm fuel cut out, and drop high 15's in 3800 pound automatic cars two up with gas. Or break into the 13's in a 3000 pound Fox Mustang 5 speed

Then, the Stock, the Explorer engines (which were the lowest ebb of production engineering, badly cast alloy intakes and low rent cast iron blocks) , but for all that, all the clearances and internal port profiles, head casting thicknesses, spark plug positions and the extra effort Ford put into them make them the ultimate engine base. Down here, every one yielded 248, 268, 295, and, at the very end, stroked 347 engines gave 335 hp. You just got the 215 hp variant. As an engine base, its able to do a lot more with the earlier roller cam and Speed Density tables.


Ford left 80 to 95 hp off the US 5.0 Explorer/Mountaineer engine potential with the cam, EECV mapping, and the valve springs, intaske maniofld casting slag and lack of casting foundary de-dagging, the 215 hp can instanly leap to 325 hp with just a few basic mix and match modifications.


Don't treat any Explorer/Mountainner 5.0 like a Clydesdale, the engine is an Arabian Mare, just needs a little whippin into shape, none of that stock cam crap.

[erratic50]

Throw on 1.7:1 rockers too if you go with a stock HO or Cobra cam.

The explorer intake could stand some porting on the lower. Tom Moss documented the procedure. The Explorer upper has a longer runner design than the GT40 or Cobra upper. Tends to stop encouraging more revs at 5800. Tom built an upper 2" shorter that matched the Cobra's performance on the drag strip.

[deathbypsi]

I put same motor in my 83 Tbird. I rebuilt the longblock but used a TFS cam and valve spring upgrade from Alex Parts. The rest of the parts bolted to motor I scored off ebay a part at a time for 87-93 Mustangs. I used the Explorer intake with mustang fuel rails,drilled,tapped lower for ATC and used a EGR delete plate for throttle bracket. I also did the foxbody conversion on the 65mm throttlebody.
For the exhaust I bought a used set of BBK 1-3/4 long tube headers off a buddy that work with the GT40P heads perfect. I built the car with a 90 Mustang harness ,a9l ecm,Pro-M 75mm MAF and the Explorer 24lb injectors. I found that the ecm was smoked so I converted to Microsquirt and the car has been a blast! I would guess it made 280-290hp to the wheels and ran 13.30s. I just put a Vortech S-trim on it this year.

I have a pretty detailed build thread on the whole conversion here.
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...83-Tbird-build

[EmmyJ]

Good advice all around, and I'll incorporate as much of it as I can. This is an unusual build, since at the outset I'm just wanting it to run and NOT trying to make power as I have no idea how it's going to handle, other than "probably like sh*t." So I'm not looking for high-powered cams to start off, more a running (cobbled-together) engine that I can *later* upgrade, when the suspension is sorted. I suspect this car is going to be enough of a handful as it is. Too much HP and it's just going to be actively trying to murder me while I'm trying to dial it in!

[brianj]

Not to throw a wrench in the EFI plans, but with a pre '86 front timing cover, and fuel pump eccentric, and a distributor from an '85 5.0 5 speed (all parts readily available new) you can just run a mechanical fuel pump off the existing '81 tank, use most of the existing harness, use simple low pressure fuel lines, and a two or four barrel carb. I like EFI, but a carb sure would be simpler --- You could, and i think should, leave the Explorer cam in there, as well as the explorer valve springs. Your motor would be all done power wise at around 4 to 4500 rpm, but face it- you are on around 31' mud tires. Torque down low will do you better than high rpm power. You can always upgrade later, but save the coin right now for the 5 speed parts and exhaust bits.

[EmmyJ]

You can use 91- 93 tbird/cougar 5.0 engine accessories as well.

The accessories issue is due to the crank pulley offset. Can't remember if it's the crank or just the ballencer, but the explorer and 94- 95 mustangs (which use the 91- 93 cougar bird junk for the engine) are 3/4" shorter so the belt won't line up right.

If you want to go budget t- 5, get a 3.8 t- 5. It will bolt right up, just need a 11" clutch and 164t flywheel. I used f- 150 stuff since I was way cheaper. The 98.5- 04 t5's also line up with a regular old aod trans mount.

Thanks! 5.0 T5's don't seem to go for less than $1200 around here, even at the junkyards. (Also known as "3x what I paid for the whole car.") The price goes way down if it's a 3.8...

[EmmyJ]

Not to throw a wrench in the EFI plans, but with a pre '86 front timing cover, and fuel pump eccentric, and a distributor from an '85 5.0 5 speed (all parts readily available new) you can just run a mechanical fuel pump off the existing '81 tank, use most of the existing harness, use simple low pressure fuel lines, and a two or four barrel carb. I like EFI, but a carb sure would be simpler --- You could, and i think should, leave the Explorer cam in there, as well as the explorer valve springs. Your motor would be all done power wise at around 4 to 4500 rpm, but face it- you are on around 31' mud tires. Torque down low will do you better than high rpm power. You can always upgrade later, but save the coin right now for the 5 speed parts and exhaust bits.

I like this as an alternate plan. I was planning to stick with EFI mainly due to greater familiarity with fuel injection and less new parts to buy. At this point the task is complicated by the original harness' being junk, though (eaten by critters mainly) so I've got to get wiring regardless.

[Haystack]

Buy a 86- 88 s.o. 5.0 cougar or tbird and use it as a parts car. I've bought 3 in the last 5 years for $500. Heck I am parting out one with 350k miles on it in the next few weeks.