SN95 spindles on fox... what ball joints?

[cb84capri]

Like the title says... I am all confused about what ball joints to use. Going to put 13" Cobra front brake stuff on my Capri with 94-95 spindles I have drilled for my bump steer tie rods, and for some reason in the past I though it was just a matter of using sn95 x2 ball joints... In searching I'm seeing people say they lower the car this that and the other and if you're not using genuine Ford ball joints they aren't good anyway... People talking about hybrid Steeda x2 ball joints... Low friction sounds like a good idea to me but I can I use any form of x2?

Currently the car has a stock k member and A arms, 87-93 v8 spindles, calipers, 5 lug rotors, Steeda sport springs, Steeda cc plates, Maximum bumpsteer tie rods, and Strange 10 way struts. Is my best option to stay with the factory ball joint and get some spacers? My wheel clearance is tight up there already, and I'm somewhat worries about the tire getting into the fender with the slight track width increase.

The car is already tucking tire:



Thanks,
Cale

[Fastlane]

I have used both the SN95 Ball joints and the earlier Fox Body Ball joints. If the Earlier Fox Body Ball Joints are in good condition, I would use some washers since the ball joints are taller and are required when using SN 95 Spindles. If you are going to replace the ball joints, then I would use the SN95 type. I find the later ones are easier to install, since they are shorter. As for different Brands available, according to MM, the Ford Type seem to work better, but usually cost a lot more. Unless you are going to race, you probably would not notice much difference in say the Moog and the Ford type. I would probably not go with the no brand since they may not hold up very well.

[Supersonic G.T.350]

In our shop I've typically had very good experiences with Moog. Unless I decide to just spring for something outrageous for balljoints I'll just use Moog. I'd use SN95 joints for SN95 spindles.

[erratic50]

I run X2 with SN95 spindles up front on my 86. I use 95 tribar 17x8 rims with 245/45/17 tires. Nothing rubs.

A good old friend runs fox balljoints with washers and 17x9 rims with 255/40/17 tires. His rims rub his A arms when turning sharp before his tires rub. He put in rack limiters to solve it.

We both have fox GT springs and swaybar. We both run caster/camber plates. Our ride heights up front are effectively the same while my tires are over 1/2" taller.

We did some measuring and his rim/tire combo would clear on my car turning much sharper because the taller X2 raises the spindle up in the A arm and makes more a-arm/rim clearance. His tires would drop my car around 1/4" too.

His steering geometry has a bump steer challenges without X2's also.

Another friend has X2's with stock outer tierods and reports good steering feel and bumpsteer behavior.

I run a specialized MM bumpsteer kit designed for SN95 on fox. I need to bumpsteer my car still but the stack isn't terribly off right now.....

The 94+ balljoints including X2's are taller and move a lot more freely under load than fox joints do. This allows the front suspension to work better.

The frontend feel on the two cars that have 94 up style balljoints is night and day better on the street or the track.

This is my experience.

if I had it to do again I would try stock outer tierod ends with X2 or 94+ style balljoints before going to a bumpsteer kit.

And I'd go with the 255/40 tires up front and something same height but even wider out back.

Dont forget to tack in your ballpoints with three quick spot welds in a triangle shape. One lined up with the spindle the other two 120 degrees away. Be sure to use a quality grease in the ballpoints too.

[Jack Hidley]

If you plan on using a stock height ball joint, there is no reason to use anything else other than an OEM Ford SN95 ball joint. These have a metal-Delrin interface which gives them the lowest possible friction of any ball joint that we've ever tested. They are excellent quality and last forever.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Fo...ang-P1465.aspx

Any ball joint which is metal on metal is going to have much more friction. This only exception to this is a circle track ball joint such as a Howe. These have adjustable preload. They are normally setup to have virtually no preload. This gives them fairly low friction, but they wear quickly and the preload needs to be adjusted every race to keep it constant.

The SteedaX2 ball joint is a mixed bag. It uses an extended length stud which is 0.696" longer than a SN95 ball joint. This improves the roll center location on a lowered Mustang. This has several other affects.

It will lower the car 0.696". Steeda supplies a 0.25" spring spacer to raise the car back up 0.5".

The outer tie rod must be lowered by 0.696" to correct the bumpsteer geometry.

The real downside to this ball joint is its friction level. Steeda's website is deceptive about this.

https://www.steeda.com/steeda-x2-mus...-555-8101.html

They describe that the ball joint meets the same specifications for Ford Panther chassis ball joints, which is a heavy duty chassis. This is correct. It is a chassis designed to drive over curbs at 45mph without damage (Police and Taxi use). This is why it is metal on metal construction. It meets the Ford friction specifications for this use, which are three times higher than the SN95 Mustang friction specifications. Why in the world would a Mustang owner who is interested in good ride quality, handling and traction, want to install a ball joint intended for offroad use?

There are pros and cons to each ball joint. If you compete with the car in a class that requires a stock k-member, but allows aftermarket ball joints, then the X2 is a no brainer. If you are allowed to use an aftermarket k-member, then there is no reason to use an X2 ball joint.

There is never any reason to weld in a ball joint. There are multiple reasons to not ever let a welder touch one.

With stock location springs, the FCA is always being forced downwards. This force pushes the ball joint housing into the FCA all the time. With the car cornering hard, the swaybar is going to produce an upward force on the inside FCA. At worst, this force will just about neutralize the downwards force on the FCA from the spring. Virtually any amount of interference fit between the ball joint and FCA is adequate. Enough interference fit is needed to keep braking forces from egging out the FCA hole.

When used with coilovers, there is no downward force on the FCA from the spring. Given this, when cornering hard, the swaybar will create a significant force of the FCA lifting it up. This force is pulling the ball joint out of the FCA.

The solution to this is to install the ball joints with Loctite bearing and sleeve retainer. This is an adhesive available at every autoparts store. It makes changing the ball joints in the future very easy.

Welding the ball joint deforms the cup and the FCA. This changes the preload inside the ball joint. It always deforms the Delrin inside the ball joint. Steel melts around 2,500 degrees. Delrin melts around 350 degrees.

[cb84capri]

Thanks for the info, guys! Jack you really cleared a lot of this up for me, thank you. Somewhere here I have Moog X2 ball joints I bought on Rock Auto wholesaler clearance a few years back, so I'm going to go with those for now if I can find them... Also... Jack who supplies the rod ends for Maximum's bump steer kit, should I need to replace mine?

Cale

[Jack Hidley]

Cale,

I don't understand what you mean by Moog X2 ball joints. X2 ball joints are sold by Steeda. X2 is their part number/product name. Moog can't use it.

We use FK Bearing rod ends. They are a very standard right hand thread 5/8" rod end. Virtually any brand will have the same dimensions. If you need to, you can get them from MM.

[cb84capri]

My bad... I thought X2 was a name used to describe all SN95 ball joints. Thanks.

Cale

[cb84capri]

Has MM considered offering a ball joint like the Steeda X2 dimension-ally, but internally like the low friction SN95 Ford OEM ball joint?

Cale

[erratic50]

Great post Jack.

I tacked mine in because I've seen them come out at SCCA events before. I greased them first to help control the heat. Time will tell if it did its job because it it didn't they will likely fail prematurely.

The X2's feel vastly better in both cars that run them compared to the stock fox joints imo. Unscientific for sure but a confident driver is always faster as long as they don't get overconfident. One car was converted then later pulled down and switched to X2's to address bumpsteer for what it is worth so there was a before/after.

I personally would give the spacers that come with the X2's a throw. To raise the attitude you have to lower the altitude and X2's combined with caster/camber plates are a great start. A slightly shorter tire like a 255/40/17 makes it better yet.

My 86 is not a nice car but I get a ton of complements on its stance. And looks are deceiving as its way more of a drivers car inside than it would ever outwardly appear. I guess rat rat rot meets sleeper- at least for now.

[erratic50]

Cb84capri - I forgot to say...... love your car. A beautiful example of a Capri for sure. Wonder how many people actually know what they got passed by. Cool.

[Jack Hidley]

Cale,

Yes, we have considered doing that. It creates a lot of issues given the fact that we already sell k-members with raised FCA pivot holes in them. We would then have the problem of dealing with customers trying to use both products, which would be a mistake.

We already have this problem with the MM S197 k-member and Ford Racing FCAs with extended length ball joints.

[86FOX4EYE]

Cale,

We would then have the problem of dealing with customers trying to use both products, which would be a mistake.
We already have this problem with the MM S197 k-member and Ford Racing FCAs with extended length ball joints.

I feel your pain.

Matthew

[cb84capri]

Cb84capri - I forgot to say...... love your car. A beautiful example of a Capri for sure. Wonder how many people actually know what they got passed by. Cool.

Thank you! I have been chased down by people numerous times while out cruising so they could ask me what it is. I got pulled over by a cop who circled the car until he saw the Mercury badge in the grille because he didn't know what it was, and the car doesn't have any other markings.

I can't walk into part stores and ask for parts for it. They always want to look up parts for a Chevy Caprice despite me saying Mercury... My sig is kind of a play on that.

Cale,

Yes, we have considered doing that. It creates a lot of issues given the fact that we already sell k-members with raised FCA pivot holes in them. We would then have the problem of dealing with customers trying to use both products, which would be a mistake.

We already have this problem with the MM S197 k-member and Ford Racing FCAs with extended length ball joints.

I was confused in my terminology. I definitely see how that can be a problem. I do think there is a market for an extended length ball joint based on the original Ford sn95 one though. I just bought some Stteda X2 bjs, because nothing else exists. I do have some peace of mind knowing that if I decide to slam into curbs with it the ball joint should be ok, lol!

Cale

[erratic50]

Depends upon what hits the curb! Given the amount of drop you get from parts like X2 and caster/camber plates it might not be the wheels hitting first!

I have to sort-of lol whenever I hear lot of discussion about lowering springs. For practical purposes on a street car, how much lower would anyone want to go?

I have no regrets on my decision to run X2's with caster/camber plates and stock springs. I love the dropped look but I wouldn't want mine any lower than it is.