347 vs 363

[dtmilsap]

This is just something I have been thinking about. If you had a dart shp block would you build a 347 or a 363 maybe even something in between. Not sure if going FI or carb. Almost ready to pull trigger but have my doubts. Engine builder is semi retired and can build engine to my time frame ( when I have money ). I have money for shp block and rotating assembly now. Do have heads that might work with some minor tweaks to them.

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[Supersonic G.T.350]

363 hands down. 16 more CI, bigger bore to unshroud the valves, doesn't cost a ton more and the block from what I understand still has a ton of room to grow.

[Droog]

363. Either build a little motor and wind it to Mars, or else stuff as much displacement into the package as the block will hold. No reason for a 347 if a 363 is a viable option.

[4eyedfoxdriver]

I would go 363. But I'd also buy the Ford Boss 363. It seems to be a real solid package and it has a 2 year warranty. That for me is a big piece of mind with a performance motor.

[FoxFords&FFR's]

As they say, there is no replacement for displacement.... well you can add some boost to make up for it!!! Or you can have a 363 AND boost to make crazy HP. Price difference is probably negligible unless you were using a stock block in which case you cant get to a 363.

Mike

[erratic50]

I would not go to a 3.40 stroke in an 8.2 deck height motor unless it was purely for race purposes.

I would do a big bore 3.25" stroke engine instead. The rod ratio is better, less power loss due to piston friction, capacity for some more RPMs due to shorter stroke.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy2r3p...ature=youtu.be

I guess technically this might be considered a 347 the 'right' way.

[FoxFords&FFR's]

Yeah no doubt a better way to get 347. I remember back in the day when Ronnie Crawford had that Strawberry Metallic coupe with the longer stroke 347 in it wreaking havoc on the Mustang scene. That was the beginning of the stroker craze and people were still figuring things out. Nowadays there are so many combinations out there its truly a function of budget. No sense in porting a set of GT-40's when you can just go buy some AFRs that will outflow them just about everywhere. HP costs, how fast can you afford to go?

Mike

[cb84capri]

363 shp block hands downs. Boss block has short cylinder walls, I wouldn't use it for a stroker. Rod/stroke ratio means literally nothing.

What rotating assembly are you looking to buy?

Cale

[erratic50]

For the budget being spent I do not know that I would do either 347 or 363. I'm thinking about what you can get if you go to a 9.5" deck height - 351W style - block. Final CID is 408-427. Might even get more HP for the same money.

Then theres giant inch "small block" aftermarket stuff that's doing north of 427 via longer strokes and even bigger bores.

The main thing is what will the block you get hold. Dart, manowar, boss, etc, all have their strengths and weaknesses.

Solid mounts or Kmember to body spacers and a few thin hood spacers and you might not even need a cowl hood to hide a 9.5 block

The other thing to consider is the aftermarket "cleveland-ish" 8.7 deck blocks that can cram 400+ CID into a package that's nearly indistinguishable from an 8.2. Just requires a little research on intakes and gaskets and spacers to make it all fit.

[Haystack]

Id go 363, the price is the same and you will make more power at lower rpm's, which is where you will be driving it ,90% of the time anyways.

[slomont]

I would not go to a 3.40 stroke in an 8.2 deck height motor unless it was purely for race purposes.

I would do a big bore 3.25" stroke engine instead. The rod ratio is better, less power loss due to piston friction, capacity for some more RPMs due to shorter stroke.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy2r3p...ature=youtu.be

I guess technically this might be considered a 347 the 'right' way.

Is that from experience? My 3.40" 347 went 80k trouble free miles with the horrible rod ratio?

[erratic50]

80K - Good for you - you don't hear that about a 347 very often.

Input from a mechanical engineer is the basis for my comment.

That being said there are a different ways to end up at 347 or 363 if big bore. One that causes the oil ring and wrist pin to intersect one that has an even less favorable rod ratio.

At the end of the day in the short term there is rarely a replacement for displacement.

The rare exception is if you can pull enough more R's to make it becomes a cubic feet per minute through the motor type of game.

At the end of the day to each their own.

Enjoy the hobby friends

[Jack Hidley]

I have seen a 3.4" stroke crank in a 8.2" block where the piston rings only lasted 1 year of track use. The engine lost noticeable power from the piston rocking at BDC center that causes the faces of the rings to wear with a radius. When you mock this setup up, turn the crank slowly with the engine upside down on a stand. You will be surprised how far the pistons come out of the bores.

Everyone seems to worry about how much power the engine makes at 0 miles, but they never consider how much power it makes at 100k miles. Durability is not measured just by whether the engine runs or not, but also by how well it runs over its life.

[erratic50]

Well said Jack!

It sounds like there were tolerance issues on that example when it was put together but I totally agree on doing a few things for longevity. When there is limited time and budget it sucks having to wrench on something that turns out to be a money pit when you could be enjoying a more sound design for a bit longer.

BTW - this is the very same argument I would make for a TKO vs a T5 or a T56 vs a T5 if there is available budget. Budget is the only reason I'm still sporting a T5 because I know what I want and it's not garden variety and my currentvT5Z is close to it in terms of gear ratios.

Lately I've had some great quarters at my sales engineering job and I don't plan on putting up with a rusty car or a worn motor or even a fresh T5 for much longer.

Truthfully I really don't like working on Fords very much at all- I prefer driving them! If I wanted a car to work on mechanically I'd buy something known to be cheaper to work on and get their version of "good" parts then pray to the reliability gods over my PBO or Chevy or Mopar.

Everyone has a thought and a theory. I bought a foxbody because I saw the way the Nebraska and Iowa and South Dakota highway patrol clubbed the dog crap out of their patrol cars and for the most part they just took it. Some of those old pony cars even got nitrous thrown on them to run down high end cars of the time on the interstates and they did it quite successfully. Crazy considering the terrible brakes but that's another story.

[dtmilsap]

Not sure of budget yet, waiting for engine builder to give me some numbers. Haven't decided on ci yet. Builder is crunching numbers. He would like to build it with lots of torque.

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[Haystack]

Lets name all the engines with a worse rod to stroke ratio. Most are in heavy duty gas trucks and are known for lasting forever.

A "race" motor will be abused, beat on and probably over revved alot more then a street motor. Most guys that drag race do end of season refreshes even on a stock 302 bottom end.

[cb84capri]

I wouldn't condemn the 3.4" stroke 8.2" deck combination because one engine had rings fail after an entire season of racing. The combination of parts used, how it was built, and being raced for a year leading up to the failure may have played a role...

Cale

[Jack Hidley]

I guess I should have provided more information. The engine was built properly. The skirts of the pistons had a lot of wear from rocking back and forth in the bottom of the bores. I have never seen this ring or piston problem on any 8.2" deck Ford engine with a 3" stroke crank. I have disassembled more than several of them with various numbers of years of track use. I brought this example up because it is a case of the short cylinder walls causing a definite problem.

[dtmilsap]

After talking to paint guy I have decided to go with new engine first. Dart block,363. Bulider and cylnder guy are highly recommended. going with wiseco forged pistons, scat crank, and rods, isky hyd. roller cam custom grind and lifters. The heads will be Brodix port and polished. Bulid time 6-7 monthe as I will be paying him so much per month. I don't want owe money to anyone if i can help it. Most likely going carb to start. Maybe down the road FI.

[cb84capri]

Put a forged RPM internally balanced crank in it. A Dart block warrants the expense, and their journal sizing is amazing. Whatever you do stay away from Eagle. Why Brodix heads? You're buying pistons, you might want to look at Trick Flow 11r heads and buy Wiseco pistons with the correct valve reliefs for them. Howards boxed Morel made linkbar lifters are supposed to be really good. I bought my stuff at Fordstrokers.com after I got a membership on sbfbuilding.com and learned, and put it together myself. Actually the stuff he lists on his site is the good stuff to buy. I can't say enough good things about that place.

Cale

[Supersonic G.T.350]

Put a forged RPM internally balanced crank in it. A Dart block warrants the expense, and their journal sizing is amazing. Whatever you do stay away from Eagle. Why Brodix heads? You're buying pistons, you might want to look at Trick Flow 11r heads and buy Wiseco pistons with the correct valve reliefs for them. Howards boxed Morel made linkbar lifters are supposed to be really good. I bought my stuff at Fordstrokers.com after I got a membership on sbfbuilding.com and learned, and put it together myself. Actually the stuff he lists on his site is the good stuff to buy. I can't say enough good things about that place.

Cale

Yup, Woody is good people! One thing I didn't see anyone mention is that the bores in the Dart SHP block are long enough to help support the piston at BDC. The Boss block on the other hand doesn't have longer cylinders and doesn't support the piston. The Dart SHP block IMO is THE WAY to go.

[dtmilsap]

Here's a pic of my new block. Came in yesterday.

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[4eyedfoxdriver]

Nice.

Because this



SUCKS..

[dtmilsap]

What happened 4eyedfoxdriver?

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[Droog]

Here's a pic of my new block. Came in yesterday.

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That's pretty...