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  1. #1

    Default Building a Clone of the 1979 Ford Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car driven by Jackie Stewart

    I am going to post pictures, ideas, concerns and needs to everyone during this process. I am about a third of the way into the project and will need to hear ideas and thoughts as I go through this process. I may also need help locating parts for my build.

    I have many pictures of the exterior of the Pace Car that is in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum but if anyone has interior, underneath or the engine bay I would gladly welcome them. On second thought, exterior photos will be welcome too because I am sure they are all different and can possibly help me.

    I have titled the picture below with: "Pace Car Gets New Home." The last six digits of the vin are: 480132. It is a factory V8 with a factory automatic transmission.

    Thanks, and enjoy!


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  2. #2

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    The three original pace cars were just regular hatchbacks that were pulled from the factory floor. These three vehicles had the drive train modified by Jack Roush while the interior and exterior modification such as the rear spoiler, T-tops, front air dam and graphics were done by Cars and Concepts. The pace car that was driven by Jackie Stewart and performed most of the race day functions is the one that is sometimes on display at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum. The other two are supposedly with Jack Roush awaiting restoration because they were repainted white after the Indy 500 and performed the pace duties for the Detroit Grand Prix in 1979.

    Some of the highlights of my build are going to be: adding T-tops, modifying the rear spoiler, and building the Roush inspired engine.

    So far the car has been completely stripped and the T-top frames have been installed. Car is waiting to be acid dipped.

    There have been several magazine articles highlighting the engines that Roush built for the three pace cars. These magazine articles listed the part numbers and modifications that he performed. I have located most of the critical engine parts. When I say critical I mean most of the parts that are visible. Most of the internals have eluded me as I have been searching for almost a year. My engine builder is the famous "Ohio" George Montgomery. He won the Nationals in drag racing many times over, mostly during the 60's and 70's. Him and his son Greg are known as one of the best engine builders in the United States. Since I cannot locate enough of the internals to the engine, George and Greg are going to build an engine that looks identical to the museum engine except it will have new technology for the internals. Side by side they will look identical.

    I believe the only difference between what I am building and the museum car will be the tires. Never going to find a set of metric Goodyear Wingfoot tires.

    As usual I always welcome feedback.

    Thanks,

    BillName:  480132 Disassembly 011.jpg
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  3. #3

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    Got a chance to check on my engine this past week. I could not be more pleased with the work Greg is doing. He claims to not be a good painter but the paint job came out extremely nice. Should be somewhere between 300 and 350 horsepower when completed.
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by bmaschinot; 04-13-2017 at 02:16 PM. Reason: format

  4. #4

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    Very nice Bill, can't wait to see it in person!

  5. #5

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    Cool project! We are pratically neighbors, depending upon where you live I'm probably only an hour north up 68.

  6. #6

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  7. #7

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    Would love to meet you sometime: maschinot@gmail.com

  8. #8

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    I was recently speaking to a gentleman on Facebook, name withheld to protect the innocent, about an engine he wanted to sell me. It was the back-up engine for the three 1979 Pace Cars used in the 1979 Indianapolis 500 race. If I remember correctly he acquired it from a friend who purchased it from an auction shortly after the Indianapolis 500 in 1979. It is a long block and included the oil pan, heads and intake. Not sure what else it included but it was most of the critical parts. As my thread mentions, I am in the process of building a 1979 Indy Pace Car clone (pictured and described above) down to the same engine parts that Roush used. For someone to offer this up to me is a once in a lifetime chance. For me to be making a Clone and to have the back-up engine is something that could not be duplicated unless there were other back-up engines built. The engine he attempted to sell me is nearly 40-years old and has never been run so you can see where I might have a few concerns. He gave me his price and that is when I began asking questions about the engine and the authenticity of it. I was merely kicking-off the negotiation process. As part of the negotiating process I mentioned all the work that would probably have to be done to the motor before it could be used, since it had never been run. I did not think about this at the time but it is possible that this engine is in perfect condition, depending on the type of assembly lube that Roush used and where it was stored. We weren't even 2-3 minutes into our instant messenger conversation when I mentioned that the engine would probably have to be rebuilt. I was thinking to myself that the last thing I would want to do is buy an engine at a premium price and then have it fail on me. I must have offended him like he has never been offended in his entire life because he abruptly ended our instant messenger conversation by telling me that he was no longer interested in selling the engine. He then blocked me from his Facebook account and has not spoken to me since. I do not believe I was overly aggressive in downplaying his engine. I was merely trying to negotiate the best price. I was considering paying his asking price but we never got that far. Who buys something nowadays without attempting to negotiate? He is probably on foureyedpride and if he sees this or anyone knows him it was not my intention to be offensive in any way. It is just my nature to try and get the best price but sometimes the best price is the asking price. I do not know this gentleman but all I can offer him at this point is my apologies and that it was never my intention to offend you in anyway. I would welcome the opportunity to resume this conversation with him and try to take this opportunity to the next level for both of us.

  9. #9

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    Posting some pictures of the Pace Car that is owned by the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum.Name:  IMG_1620.jpg
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  10. #10

    Default Pictures

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    Last edited by bmaschinot; 08-31-2017 at 11:15 AM. Reason: change pictures

  11. #11
    Moderator wraithracing's Avatar
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    Interesting how the pinstripe comes off the front fender and wraps around the front bumper unlike the Replicas.

    Cool Pictures Thanks!
    ​Trey

    "I Don't build it hoping for your approval! I built it because it meets mine!"

    "I've spent most of my money on Mustangs, racing, and women... the rest I just wasted."

    Mustangs Past: Too many to remember!
    Current Mustangs:
    1969 Mach 1
    1979 Pace Car now 5.0/5 speed
    1982 GT Ongoing RestoModification
    1984 SVO Awaiting Restoration
    1986 GT Wrecked by PO, but still want to save!

    Current Capris:
    1981 Capri Roller
    1981 Capri Black Magic Roller Basket Case
    1982 Capri RS 5.0/4spd T-top Full Restoration Underway
    1984 Capri RS T-top Roller
    1983-84 Gloy Racing Trans Am/IMSA Body Parts

  12. #12

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    bmaschinot : You didnt do anything wrong on the fact the engine has not been run since 1979, Maybe you should have not said it needed "rebuilt" but certainly needed to be "inspected" at least, as in pulling the oil pan and checking bearings, and looking at cly. walls camshaft,etc.. As the engine builder for your great project,cost to you would be minimal.Also if the owner stored the engine in a good,dry,climate controlled environment it may turn out just fine. but i have also seen engines ruined in improper storage many times. I do hope the engine owner and you do regain communication once again so you may have a chance to clarify your concerns. Gregg Montgomery/Dayton,O.

  13. #13
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmaschinot View Post
    The three original pace cars were just regular hatchbacks that were pulled from the factory floor. These three vehicles had the drive train modified by Jack Roush while the interior and exterior modification such as the rear spoiler, T-tops, front air dam and graphics were done by Cars and Concepts. The pace car that was driven by Jackie Stewart and performed most of the race day functions is the one that is sometimes on display at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum. The other two are supposedly with Jack Roush awaiting restoration because they were repainted white after the Indy 500 and performed the pace duties for the Detroit Grand Prix in 1979.

    Some of the highlights of my build are going to be: adding T-tops, modifying the rear spoiler, and building the Roush inspired engine.

    So far the car has been completely stripped and the T-top frames have been installed. Car is waiting to be acid dipped.

    There have been several magazine articles highlighting the engines that Roush built for the three pace cars. These magazine articles listed the part numbers and modifications that he performed. I have located most of the critical engine parts. When I say critical I mean most of the parts that are visible. Most of the internals have eluded me as I have been searching for almost a year. My engine builder is the famous "Ohio" George Montgomery. He won the Nationals in drag racing many times over, mostly during the 60's and 70's. Him and his son Greg are known as one of the best engine builders in the United States. Since I cannot locate enough of the internals to the engine, George and Greg are going to build an engine that looks identical to the museum engine except it will have new technology for the internals. Side by side they will look identical.

    I believe the only difference between what I am building and the museum car will be the tires. Never going to find a set of metric Goodyear Wingfoot tires.

    As usual I always welcome feedback.

    Thanks,

    BillName:  480132 Disassembly 011.jpg
Views: 654
Size:  66.7 KB


    Geeze, name dropping much!

    Thankyou, OGM is my hero, I learned horsepower calcs, the value of cement spare wheels, and how to plan a Supercharged engine from that guy.

    His Willy's and his leathal four wheel Leaf sprung "Gasser Passer" Ford Anglia 4-door sedan are the stuff legands are made of. FordSix has a bunch of guys who just love that sheet.







    Mr Montgomery is a legandary tight wad, who has kept all his timeslips and over the years, has shared some reall drag set up info.

    https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f=...p=48348#p48348
    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy
    Your car is kick a$$ cool.




    I've got it on my wall, along with these ones:-






    ( from http://www.nhra.com/50th/top50/G_Montgomery28.html , and http://www.gassermadness.com/daveedw...oit/index.html )






    I've been reworking my formulas based on what you guys have been finding. The 60 and 330 times are very conservative...I'm sure your gonna cut 2's on the 60 foot launch. Most six cylinder guys keep finding that they make the gearing steeper, and watch the times tumble.

    Sorry to keep up with the hero worship, Danny, it's just that real historical 62 year old cars aren't supposed to kick butt like yours!
    For me, Jack Roush created Mustang tin tip racing again. Period.


    We have about 4 or 5 very special cars that were essentially Zakspeed/ SVO versions of your IPC 79 5.0 engine.

    http://www.carpartsandmore.com.au/mustang/group_A01.htm
    Quote Originally Posted by car parts and more group A homepage
    Mustang Group A racing started in 1984.

    Bathurst 1984 James Hardie we saw two Mustang Group A cars race.

    #64 Laurie Nelson/Peter Jones and #69 Don Smith/Barry Seton.

    Dick Johnson/John French #71 white Mustang only raced on practice day.

    Group A Mustangs only raced at Bathurst James Hardie 1000 for three years 1984, 1985, & 1986.

    Drivers names listed in the three James Hardie 1000s were:
    Laurie Nelson Vic, Peter Jones Vic, Don Smith NSW, Barry Seton NSW,
    Ken Davison NSW, Russel Kramer NSW, Dick Johnson Qland, John French Qland,
    Larry Perkins Vic, Bruce Anderson NZ, Wayne Anderson NZ, Bill O'Brien, Greg Hansford

    Race cars are smashed and renumbered all the time, but with the exception of some really big shunts and rebodies, the MANZ and CAMS books show there were four basic European made, US sourced Mustangs.

    They are the Anderson brothers 84's

    Abes Babe (Don Smith purchased, ex Zakspeed, Europe, Car # 69 Nu-Truck Spares livery and driven by Don Smith/Barry Seton in 1984 Bathurst, http://www.nzmustang.com/Images/Hist...s/pinepac1.htm)



    It had some other hits when it was No 52 as well, look at this:


    Not too much of an issue, there were plenty of 'em around.

    the Black car (re-bodied once, I think, ex spare originally brought from Don Smith as well, http://www.nzmustang.com/Images/Hist...s/Pinepac2.htm)

    Dick Johnsons two 1984 spec, Zakspeed I, white in side #71 and later #17, but made a spare car http://www.supercars.com/news/champi...s-tuf-mustang/.

    Each of them ended up kitted out green like this



    both 1983 model year ex Klaus Niedzwiedz iirc

    Zakspeed II, later #18, and eventually resprayed in JPS colours http://www.nzmustang.com/Images/Hist...cecars/jps.htm and then, well, you know, its a race car....

    Lawrie Nelson ran a Datsun/Nissan Z Sports Cars/ Capri Components business, including this Group A Mustang




    I've found that Jack Roush's 5.0 was a work in progress, that effectivly gave birth to internationla Group A Ford Mustang racing via those three fortified and enhanced Jack Roush 79 5.0's.


    For FIA/FISA Group 2, all his 1979 work so hard won was then downgraded back into stock emissions components; when the non standard 1983 4 BBL Ho parts were added, even with the few freedoms of non emissions racing engines, the 4bbl 5.0 became again badly matched, and restricted, the 79 5.0 production race engines eventually were downgraded to 260 hp net using the stock 1983 casting heads (D9's, actually). That should tell you that the 260 hp net figure was much higher.

    The basic work he did back in 79 with the proper parts was very good. That quoted 260 hp net in 1979...it would have been far higher than that, so you OGM unctioned 5.0 will be a real pounder......


    LMR wheels and 245/50 16 time for sure.....

    Jack Roush did the International Group A Mustang 5.0 engines for Mike Kranfaus of Zakspeed and SVO....the 79 IPC engines were a lot stronger than 260 hp flywheel. The 1984 race year engines in the six SVO Mustangs that went to Australia, New Zealand and Holland and Belgium were a really restricted engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    ......Michael Kranefuss again, with Zakspeed

    SVO was set up in 1981. The first Mustang was the European Touring Car Challenge/DTM Klaus Niedzwiedz Mustang, most likely a 2v GT. So DJR could have been an 82, its possible. Dick Confirms his Zakspeed car was ex Klaus Niedzwiedz, NO PICTURES

    Looking at Paul Kooymans perfect photo's, it looks like the first 4V 83 GT European outing was July 31, 1983 at the Spa 24 hrs. Pilots were Philippe Martin (B)/Jean-Michel Martin (B)/Vince Woodman (GB)

    http://www.racingsportscars.com/suff...ustang/GT.html

    Later, Zakspeed took the 4-bbl 83 spec Mustang, not the 82 since it would have been a 2-bbl. The compliance work was then done very quickly, but they used a huge amount of Group 2 parts for which they already had ETCC approval, so the first Paul Belmondo 24 HR Spa Mustang GT July 29 1984 was a 83 compliant Group A car with 100% 4v engine, but BMW Getrag 265 series 5 speed, German Capri brakes and a Roush engine tune pretty close to the early 79 Indy Pace Cars. But the details were poor, with not more than 260 hp in the example Dick Johnson dynoed at Brisbane Engine Reconditioners. That's why it didn't do so well.




  14. #14
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    xctasy,
    You do realize that Boss 429 is Gregg Montgomery, Georges son, correct? It isn't just a 'name' in his reply? I am sure he has a wonderful memory of his dads cars and exploits. I have sat (once) in Georges office at the speed shop and talked with him for over an hour when I was piecing together both my '91 Mustang GT and (in particular) my '84 Turbo GT (as George has a fondness for both the 2.0L/2.3L 'Pinto' engines. :-)

    I am interested to see how this replica turns out, and if I am still in the Dayton area, see it once completed!
    " If you're not living life on the edge, that means you're taking up too much room."
    1979 Mustang Indy Pace 2.3T/4spd (sold on 1/10/16)
    1983 GLX vert 3.8/auto (triple black, sold on 10/8/13)
    1984 (early) Turbo GT (parts SLOWLY coming together)
    1985 Coupe 4.6L DOHC/IRS swapped (sold 9/10/17)
    1986 GT TTop 5spd (sold as of 10/8/13)
    1988 Thunderbird TurboCoupe (Cobra IRS/Brakes/big turbo project)

  15. #15
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Wow. No, 86GT2go, I didn't read all......I was just so knocked out and excited at the prospect of another rework of JR's old upgrades.

    I'm honoured, and Not Worthy, Boss 429. The chiding remark of another drag racer made your Dads nick name and exploits are a Hot Rodding institution like Ak Miller and all the others.

    Howdy all.

    390 Dyno flywheel hp was hiding with the stock intake manifold re profiled, and Devconed back together with a 650 Douple Pumper on the last 1987 Racing cars.

    This post indexes how vitally important the 1979 Indy Pace modified 5.0's were.

    Quote Originally Posted by xctasy View Post
    ...... The pet love I have is the foriegn factor. Ford USA used all its best Down home engineering sub contractors, and then sent there Jack Roush development engines over seas to be used in the grind of international Endurance racing. For most Americans, they see the Fox as a less than 65-67 Shelby Mustang, a less sucessfull kind of car to the verile 289 GT350 that ruled the US and International ciruit races as factory Mustangs. In actual fact, the Four Eyed Foxes were exceptionally cheap and strong long distance machines, that really upset a lot of Class Racing the world over. And IMHO, the nicest looking US cars of the 80's in race trim.


    The Zakspeed Belga/Esso car









    and the Belmondo Mustang in its two colorings






    Both of these ended up in the Antipodes, doing hard core service in demanding track events against much more powerfull 304 Holdens and Turbo 242 GT Volvos and BMW 635's, M3's and V12 XJ-S Jaguras and 3500 Rovers.








    The cars started of a woefully inadequate mild 260hp engines, which then rapidly grew in homolgated steps to progressively stronger to 320, 350 and finally, 390 hp engines with performance and reliabilty in Group A (Fisa Group 2) 1983-85 spec Mustangs.


    They started as Belgium owner/operator cars, then ended up being purchased my many campaigners down the bottom of der werlt in 390 hp form as very compentant 1984, 1985, 1986 and 1987 Endurance race cars. The story about how to go from the basic 1979 Indy Pace Car Roush engine (without the heavy duty cranks, Shelby intakes, and 351 heads but rather more stock 1983 GT parts) is very interesting, because 390 hp is what the old quad Weber 289 GT40 engines made in 1967 road GT40's, while the last campaigned Mustangs were right up to 2-1/4 times the power of the stock 83 engines with reworked stock intakes, 650 cfm 4150 carbs, and Motorsport ignition.

    Those cars were so strange with Mike Kranfaus's German Capri axles and Volvo rear disc brakes, and BMW Getrag gear boxes which were proof of concept for the disc rear brake SVO's and 5 speed roller cam 1985 GT's. The early non roller Jack Roush engines never met the 320 hp hp targets claimed, not even the 270 hp claimed for the 1979 Brickyard engines, but they were totally reliable!. They started off in 24 hour races in Spa and Lemans, and then got sent to Australia and New Zealand to further development on 400 to 600 plus mile endurance races. SVO subbed out there development work, and the result was a huge improvment of every aspect of braking, steering, and performance and drive train strength for all road going Four Eyes.


    The information is kind of easy to get from old magazines, but the missing parts are the questions only Americans can get answers for...like what 303 letter cams were used, how were the intakes cut, gasflowed, and reglued, and why the foreign, German gearboxes when Ford already had 7.5" axles and T5 gearboxes? Why did they down grade to the Koln 7.5" Atlas Axle and BMW Getrag gearbox?........



    That's with the downgraded factory standard 1985 parts and a few little "freedoms".


    The 79 IPC super speedway track spec is way better potentionally

  16. #16

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    Thanks Greg, I haven't forgotten about you, or my engine. I do not know exactly where you are with the engine but it looks pretty close to being done. If and when you need me for anything do not hesitate to call. That also goes for financials too. I'm not quite ready for the engine, probably 2-3 months away, but the project is rolling again. The body is at the stripper/de-ruster waiting in line and hopefully beginning that process by mid September. I think I'm next in line. The project was stalled for a short while because of travelling so much for work. If you are done with the engine and the it is in your way just let me know. Thanks!

  17. #17

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    86GT2go...I have done the same as you. Talking with Gregg and George in the office and in the front shop. It's an awesome experience that is very hard to describe on a message board. It's just very nostalgic.

  18. #18

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    Hey,, that looks familiar.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    FEP Supporter Broncojunkie's Avatar
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    I take it this build/idea was cancelled?
    79 Pace Car - 331, t5
    79 Cobra - working on 351w, t5
    86 coupe - rotbox roller
    86 coupe - working on 408w, c4
    88gt - 302 efi, t5

  20. #20
    FEP Member Prestige Auto Body's Avatar
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    I will let Bill comment on the progress.....but, yes it is still moving forward.

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