Close



Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    FEP Supporter 82GTforME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    4,255
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default No crank 1990 3.8 Thunderbird

    Son number one bought a T-bird to get himself to work a few weeks ago.

    Ran great so far but now won't start. No crank.

    Everything seems to have power. Turn the key, dash, fuel pump all seem to power up.

    Turn key to start, solenoid clicks, positive wire torques from current, no crank. Son said last week once the starter kept spinning after start; shut off restarted and okay.

    This time he said it "started, ran, then died, then restarted "itself" (?). He shut it off and then nothing.

    I think starter. We tried yesterday to get it off to take it and test and replace but wouldn't you know one of the two bolts wouldn't come out. Mangled the head. Car is getting towed home so we can get it out rather than on the side of the street where he works.

    Am I right thinking seized or shorting starter? I'll double check the solenoid with the meter once I get it in the garage. Not like I don't have other things to work on right now...

    Thanks for any leads.

    Pic of said car:

    Name:  IMG_1031.jpg
Views: 110
Size:  86.2 KB
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I think this is my favorite car on the site right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUECRAPI
    This is the best thread on the internet.
    Darran
    1982-1C (Black) T-Top GT RestoMod:http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...he-Road-Thread
    1986-9L (Oxford White) SVO: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-did-1986-SVO
    1979 (85:Tangerine) Coupe (my son's): http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...gerine-Machine
    1979 (3F:Light Medium Blue) Coupe (one day to be my other son's!) http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...other-79-Coupe!

  2. #2
    FEP Senior Member dtmilsap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Rose Hill,Kansas
    Posts
    671

    Default

    Looks pretty nice, my son has 95 t bird

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    lansing, mi
    Posts
    4,581

    Default

    Check the starter solenoid out and see if it is sending power to the starter cable with a multimeter on DC volts setting when he tries to crank it. Also check the signal wire. It sounds like the solenoid or ignition switch may have some issues going on if the starter was sticking on. The solenoid should look like this:



    It should have a one wire movable pole starter on it like the four eyed cars do. These starters need a very good connection to power and ground, they pull a lot of current compared to the later mini starters. I would inspect and clean the battery terminals, the starter cable connections, the battery cable to solenoid connections, the screws that hold the solenoid to the car since the solenoid grounds through them, the engine grounds, and coat them with dielectric grease. Inspect al the cables. Take the battery to Crappy Tire or the like and have them load test it as well if the rest checks out.

    Cale

  4. #4

    Default

    Put the other bolt back in, safely raise the car, turn the key while the kid beats on it with a hammer. That will usually get you home without a tow truck.

    Go to harbor freight and get a wobbly extension set and then walmart for a bostich ratcheting handle 3/8" drive socket wrench.

    It will cost you about $40, but you wont get stuck on a starter again.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  5. #5
    FEP Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    193

    Default

    Check the wires going right to the starter. I had a frequent no start issue on my old '93 SC quite a few years ago. I would put in a starter from my used starter pile. It would start for a week or so and then no luck. They all tested fine at the store. I finally went out and bought a new starter at the store. The new starter came with new leads going to the starter. Apparently they had issues with the wires corroding. After installing the new starter with the replacement wire leads I never had any more problems.

  6. #6
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    lansing, mi
    Posts
    4,581

    Default

    ^^^Your 93 super coupe would have had the better pmgr starter on it. The o.p. should have only one cable going to his starter if Rock Auto's catalog isn't lying to me.

    Cale

  7. #7
    FEP Supporter 82GTforME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    4,255
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Thanks for all of the tips so far. Unfortunately, I never got to do anything today. The car is jacked up and ready to go in the garage. I was at a coworkers stag party last night so it was a couch day. Hopefully I can get at it one day after work this coming week.
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I think this is my favorite car on the site right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUECRAPI
    This is the best thread on the internet.
    Darran
    1982-1C (Black) T-Top GT RestoMod:http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...he-Road-Thread
    1986-9L (Oxford White) SVO: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-did-1986-SVO
    1979 (85:Tangerine) Coupe (my son's): http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...gerine-Machine
    1979 (3F:Light Medium Blue) Coupe (one day to be my other son's!) http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...other-79-Coupe!

  8. #8
    FEP Supporter 82GTforME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    4,255
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    What voltage should the signal wire be giving the solenoid? I only measured 3.6-3.7vdc
    Now that I cleaned everything up and I am checking the voltages the solenoid isn't clicking anymore.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I think this is my favorite car on the site right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUECRAPI
    This is the best thread on the internet.
    Darran
    1982-1C (Black) T-Top GT RestoMod:http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...he-Road-Thread
    1986-9L (Oxford White) SVO: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-did-1986-SVO
    1979 (85:Tangerine) Coupe (my son's): http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...gerine-Machine
    1979 (3F:Light Medium Blue) Coupe (one day to be my other son's!) http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...other-79-Coupe!

  9. #9

    Default

    Unless there's something different in the system for that car, the signal wire (key, trigger) to the solenoid should have key-on battery level voltage... Is the battery okay, and the cables and such? Ignition switch in the column?...

    I concur with the fellas above. Any quirky stuck continual rotating of the starter and such will be the solenoid sticking in the triggered position.
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 03-11-2017 at 02:08 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible 3.8L ---> BUILD THREAD
    1983 Mercury Cougar 3.8L LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird 5.0L ELAN
    1966 Ford Fairlane sedan 200-6
    1966 Ford Fairlane GT (390ci 4spd)
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham
    1980 Capri RS Turbo
    1971 Mustang Fastback
    1974 Pontiac Luxury LeMans

  10. #10
    FEP Supporter 82GTforME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    4,255
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Thanks. This is the solenoid they gave me from auto value.



    Turning the key to run now still seems to prime the pump and power up the dash etc.

    Weird I'm getting the low voltage measure at the signal. All of the cables are good and just cleaned up.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I think this is my favorite car on the site right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUECRAPI
    This is the best thread on the internet.
    Darran
    1982-1C (Black) T-Top GT RestoMod:http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...he-Road-Thread
    1986-9L (Oxford White) SVO: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-did-1986-SVO
    1979 (85:Tangerine) Coupe (my son's): http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...gerine-Machine
    1979 (3F:Light Medium Blue) Coupe (one day to be my other son's!) http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...other-79-Coupe!

  11. #11

    Default

    Are you able to put the key in the Run position and jump the two large lugs on the solenoid and get it running? If it'll do that, that should rule out the battery (if it's at 12V or less stationary, it should be suspected as a dud or no longer taking a charge) and the starter (and all the cables) as the culprits. I'd try that and see how much (or if) it's charging (hopefully 14V+) while running. Otherwise, I'd follow that trigger wire where it goes and to where it should be somewhere in the ignition switch in the column, and see if things are loose or there's a sign things have gotten hot or something... lots of resistance can use up lots of voltage...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible 3.8L ---> BUILD THREAD
    1983 Mercury Cougar 3.8L LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird 5.0L ELAN
    1966 Ford Fairlane sedan 200-6
    1966 Ford Fairlane GT (390ci 4spd)
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham
    1980 Capri RS Turbo
    1971 Mustang Fastback
    1974 Pontiac Luxury LeMans

  12. #12
    FEP Supporter 82GTforME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    4,255
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Okay, so forgetful son forgot foot needs to be on brake to start. Almost full voltage. New solenoid probably wasn't needed.
    Power going to starter, cable from solenoid to starter torques with the current...no crank.
    Cut bolt head off, removed starter. Bolt is in tough still.

    Spayed some deep creep and sitting. Heat and/or pipe wrench will be next on the bolt. Wished I had a welder to weld a nut on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Travis T View Post
    I think this is my favorite car on the site right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by BLUECRAPI
    This is the best thread on the internet.
    Darran
    1982-1C (Black) T-Top GT RestoMod:http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...he-Road-Thread
    1986-9L (Oxford White) SVO: http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...d-did-1986-SVO
    1979 (85:Tangerine) Coupe (my son's): http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...gerine-Machine
    1979 (3F:Light Medium Blue) Coupe (one day to be my other son's!) http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...other-79-Coupe!

  13. #13

    Default

    News to me. I had a freind with a 94, never had to press on the brake to start it.

    It sounds like there are a few different wiring things that need to be sorted out.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  14. #14
    FEP Supporter 82GTforME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    4,255
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Haystack View Post
    News to me. I had a freind with a 94, never had to press on the brake to start it.

    It sounds like there are a few different wiring things that need to be sorted out.
    I thought it weird also. After your reply I did a little look around and sure enough it seems like it was what you really needed to do: http://forums.tccoa.com/6-general-te...start-car.html

    One reply in the thread (I'm going to have to check our manual if it even has one):
    When in doubt, check the Owners Manual. My 90 manual says that on Automatic Trans cars, "make sure that the gearshift is in park, set the parking brake and depress the brake pedal before you turn the key. The starter will operate only if the brake is pushed down."
    Bolt is out I tried heat and vice grips with no success. The bolt is too hard to get a good grip. A 14" good quality pipe wrench did the trick! I chased the holes last night before I shut 'er down for the night. Today, starter in and hopefully start up.

    The new starter gear will turn both ways while I cannot turn the one that came out in one direction. It looks like a valve cover is leaking a little and may have been leaking down onto the starter over the years. Not sure if related but may be part of it.

    Name:  IMG_1047.jpg
Views: 77
Size:  116.1 KB

  15. #15
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    lansing, mi
    Posts
    4,581

    Default

    That's weird about having to have your foot on the brake to crank it. We had a 94 3.8 t-bird and it wasn't that way. The starter drive should only turn in one direction, it has an over running clutch so that it can drive the flywheel, but freewheel if the engine speed is higher than the starter's. If it turns in both directions, the drive is no good. Pretty well all the starters in the parts stores have low quality Chinese starter drives in them. I had to pull the Carquest starter off of my Capri to replace a failed Chinese starter drive.

    Were you using Vice Grip brand locking pliers, or the store branded ones? I have a set of them from Crappy Tire and they are pretty useless with stuff like this. The Vice Grip brand ones with the lever release are the only ones that are any good. There are new Vice Grips out that don't have the lever release. I have found those are as worthless as the store brand knockoffs. I'm glad you were able to get the bolt out.

    Cale

  16. #16
    FEP Supporter 82GTforME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    4,255
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cb84capri View Post
    That's weird about having to have your foot on the brake to crank it. We had a 94 3.8 t-bird and it wasn't that way. The starter drive should only turn in one direction, it has an over running clutch so that it can drive the flywheel, but freewheel if the engine speed is higher than the starter's. If it turns in both directions, the drive is no good. Pretty well all the starters in the parts stores have low quality Chinese starter drives in them. I had to pull the Carquest starter off of my Capri to replace a failed Chinese starter drive.

    Were you using Vice Grip brand locking pliers, or the store branded ones? I have a set of them from Crappy Tire and they are pretty useless with stuff like this. The Vice Grip brand ones with the lever release are the only ones that are any good. There are new Vice Grips out that don't have the lever release. I have found those are as worthless as the store brand knockoffs. I'm glad you were able to get the bolt out.

    Cale
    Thanks for the help Cale. For the starter drive differences I was commenting to I meant the new one would turn easily one way and with effort the other. The one that I pulled out turned in one direction easily and would not turn the other way.

    For the vice grips, I was using ViceGrip brand but they are older and may have seen better days but the bolt material seemed hard. Just glad it came out! I would have had a heck of a time trying to drill or anything!

  17. #17
    FEP Supporter 82GTforME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Western Canada
    Posts
    4,255
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Thanks for the help everyone. I put the starter in in 10 minutes this morning. Hooked the battery back up, PRESSED THE BRAKE PEDAL, and the car fired right up!

    Amazing the pain one sticky, fricken bolt caused. We would have had it changed on the side of the street that first day if it wasn't for that bolt!

    Oh, and I checked the owners manual just to be sure:

    Name:  IMG_1048.jpg
Views: 72
Size:  125.4 KB

  18. #18
    FEP Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    193

    Default

    The early MN12's required the brake pedal to be depressed when starting. I think they did away with it after '91 maybe? My '92 did not need the brake pedal to be depressed. On the valve covers, check the valve cover bolts to make sure they are tight first. I've had several leaking valve covers on 3.8's through the years because the bolts loosened up on them.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •