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  1. #26
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woody
    Make sure you get your information from the internet gurus that haven't built SH1+, they did sleep at Holiday Inn last night, and we have a few of those gurus right here on this forum.

    Zap, let me remind you....




    Tri Y's for me, even worse.... Your always going to get some thing stuck. So I just use a railway sleeeper, a set of trampoline crash pads, and and drop the K memeber if its a Fox.


    but our 72 Falcon RPO083 GT's came with Tri Y's , and You know....theres no K member to drop when you slide them into an 78.5 inches between the struts 1971 XY Falcon X shell. My first engine full swap.


    And those are words, they are of Your experience...it counts. Becasue there aint no way I'd have survived a 351C with long tubes, even if they gave another 40 hp.....





    Long headers, well, If your trying to put together one of woody's FordStrokers AFR205 headed, Edelbrock inducted, 42 pound injected 442.8 rwhp at just 4800 rpm, and 525 lb-ft at 3600 rpm 418 F4 blocked stroker with no cracks in the cam tunnel, then you might just get away with them.




    And the EBGT Falcon the 418 went into is an MN12 in chassis arrangement, only wrapped tighter than a dead mans grave cloths.... like to see how you do a starter removal , pan drop and rack replacement with long headers.





    Woody exports. Sometimes in units of 554 flywheel net hp. Its about Experience. Your Results May Vary.

  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zap's 85 GT View Post
    Where did I say they work harder? You'll just notice a bigger difference because the exhaust ports on a stock head are more restrictive. Pretty easy to figure out if you ask me. Yes long tubes are better, but at what cost compared to decent shorties? He already has shorties, the switch to long tubes will not net him very much compared to what he already has. $ per horsepower at this point will not net much gains. I've seen it over and over. Don't just discount other peoples experience. You sound like someone who killed off SBFTECH.com.
    You made it sound like the long tube header wasn't as beneficial to a good cylinder head vs just a stock casting. The fact is that a good cylinder head so benefit just as much because a good header makes it even more efficient.
    Long tubes aren't a "crutch" for anything, they just work, simple as that. As far as your comment about SBFTECH I never was a member so I really have no idea as to what you're referencing.
    1984.5 G.T.350 had since 16y/o
    95 Cobra, Crystal White

  3. #28

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    Here's a real world dyno testing on headers.


    I went to LT on my old 84 with GT40x heads , cam, intake, ect. I felt no noticeable difference and ended up feeling like I wasted my time and money. But I do feel like the benefits depend on the combo. Some combo's need the LT's and other's not so much. I also feel like a lot of the time people upgrade to a LT they have bigger tubes then the shortys they are replacing so that can benefit.
    83 Mustang GT , A5 5 speed, 31 spline Cobra rear, LMR TRX, 302 11r 190 heads, Buddy Rawls custom cam

    86 Capri , 342 stroker , AFR 185 heads, Track Heat intake, 3.73 gears

  4. #29
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    Thanks again to everyone who posted to my thread going to stay with my shorties and use that money for some other upgrades

  5. #30
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    2600-3600 slight advantage to the equal shorties in those dyno results. Lots of variables that influence results for sure.

    Always factor in RPM as for a street car those R's are where it often counts the most.

    One observation is the pistons were reported as stock but the head was a 2.02 valve. Those tend to not fit without cutting the cans which reduces compression and influences performance characteristics slightly.

    Also a stock head flows vastly different which has a big impact on output beyond 3500. You may never see a big advantage on a LT vs an equal shorty on a stock head motor- food for thought.

  6. #31
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erratic50 View Post
    2600-3600 slight advantage to the equal shorties in those dyno results. Lots of variables that influence results for sure.

    Always factor in RPM as for a street car those R's are where it often counts the most.

    One observation is the pistons were reported as stock but the head was a 2.02 valve. Those tend to not fit without cutting the cans which reduces compression and influences performance characteristics slightly.

    Also a stock head flows vastly different which has a big impact on output beyond 3500. You may never see a big advantage on a LT vs an equal shorty on a stock head motor- food for thought.
    I thought the same thing...and if you look closer, the block is decked such that the piston resides at +.005. Also, the heads were milled to yield 53cc combustion chambers. The way I see it...the aforementioned in conjunction with those 2.02 and 1.60 valves and X303 cam...some cutting had to be necessary.
    Last edited by bwguardian; 03-16-2017 at 09:24 AM.
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  7. #32

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    This is a good read.


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  8. #33
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Sorry to use Agent M as the poster child for long tubes...but...here goes!


    Zap's 85 GT speaks from personal experience. 408 cubes, 418 hp and 434 ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheels for his 85 before the current 950 carb and other mods ..

    with....

    Short tubes...

    And in order to get 362.3 hp and 350.2 lb-ft at the rear wheels of his 351c, he used long tubes.



    From his personal experience.

    The one off the cuff remark is fair...a great source of info can be ruined by people without Been There Done That credentials.


    My experience was from Ford builders in Australia....first job is to fit your exhaust. Next job is to test it. Some anti long tube comes from the fact that a specficially designed short set can ease your fitment issues, and gain real world low to medium range torque.


    Zap's engine, the way I correct it, is 460 hp flywheel. Long tubes, natch.


    Point is, if you go too early to long tubes, you may be loosing a lot of mid range, and adding the access and service issues. You certainly do with canted valve engines in old Unibody Stangs. Foxes and in line heads or Windsor base heads, maybee not so much, but on an AOD, yes.


    One guy on the Ford EFI GT 5.0 team said it best...."I'll bet everyone drops the headers and adds long tubes with 1 5/8" primaries".

    Wrong. its Seldom done as a first step. People are busy with going MAF, or better intakes, heads, and then trying to package it.


    Same down here with our 1992 to 2002 Windsor 5.0 and 342 Falcons. 42 mm long tubes tubes (1 5/ are some heat that's even harder to pack.


    But again, until you dyno test it, YRMV...

    I'll bet the long tubes helped Zap do this


  9. #34
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    There are plenty of guys that are more been there/done that than I am, but I know a pretty fair amount and have been wrenching on cars the majority of my life. From Age 3 on I was always helping my dad build stuff.

    The dyno pulls tell two very different tails. One of peak numbers, the other of similar numbers but far more average output.

    Which run was with shorties?





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