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  1. #1
    New User MRausch82's Avatar
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    Default For reference: 79 and 80 Turbo Carburetor Jet Sizes, ID numbers, etc.

    Ok, so my long search for an '80 specific carb seems to have finally come to an end. I have a few '79 carbs, and I have a few n/a carbs. As per gr79's notes and observations, I have found the '79 2.3T carburetors to have the same numbers as his findings:

    '79 carb
    D9ZE-ND tag.. 259 primary/283 secondary, main jets (a/c car)
    D9ZE-MD tag.. 263/275 (non-a/c).
    HS bleeds 185/195 prime/sec
    R8943-2 body number, at least on one
    Accel pump lever location on #3 bottom

    '80 "factory replacement" new carburetor
    BXE1ZE-ADA
    Body number at base R9581
    Main Jets: 259 primary/263 secondary (as installed in carburetor currently)
    HS bleeds 1.95 primary/1.80 secondary
    Accel pump lever location #3 bottom

    1980 NA 2.3 (NON-turbo) carb
    E0EE-GA
    Main Jets: 179 primary/211 secondary (as installed in carburetor currently)
    HS bleeds 1.85 primary/1.50 secondary

    All other specs appear same on turbo and non turbo, both '79 and the '80 carburetors. I will try to update this thread as I come across more information. I'd still like to find an original '80 carburetor, tag E0ZE-AAA with a body number of R8957 and/or R8956, if for nothing else, reference purposes. I'll gladly buy one from anyone that has one they would like to sell. As for the factory replacement unit- it will be going on my fresh engine build in the next few months. I had to sacrifice a gasket when I opened it up, so I will need to order a kit for it.
    Mike Rausch

    1980 Capri Turbo RS

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...944#post855944

    Quote Originally Posted by gr79 View Post
    ......
    Open it up. In 79 carb id were
    D9ZE-ND tag.. 259 primary/283 secondary, main jets (a/c car)
    D9ZE-MD tag.. 263/275 (non-a/c).
    both have 14R974 main well tubes, HS bleeds 185/195 prime/sec
    Accel pump lever location on #3 bottom
    All other specs same as non turbo.

    14R974 are the only right ones for 79 and 80 Turbo. Since the Canadian cars had them, there are service replacements for 1981 and 1982, before the 1983 EECIV EFI Turbo.

    I doubt there should be any other type in a turbo except those.

    1981 Non Turbo E1 ZE - RA and earlier 1973 D3's have very different well tubes with 94/93 or 15/14 numbers.

    example from a very good source, Tony Salazar, retired teacher and Ford Six Forum guru



    1979 2.0 liter AMC's had 75 Primary Well Tube, 74 Secondary well Tube: 74


    All US Holley Well Tubes are re-profiled Weber emulsion tubes, and there is no interchange. Numbers go up from 14Rxxx, starting 014, 015, 074, 075, 974, 975 etc.

    I've got a full list of all Weber emulsions, nothing for Holley Webers except a range of pictures from the 'net.

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post

    Well tubes/Emulsion tubes...
    The 1973 carb ran 15/16.
    1978 F5/F4
    E0ZE-AAA 14R974 main well tubes
    The 1981 non turbo carb ran 14R994, 993.
    AMC's with the Audi 2 liter ran 14R974's


    Turbo 2.3's and other non turbos ran other kinds.

  3. #3
    New User MRausch82's Avatar
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    Default

    I checked and indeed it did have 93 well tubes. I swapped in a pair of 74's from a 79 turbo parts carb that I have. I also swapped the main jets to 263 primary and 283 secondary, and the main bleeds to 1.85 primary and 1.95 secondary. Thinking this will work well.
    Mike Rausch

    1980 Capri Turbo RS

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRausch82 View Post
    I checked and indeed it did have 93 well tubes. I swapped in a pair of 74's from a 79 turbo parts carb that I have. I also swapped the main jets to 263 primary and 283 secondary, and the main bleeds to 1.85 primary and 1.95 secondary. Thinking this will work well.

    Its great having someone as dedicated to following thru' as gr79 does. You are thant kind of guy too, Mike R!

    The emulsions/well tubes have less holes with lower numbers as far as I can tell. Numbers went up in the early days, and then back from 999 later on, so getting a handle on the variants is al little bit cryptic. Without the right well tubes, a turbo will certainly run piston damaging, spark plug burning lean.

    I can't find it right now, but I have taken the time out to catalogue all the US Holley Weber 52xxX and 65xxX variants. Your info is all over the net, just not consolidated yet. I applaud your efforts on getting to the bottom of the whole tuning variations.

  5. #5
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRausch82 View Post
    .....
    All other specs appear same on turbo and non turbo, both '79 and the '80 carburetors......
    The NA 5200c/6500c and Turbo 5200c/6500c carbs may appear same, but they are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by gr79 View Post
    OEM tagged D9ZE-ND is a
    1979 2.3 turbo with a/c 5200 carb.

    D9ZE-MD tag=1979 2.3 turbo non a/c oem 5200 carb
    Same specs except for main jet sizes.


    Non-turbo 5200 carbs are NOT the same.
    Certain non-turbo 5200 versions can be recalibrated to work ok with stock turbo engine.
    Non-turbo 5200 carbs run too lean for a turbo engine. Engine will run flat if at all.

    In 2000 I special ordered a reman carb, from parts store, shipped direct from Holley.
    Looked 'like new' pretty. The carb was WAY off, making the car a dog too.
    Still had the old one. Swapped out some internal parts. Problem solved.




    Aside from the fact that , there are 7 items to check, first five are easy, 6 and 7 need a little more work...


    1. Turbo carbs always have Bowel vents, which have to be on the OHC cam cover side. So do 79-82 non turbo's


    you can get horribly mixed up. These three carbs below look the same as a turbo carb, but aren't.



    webestang's 81 NA carb




    TTAC 82 NC Fairmont Futura non turbo two door carb







    Chevettes, AMC's, Chrysler K cars and Omnis have the bowl vent on the wrong side, and a 5210c or 65xx part numbers. Some are vac secondary carbs. Some have bowl vents just like 79-82 Ford Holley 2.3 2V's...it depends on application. 1.7 Liter VW Mopars look to be the same as the CA 6500c carb, but are 6520c carbs differ in many other ways.



    ^ This is not the right kind

    The identifier for a Turbo carb is the following 2 to 5.

    2. 26 mm primary venturi, not 23 mm like all NA 2.3's from 1980 on wards.
    3. Emulsion/well tubes differ to E0ZE-AAA 14R974 main well tubes
    4. There were 5200c and 6500c versions. CA emissions were 6500c for 1979, then feedback everywhere else from 1980 on.
    5. The 79 and 80 turbo carbs seem to have 2 extra vac connections on the air horn.
    Curved metal 'Pipe', small diameter one on rocker cover side and curved metal one up front.

    If its not got those last things 2 to 5, its not a turbo carb.


    This is a turbo carb. gr79 was at pains to define that it has to have 26 mm primaries, the right well tubes, the right feedback systems if its CA, and the two extra metal pipes. The ones above are not turbo carbs.



    NA and turbo carbs are very different in that after 1979, the castings weren't the same. The venturi size varies.

    Even the internet gets it wrong.

    This is a turbo carb picture,




    The Ranger Station carb is also turbo.



    1979 Turbo and non turbos had the same kit.


    A 6th check is the partial grocery list from info gr79 gave:-

    I checked gr79's OEM tagged D9ZE-ND is a
    1979 2.3 turbo with a/c 5200 carb.

    D9ZE-MD tag=1979 2.3 turbo non a/c oem 5200 carb
    Same specs except for main jet sizes.


    They are on this list, but so are the pre 1978 carbs when the turbo wasn't yet around.

    http://www.carbkitsource.com/carbs/kits/CK181.htm


    but for a non turbo 2.3 liter carb order.

    1980/1981/1982 Non turbo tags are:- Tomco #2-1209, Motorcraft #CA2686, Hite #PH2BS
    E1ZZ-9510-R, Tag #E1ZE-RA, Holley #R9351
    E0AE-AFA
    E0PE-ANA, APA, ATA,
    E0ZE-AFB,AFC,BCA, JB, JC, SA, SB, SC
    E0EE-NA, NC, ND, TB, TC, VA, VC, VD,
    E1DE-DA,EA
    E1ZE-RA,SA,
    E2ZE-ACA,ADA, APA, ARA, UA, YA,

    and some relisted http://www.carbkitsource.com/carbs/kits/CK216.htm

    E0EE-AEA
    E0EE-AEB
    E0EE-AFA
    E0EE-AFB
    E0EE-GA
    E0EE-JA
    E0EE-JB
    E0EE-JC
    E0EE-RA
    E0EE-RB
    E0EE-TA
    E0EE-TB
    E0EE-TC
    E0PE-BBA
    E0PE-BCA
    E0PE-BDA
    E1BE-MA
    E1BE-NA
    E1BE-RA
    E1ZE-ACA
    E1ZE-VA
    E1ZE-YA
    E2ZE-AAA
    E2ZE-ABA
    E2ZE-AFA
    E2ZE-AGA
    E2ZE-AHA
    R-50051A
    R-50052A
    R-50052AAS
    R-50055AAS
    R-8757-1A
    R-8757A
    R-8941A
    R-8942-1A
    R-8942-2A
    R-8942-2AAS
    R-8942A
    R-8942AAS
    R-8944-1A
    R-8944-2A
    R-8944-2AAS
    R-8944A
    R-8944AAS
    R-9012-1A
    R-9012A
    R-9014-1A
    R-9014A
    R-9335A
    R-9337A
    R-9345A
    R-9350A
    R-9352A
    R-9354A
    R-9356A
    R-9775A
    R-9778A
    R-9779A
    R-9812A
    R-9814A
    R-9999AAA

    1980-1982 Turbo tags are http://www.carbkitsource.com/carbs/kits/CK217.htm


    E0PE-ARA
    E0PE-ASA
    E0PE-AVA
    E0ZE-AAA
    E0ZE-ACA
    E0ZE-ACB
    E0ZE-ACC
    E0ZE-ACD
    E0ZE-ATA
    E0ZE-ATB
    E0ZE-ATC
    E0ZE-AZA
    E1ZE-ADA
    E1ZE-ADB
    R-50054AAS
    R-50056AAS
    R-50058AAS
    R-50194A
    R-50195A
    R-50271A
    R-50324A
    R-50327A
    R-8943A
    R-8945A
    R-8956-1A
    R-8956-2A
    R-8956-2AAS
    R-8956-3A
    R-8956A
    R-8956AAS
    R-8957A
    R-8957AAS
    R-8959A
    R-9180-1A
    R-9180-2A
    R-9180A
    R-9180AAS
    R-9181A
    R-9181AAS
    R-9564A
    R-9581-1A
    R-9581A


    As long as the carb hasn't been swapped out, the 7th cross check for "is it a 5200c or is it a Feeback 6500c?" is additionally based on the presence of the following 2300 Feedback parts:-

    In full size, file 1. has all the MCU 78-82 ingredients visually



    These five files best describe the issues Ford were dealing with from 1978 to 1982...things only got simpler with the EECIV.

    The MCU and all pre EECIV systems were tainted with the same brush of confusion.

    1. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...October_79.jpg
    2. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/...ic_process.jpg
    3. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/..._1982APRIL.jpg
    4. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/..._1982APRIL.jpg
    5. http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/..._1982APRIL.jpg

  6. #6

    Default

    FWIW my carb came as follows (possibly replaced I don't know):
    Holley 5200 Tag# EOZE AAA OF1A
    R8957 stamped on the passenger side base
    Holley Rebuild kit should be 3-1193 per Holly tech line.

    I had mine rebuild at a carb shop (and hope they used matching/correct items). I'm meeting with him tomorrow to help ID some components from pictures I took vs. the VECI to help me continue to wrap my head around how this works with my vacuum spaghetti.

    I don't see the primary size stamp but secondary says 27
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 01-22-2019 at 07:26 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  7. #7
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    The secondary return spring is missing. Secondary is not closing.
    That may be your high idle issue.
    Move the secondary throttle plate see if it closes or has spring tension.
    It has to be closed at idle.
    Attachment 126029

  8. #8

    Default

    Good catch GR my carb guy said the same thing. Thatís an old picture from when I took the carb in to be rebuilt. The spring is there now!


    He was scratching his head on why my carb has no idle adjustment screw. I had over 20 pictures and in the end he thinks the throttle stop solenoid is where there is some adjustment but frankly I could not find any way to do so. He also suggested I leave the secondary vent (curved air vent on the passenger side of carb) capped for now and not to connect it to the distributor or manifold vacuum.
    Last edited by m81mclaren; 01-25-2019 at 04:42 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  9. #9

    Default

    Now that I uploaded the picture above with the return spring, it does appear that the "Throttle Solenoid Positioner" vacuum kicker (not stop solenoid?) has a threaded shaft which I may check and adjust later after addressing the main vacuum lines and other tuning adjustments.

    He gave me this old Mitchell book to take home and study... a couple to start with



    Last edited by m81mclaren; 01-25-2019 at 06:20 PM.
    Current FEP:
    1980 M81 McLaren Carb Turbo 2.3T #003P ... IT'S ALIVE after a 22 year slumber thread!

    Past FEP:
    1986 Capri GS 5.0- very missed but in goods hands
    1985 LTD SSP- quick little fox 5.0

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member gr79's Avatar
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    Engines vary as to what setting works best for it.
    Book tuning specs and engine stickers are a baseline.
    Mine barely ran with timing at 6. Did not run good.
    12 was more like it. Think that is where it is now. Gave it what it wanted.
    I set the max timing during road tests with everything connected.
    No knock, pecking, boost or no, regular fuel.

    Did replace the enrichment rod assy recently. The rubber diaphragm had a tiny hole and tear in it.
    That corrected a fuel mileage drop to 15 mpg.

    A throttle kicker is usually found on a/c carb cars.
    Yours is definitely adjustable via the lock nut and threads on the end going thru the bracket.
    I would not hesitate to adjust the idle there. Can be readjusted later.
    Loosen lock nut, turn the round part CCW to decrease idle speed, retighten lock nut

    The 27(mm) is the carb secondary venturi size. The primary is 26mm. The carb 'throat'.
    Turbo carb's 26mm primary venturi is slightly larger than a n/a version's 22mm and 27mm.
    Besides calibration, is one of the main differences between turbo and n/a 5200 carbs.
    Secondary is same 27mm on all.
    Also, all 5200 carbs have 32mm/36mm throttle plates, according to the 1979 Ford carb spec charts.

    Read the 1980 2.3 turbo automatics had an electric fuel pump and mechanical too. Was news to me.
    Last edited by gr79; 01-25-2019 at 08:15 PM.

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