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  1. #1
    FEP Power Member smitty54's Avatar
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    "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac."
    George Carlin, Rest in peace

    Rick
    84 GT Convertible
    68 Cougar XR7
    13 Lincoln MKX

  2. #2
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    Wow! Incredible pictures to document such a quality restoration. If you are in the market for a show quality '86 Saleen....I don't think you can buy one cheap and fully restore/resto-mod to this level for $21k? Seems like I've seen this one for sale in the past.
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 GT Med. Red - 14k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '85 GT Black - 16k Mile Orig. Survivor (Foxtoberfest 2016 Best Original 79-86)
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
    '92 LX 5.0 Calypso - 10k Mile Orig. Survivor (Sold @ Foxtoberfest...2017 Best Original 87-93)
    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,700 Mile Original Survivor
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey - 16k miles @ counting.

  3. #3

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    It has been for sale for a while on EBAY. the 306 stroker turns me off. I like original( or restored to original) cars. If I am not mistaken, someone on here owned that at one time.

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    Yeah I get that....that's why I didn't use the word "concours" above But if somebody wants a show ready resto-mod for a Saleen then to me this is a deal compared to doing all that work on a salvage car. My buddies '88 Saleen Coupe that I keep here has a DSS 306 stroker motor in it (along with a Vortech) but to the naked eye it still looks like a 302. Now as for the seat of your pants....forget about it!!!
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 GT Med. Red - 14k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '85 GT Black - 16k Mile Orig. Survivor (Foxtoberfest 2016 Best Original 79-86)
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
    '92 LX 5.0 Calypso - 10k Mile Orig. Survivor (Sold @ Foxtoberfest...2017 Best Original 87-93)
    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,700 Mile Original Survivor
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey - 16k miles @ counting.

  5. #5

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    Is a 306 a Stroker motor? Seems like a lot of $$$ for a new crank and labor for 4 cubic inches.

  6. #6

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    Thought the Ford stroker is 331 and 347. 306 is just a 302 bored out?.........I'm prob wrong. ��

  7. #7

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    306 is just a 302 bored out?
    Yes, this is correct.
    83 Mustang GT , A5 5 speed, 31 spline Cobra rear, LMR TRX, 302 being built, currently stock motor
    84 Lx convertible 347, modded aod , and a power mirror with compass and temperature,

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by sowaxeman View Post
    Yeah I get that....that's why I didn't use the word "concours" above But if somebody wants a show ready resto-mod for a Saleen then to me this is a deal compared to doing all that work on a salvage car. My buddies '88 Saleen Coupe that I keep here has a DSS 306 stroker motor in it (along with a Vortech) but to the naked eye it still looks like a 302. Now as for the seat of your pants....forget about it!!!
    Jason I definitely see your point about having a beauty to just get in and drive. I hope that red car I am getting from Texas is nice enough to leave alone. I should have them in a week or so. When I need the "seat of your pants" I have a 2013 GT with a Vortech that made 640 at the rear wheels last year on the dyno. As much as I love the Foxes...nothing compares to the new stuff.

  9. #9

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    I have a 2013 GT with a Vortech that made 640 at the rear wheels last year on the dyno. As much as I love the Foxes...nothing compares to the new stuff.
    ( please realize this is in humor, but don't call out the foxes)

    BS, lol, my Capri eats up " new stuff " all the time. Nothing compares to having to control all that power yourself, and forgetting all those gizmo's that make you act like you can drive. I had a new supercharged z06 with bolt ons come around me, but he was pissed that I put him at my back bumper to have to come around me, and he had to work to come around me and put 1 car on me. His licence plate was VPR SNPR and it runs mid 10's. His response was , let me get you out of the hole and use my traction control to beat you,, yeah nothing compares to the new stuff, if you can't drive... LOL
    83 Mustang GT , A5 5 speed, 31 spline Cobra rear, LMR TRX, 302 being built, currently stock motor
    84 Lx convertible 347, modded aod , and a power mirror with compass and temperature,

  10. #10

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    I love your devotion...I am a fox body guy, There is a reason why I just bought three fox bodies instead of another newer car. What I meant was you can't compare the over all performance. My 13 (trac pac car, with Brembos and Recaro Int) Bone stock suspension, tranny, rear end. street radials and full exhaust runs 10's and I can get in and corner like a GT3 and drive 300 miles in comfort like I am driving a Phantom. And that's a stick car! Whole different ball game. I would never call out the foxes...I love the foxes. The new stuff will never have the character and soul of the old stuff.....but you can not compare over all performance. find me a stock suspension, stock tranny, stock rear end, fox body that will out perform a new coyote motor mustang and I will eat my words! I came inches from buying a new GT 350 and decided to buy a few really nice 4 eyed cars instead. All I am saying is you cant compare the two. And with all the technology in the new stuff you still have to know how to drive! Some day I will take you for a ride! lol
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  11. #11

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    4eyedfoxdriver.......just so we are clear.......If I could only have one toy it would have 4 eyes!

  12. #12

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    It's totally all good, you don't need to defend your coyote love here


    I'm not necessarily a devotionalist, just a realist. I love Mustangs and there are places for all of them. I know what my Capri would do to a stock 13 GT on any track, be it road, auto or 1/4 mile, it would not be pretty for the 13, I guarantee. No mine not's stock, but yours is a long way from being stock, even factory mods aren't stock, and your supercharger cost more then my car, lol. Plus the Capri doesn't drive or ride bad, I drive it all the time, and drove it home 600 miles when I bought it. Of course I'm not a neanderthal I can't DD it because it doesn't have AC, or a cup holder, or a speedometer for that matter, but damn, you don't want to question it's performance , LOL... Power to weight is a bitch, that carries over to all aspects of performance, 2900 #'s is a lot to overcome, 275's and a panhard bar doesn't hurt either.

    Really though, our new Acura sits in the driveway, I drive my foxes everywhere, around 8000miles last year, and drive my truck to work everyday. My 83 is practically stock, though not at all, and you would obviously be shocked just how good of a driver these cars can be. Do a few key mods and they will surprise you.

    BTW I would love to hook up at some time when I'm driving one of mine cross country and I can take you for a ride and show you how good these foxes can be.
    Last edited by 4eyedfoxdriver; 03-20-2017 at 10:59 PM.
    83 Mustang GT , A5 5 speed, 31 spline Cobra rear, LMR TRX, 302 being built, currently stock motor
    84 Lx convertible 347, modded aod , and a power mirror with compass and temperature,

  13. #13

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    If you throw specialty cars with dealer mods at it then all is fair in war.

    Several of the state patrol foxes of the 80's vintage received a 100 shot of NOS before they ever hit the street for a single shift. The supercar killer I believe they were called. An 11 second car when 13's were 'quick' according to Ferrari.

    Then there were the dominators with their solid lifter roller cams..... Bad ass little pushrod motor for sure.

    or the Saleens that came with huge brakes, tuned suspension, and a supercharger. Or the Saleens that were stuffed with the same but a 351W and a supercharger.

    And this was back in the days when a governor was only found at each head of state office.

    A typical factory 5.0HO could have its intake silencer removed and timing advanced in a 5 minute driveway tuneup and pick up more than 25HP and 40+ lbs of torque. You do the math on what this meant in a 3000 lb car vs what needs to be found in a heavier car of today.

    About the time you're rolling 150+ in 4th gear and are still pulling rapidly towards your 160+ mph redline and you have one more gear to go ..... there might be a new appreciation found for a fox and that infamous 5 minute driveway tuneup.

    But too bad none of the foxes were quick or fast compared to today..... right?

  14. #14

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    Name:  mclaren2.jpg
Views: 117
Size:  120.4 KBhahaha I started a war! I love controversy. Fox I would love to go for a ride. If your ever in the Boston area let me know! And Erratic, I know there was some quick cars back in the day. But the fact is they were nowhere near the 11 second cars that you can drive off the showroom floor today. I am the first to admit that back then you had to be a car guy (or gal) to appreciate and even get the performance out of the cars compared to todays computer nerd, or lawyer who writes a check and thinks he has a fast car. But if you combine todays performance with a car guy then you have performance that was not around back in the 80's. 4eye mentioned the traction control and stuff and in a way he is correct. But if you put a real car guy who can drive in one of the new cars you will be very surprised. So when 4 eye comes to town you should come too and I will take you both out to lunch and we can have some fun beating up some new muscle. My son always has something foreign and fast at the house.
    Last edited by HCBERICH; 03-21-2017 at 07:08 AM.

  15. #15
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    Isn't 306 a bored out 302 block, and the "stroker" part is the crank and internals that actually changes the total stroke to a 347 cu"? I could be wrong...just going from what I read on the parts sheet of my buddies car and from what I watch on Engine Power

    Regardless....486 RWHP on a sub 3000lb Fox Coupe is pretty insane. And to the new vs old argument...there is no comparison when it comes to drive-ability and ride quality. With a full Griggs GR-30 suspension system underneath, the '88 Saleen Coupe feels like driving a go-kart...and quite frankly scares the doo-doo out of me everytime I give it hell. My '05 Saleen, while a very easy car to drive...its just not the same as an old fox.

    I love being able to go "through the years" with my cars, because there are distinct differences in power and drive-ability from my 82, to 85, to 93 and 2005. And lets not even get started on rattles and other noises when comparing Foxes to S-197 and S-550.
    Last edited by sowaxeman; 03-21-2017 at 09:59 AM.
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 GT Med. Red - 14k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '85 GT Black - 16k Mile Orig. Survivor (Foxtoberfest 2016 Best Original 79-86)
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
    '92 LX 5.0 Calypso - 10k Mile Orig. Survivor (Sold @ Foxtoberfest...2017 Best Original 87-93)
    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,700 Mile Original Survivor
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey - 16k miles @ counting.

  16. #16

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    Honestly though, which of those really rides down the road better? Though I know that question would be more likely answered in my favor if it was a Ferrari or a Lambo..

    So what happens when the ultimate factor come into play, and they cost the same? The technology we are putting into our old cars has changed, a good HCI will get these into the 11's. Some key MM suspension parts and they will handle and still drive good.

    I wonder have you had a well rounded fully modded fox? I have to admit stock they do leave a little to be desired, especially the 4eyes (sorry) and it sucks that yes my 4 door family car will beat them. I'm not talking all out race modded , just address the key issues. Give them 300hp at the tires, gears, sub frame connectors, lower MM control arms, a set of B springs, good shocks and tires, a little extra stopping power, then you have a good driver foureyed, that will beat most of the new stuff. My last car I built was an 88 SSP , which addresses almost all of those issues. A Trick Flow top end took care of the power, some 3.55 gears and 245 tires all around was all it needed. I drove that car to Tampa Bay and it would run with any of the regular 5.0 new cars. Again though it was under 3000#

    .
    And don't forget the cool factor, which one turns your head every time you see it driving down the road, a 2013 GT or mine?


    My SSP





    the '88 Saleen Coupe feels like driving a go-kart...and quite frankly scares the doo-doo out of me everytime I give it hell
    Thats why my Capri is for sale, it honestly is to much for the street, and stay out of trouble, anyway. It's probably 425-450 and isn't guaranteed traction till 3rd gear, which with 3.08 gears is around 75. The clinch factor rises when the rears start walking out above 60...
    Last edited by 4eyedfoxdriver; 03-21-2017 at 10:35 AM.
    83 Mustang GT , A5 5 speed, 31 spline Cobra rear, LMR TRX, 302 being built, currently stock motor
    84 Lx convertible 347, modded aod , and a power mirror with compass and temperature,

  17. #17

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    When bought it from a friend who owned it for a long time. Its a DSS 306.

    I had another friend paint it and I sold it to another guy who did all the detail work. My pic were my spare wheels and original 16's were on the car when I sold it. Unsure where they are now.

    Another guy I know has a ultra low mile jalapeņo red svo. Next to my Saleen with new paint disappointed me so I sold it. Looks good on ebay though.
    82 ford fairmont futura
    quicktime turbosystems 70mm turbo
    10.67@128.38

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    We aren't really talking apples to apples here...we are talking about generations apart. It's not a fair comparison really. You hit the nail on the head with "cool factor". Thats what these four-eyes and foxes are really about for most of us because that is what we grew up with. Thirty years from now the S-197 cars will be another generations "cool factor" cars.
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 GT Med. Red - 14k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '85 GT Black - 16k Mile Orig. Survivor (Foxtoberfest 2016 Best Original 79-86)
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
    '92 LX 5.0 Calypso - 10k Mile Orig. Survivor (Sold @ Foxtoberfest...2017 Best Original 87-93)
    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,700 Mile Original Survivor
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey - 16k miles @ counting.

  19. #19
    FEP Super Member roush235's Avatar
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    These new vs. old discussions are always interesting. I have found that many Mustang enthusiasts have one of each, me included. And the discussion is even more stark when comparing to first generation cars.

    I often think about Jason's comment. I probably won't be around to experience it, but I agree that in year 2047 the S-197 will be a cool collectible car. And my 1979 will be 68 years old (assuming it lives that long....). Which is the same time increment as today to 1949. And how do you and I view a 1949 Ford?
    Bob in Lebanon, TN
    79 original owner six cylinder coupe
    MCA Gold Card judge for 3rd Generation cars

  20. #20
    FEP Power Member jleews6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    If you throw specialty cars with dealer mods at it then all is fair in war.

    Several of the state patrol foxes of the 80's vintage received a 100 shot of NOS before they ever hit the street for a single shift. The supercar killer I believe they were called. An 11 second car when 13's were 'quick' according to Ferrari.

    Then there were the dominators with their solid lifter roller cams..... Bad ass little pushrod motor for sure.

    or the Saleens that came with huge brakes, tuned suspension, and a supercharger. Or the Saleens that were stuffed with the same but a 351W and a supercharger.

    And this was back in the days when a governor was only found at each head of state office.

    A typical factory 5.0HO could have its intake silencer removed and timing advanced in a 5 minute driveway tuneup and pick up more than 25HP and 40+ lbs of torque. You do the math on what this meant in a 3000 lb car vs what needs to be found in a heavier car of today.

    About the time you're rolling 150+ in 4th gear and are still pulling rapidly towards your 160+ mph redline and you have one more gear to go ..... there might be a new appreciation found for a fox and that infamous 5 minute driveway tuneup.

    But too bad none of the foxes were quick or fast compared to today..... right?
    You cant really compare the new cars today from any of the older cars. I have owned them all and as much as I still love my 85 GT they were slow compared to todays cars. Even most of the new pick ups will out run the Fox Mustangs and my newer Vette would crush them. It runs 11.0s @125 with just a few bolt ons. That being said ,There is just something really cool about a nice original 85 GT.
    A bunch of 85gt's

  21. #21

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    Oh fun times. Need I point out that there a numerous lightly modified foxes that will straight up blow the doors off that Vette. Not sure if you have any lurking in your area but they are out there. Street cars- honest daily driven rocket ships.

    Certain cars do certain things very well. If I weren't married and wanted to get my Harley suckstarted by some skank id own a vette.

    Guys who love pure raw speed and performance don't do traction control or antilock brakes. Those take all of the talent out of the equation.

    As for quarter mile times and numbers - there is a reason the foxbody mustangs hold more drag racing records and titles than any other car in history. And it's not because the other cars are slow.... Its because it's exceptionally easy to build a combo in your garage that will put down insane numbers and do so on a very tight budget.

  22. #22
    FEP Super Member sowaxeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    If I weren't married and wanted to get my Harley suckstarted by some skank id own a vette.
    HAH!! JUST about spewed my coffee onto my keyboard
    Jason Smith
    MCA #65481

    '82 GT Med. Red - 14k Mile Orig. Survivor
    '85 GT Black - 16k Mile Orig. Survivor (Foxtoberfest 2016 Best Original 79-86)
    '88 #400 Saleen Coupe "Mean Machine" Legal Guardian
    '92 LX 5.0 Calypso - 10k Mile Orig. Survivor (Sold @ Foxtoberfest...2017 Best Original 87-93)
    '93 LX Yellow/Black Summer Feature - 2,700 Mile Original Survivor
    '05 S-281 Mineral Grey - 16k miles @ counting.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by sowaxeman View Post
    HAH!! JUST about spewed my coffee onto my keyboard
    Bwahahahahahahaha!!!!!! I'm dying over here.

    Love all the banter. I agree with Jason's point on valuation. Having nearly completing my '86 resto I can tell you how quickly the $$$ add up.

    I'm familiar with the 3 cars you bought. Nice collection. Enjoy! I look forward to hearing more about them in new hands.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  24. #24

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    I guess I never got back to commenting on the engine discussion. Too busy hijacking a thread with fast cars and Harley commentary I guess. Lol!

    There are a lot of ways to end up at 306 CID. The most common and nearest stock way is to bore the 302 and hang the new 0.030 slugs off the stock rods and crank.

    I guess you could go to a very slightly shorter rod and marginally longer stroke to get there too. That's not how it's usually done.

    Some builders install slightly shorter pistons with a longer rods to create a "max quench" setup. The slug spends more time near TDC with fire on it and this allow better combustion attribute at high compression or under boost. the don't stroke it to increase displacement because they want the better rod ratio and the want the shorter stroke because it allows for more RPM without exotic parts.

    Some guys play the CID game to get more torque along with some horsepower and play with less desirable rod ratios and and higher feet per minute speeds on pistons than recommended.

    Others play the RPM game with the intention to get horsepower..

    The winning formulas are most that maximize air and fuel through the motor per minute at max throttle while staying efficient on fraction and heat, etc. Go too far on RPM with stock or nearly stock parts and less than favorable rod ratios, etc, the combo could very well go boom.

    Hard to say how this 306 was built but many log rod setups are great on the street and a 0.030 over based setup is just fine too.
    Last edited by erratic50; 03-22-2017 at 10:41 PM.

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