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  1. #1
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    Default Long tube headers verses short tube headers

    I have an 86 Mustang GT with BBK short tube headers and an H pipe. I just had a new motor built 306 .30 over afr 185 heads built for boost but will not be boosted for a couple of years. My question is should I stay with the shorty headers and the H pipe or go to the long tube with an X pipe Thanks

  2. #2

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    Once boosted you might feel a difference, but it's pretty expensive for not much power at your level.
    Black 1985 GT: 408w, in the 6's in the 1/8 mile
    Bimini Blue 1988 LX 5.0 Coupe 5-speed, Hellion turbo, zero options
    Grabber Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1: 351c, toploader
    Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's
    Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 390, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI

  3. #3

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    I disagree, I've put shorties on stock engines and not seen much gain but swapped to long tubes and boom, engine wakes up. Go long tubes now and you'll never look back.
    1984.5 G.T.350 had since 16y/o
    95 Cobra, Crystal White

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the advice much appreciated

  5. #5

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    Short tubes were a stop gap compromise developed specifically to get around restrictions on removing the cat. converters from new cars. Long tubes are superior power producers.

  6. #6
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    Default

    If I go with long tube headers can I use the H pipe I have or should I change to an X pipe

  7. #7

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    You may be able to modify your current h pipe but it's not a direct fit if that's what you're asking.
    1984.5 G.T.350 had since 16y/o
    95 Cobra, Crystal White

  8. #8

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    Long tubes. Do it once and be done. N/A motors need more help scavenging exhaust gasses anyway. When it's boosted the header choice wont make as much difference.

    Jess
    Previously owned;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  9. #9
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    I have long tubes, and I would not do them again. What used to be an easy car to work on is now a pain in the ass. Not worth the hassle in my opinion. Assuming they are unequal length, I'd take those shorties off and grind the sloppy BBK welds out of them and open up the collectors. If they are equal length, I'd put them up on Kijiji for sale before you start investing a small fortune into plug wires.

    Cale

  10. #10
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    I debated this for quite a while. Long tubes make more power, period. However, the giant pain involved in installing them, routing clutch cables and plug wires around them, maintenance on the car, starter heat, clutch changes,---- It goes on. My car is staying shorty headers. I'll make up the power loss elsewhere.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  11. #11
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    Is the conversation one of peak horsepower or average area under the torque curve, N/A or boosted, etc?

    There is raw low and mid power gains to be had N/A with long tube vs shorty. Peak it depends upon the actual setup as it could go either way. Certainly the added scavenging lets a bigger cam stay tolerable.

    Boosted it won't matter much.

  12. #12
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    I bought the motor off a guy who built it for a turbo it comes with a comp turbo Cam and afr 185 heads I won't be boosting it for awhile I have shorty headers on my car whith an H pipe the new motor will be going in in early April. Just wondering if it's worth changing to long tube or spend that money on upgraded fuel rails and an ignition box

  13. #13
    FEP Super Member bwguardian's Avatar
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    I have had both. Liked the long tubes but they are a pain. Constantly hitting and/or replacing the collector gaskets. Starter failure due to heat and when have to change it, the engine has to be jacked up, which means undoing the motor mount nuts. These are the ones I can remember for now, but there were more. I run the Ford Motorsport shorty stainless headers now. The welds were cleaned up with a small grinder before they went on the car. I have these installed with an off road x-pipe and like it...I had an off road h-pipe prior.
    Last edited by bwguardian; 03-13-2017 at 11:56 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Thanks everyone for your posts it helped a lot in making my decision. Going to use my shorty headers and H pipe with the new engine. Going to use that money for an msd ignition box and upgraded fuel rails thanks again Jim

  15. #15
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    You might want to reconsider the MSD box if you still have the Duraspark system. Unless you want a rev limiter or a 2 step, it won't gain you much, if anything. Boosted, sure, there are benifits to be had from a boost timing master or a programmable 6AL2, but otherwise, the Duraspark is a good unit.
    Last edited by brianj; 03-13-2017 at 03:51 PM.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  16. #16
    FEP Super Member mustangxtreme's Avatar
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    Starter failure due to heat
    If you run long tubes, I recommend a mini starter. I have been running long tubes with a mini starter for years without a problem.
    Dave

    If common sense was common wouldn't it just be sense?

    1983 Capri L T top 5.0 efi aod
    1983 Capri RS Turbo
    1981 Black Magic 400 c6
    93 F-250 351 5sp 4x4

  17. #17
    FEP Super Member erratic50's Avatar
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    I run BBK equal shorties - haven't had any trouble with plug wires. All in the ends and how you route them I guess.

    I had a few different brands of wires that I was not impressed with - they didn't work out well. They wouldn't fit in the wire looms, etc.

    I ended up putting on some NOS 1986 5.0L wires after getting fed up with FR, generic Bosch, SBF MSD, and Accel. I haven't looked back.

    Hard to beat factory on some stuff and fitment of plug wires is one of things where big name isn't always better. The factory plug wires are plenty big enough unless you're running an aftermarket ignition, etc.

    I will say carry a spare coil wire or put on a bigger one if you try stock style wires. I've had multiple EFI 5.0L's over the years and every last one of them burned off the coil wire under the rubber distributor cover or at the coil itself due to heat. They just get too hot when it's uncomfortably hot outside. Hot - lol - don't I wish..... Blasted ice and snow today!!
    Last edited by erratic50; 03-13-2017 at 04:41 PM.

  18. #18
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    Default

    I believe the motor comes with a mini starter

  19. #19

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    Never burned up a coil wire before from heat on a efi motor.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  20. #20

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    Haha, I guess I was lucky because in the years that I had just cheap Flowtech long tubes I never had any header gasket issues. I popped the first set of junk collector gaskets that came with them, went to aluminum collector gaskets and never had another issue. I swapped clutches, transmissions and a starter and can't remember any of it really being much hassle. I never had issues with plug wires burning because I had header wrap on my headers and it worked out great.
    Those headers were so affordable that when I first bought them I thought I'd have to put up with fitment issues but they were truly a great set headers for the money and they held up great with my car as a daily driver. If you just want to try a set of long tubes then buy a set of Flowtech long tubes and their matching h pipe. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
    1984.5 G.T.350 had since 16y/o
    95 Cobra, Crystal White

  21. #21

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    Long tubes help stock iron headed engines perform better. Kind of like a crutch. If you have shorties and aftermarket heads, then the difference is not noticeable by the seat of your pants IMO. Had two friends go down this road. Both were disappointed after the expense of going to long tubes.

    Equal length shorties are a major pain. Fresh motor mounts are usually required to get them to not be rubbing on things.

    Long tubes are a pain because they get in the way of various other things.
    Black 1985 GT: 408w, in the 6's in the 1/8 mile
    Bimini Blue 1988 LX 5.0 Coupe 5-speed, Hellion turbo, zero options
    Grabber Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1: 351c, toploader
    Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's
    Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 390, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zap's 85 GT View Post
    Long tubes help stock iron headed engines perform better. Kind of like a crutch. If you have shorties and aftermarket heads, then the difference is not noticeable by the seat of your pants IMO. Had two friends go down this road. Both were disappointed after the expense of going to long tubes.

    Equal length shorties are a major pain. Fresh motor mounts are usually required to get them to not be rubbing on things.

    Long tubes are a pain because they get in the way of various other things.
    So I guess the long tube headers realized they were on stock iron heads and just worked harder. I didn't realize that they got lazy on aluminum aftermarket units. The same physics applies no matter what set of heads the header is on bro. Don't feed people this bs.
    1984.5 G.T.350 had since 16y/o
    95 Cobra, Crystal White

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supersonic G.T.350 View Post
    Haha, I guess I was lucky because in the years that I had just cheap Flowtech long tubes I never had any header gasket issues. I popped the first set of junk collector gaskets that came with them, went to aluminum collector gaskets and never had another issue. I swapped clutches, transmissions and a starter and can't remember any of it really being much hassle. I never had issues with plug wires burning because I had header wrap on my headers and it worked out great.
    Those headers were so affordable that when I first bought them I thought I'd have to put up with fitment issues but they were truly a great set headers for the money and they held up great with my car as a daily driver. If you just want to try a set of long tubes then buy a set of Flowtech long tubes and their matching h pipe. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
    My experience with them too. Had a couple different sets on different fox mustangs. One set was even ceramic coated. Really liked how you can just pull a couple tubes off and get at the starter without having to remove the rest of the header. Don't have to unbolt the motor mounts either. Great bang for the buck.

    Jess
    Previously owned;
    1979 Mustang, v6 swapped to EFI 393, custom installed m122 blower, 4r70w trans, Megasquirt II, T-top swaped in.
    1990 Mustang, 545 BBF, C-4 with brake, ladder bars.
    1983 Mustang, 1984 SVO Mustang
    1984 Mustang convertible, v6 swapped to 351
    1986 Mustang GT, 1989 Mustang GT convertible
    1992 Mustang coupe, 4 swapped to 302

  24. #24

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    Yessir, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to run them again on a budget build. I'm only upset by one thing and that's the fact that Flowtech has stopped building the x pipe for them.
    1984.5 G.T.350 had since 16y/o
    95 Cobra, Crystal White

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Supersonic G.T.350 View Post
    So I guess the long tube headers realized they were on stock iron heads and just worked harder. I didn't realize that they got lazy on aluminum aftermarket units. The same physics applies no matter what set of heads the header is on bro. Don't feed people this bs.
    Where did I say they work harder? You'll just notice a bigger difference because the exhaust ports on a stock head are more restrictive. Pretty easy to figure out if you ask me. Yes long tubes are better, but at what cost compared to decent shorties? He already has shorties, the switch to long tubes will not net him very much compared to what he already has. $ per horsepower at this point will not net much gains. I've seen it over and over. Don't just discount other peoples experience. You sound like someone who killed off SBFTECH.com.
    Last edited by Zap's 85 GT; 03-15-2017 at 12:05 AM.
    Black 1985 GT: 408w, in the 6's in the 1/8 mile
    Bimini Blue 1988 LX 5.0 Coupe 5-speed, Hellion turbo, zero options
    Grabber Yellow 1973 Mustang Mach 1: 351c, toploader
    Black 2012 5.0 GT, 6-speed, Brembo brakes, 3.73's
    Wimbledon White 1966 F-100 Shortbed Styleside, 390, Tremec 3550, FiTech EFI

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