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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by vintageracer View Post
    The OEM's stopped using carburetors 30+ years ago for many great reasons.

    Maybe it's time you have the same epiphany?
    Reasons, oh yes, they certainly had their reasons. Care to list the "great" ones? I hope you do. We can handily separate the ice cream from the BS here then. Great? Not great for the "average Joe" trying to live life without huge expenditures for formerly personally taken care of things, as well as knowing how $hit works instead of being dumbed-down, disconnected, and just not caring how things work, just so long as they work... until they don't work. Then it's time to get your wallet out, for the sizeable $ outlay for just connecting the jalopy up to the who-jack to just scan the black box system. Depends on whose definition of great we go by and how fat their wallet is... I'll take the know-how or the learning, the minimal $ outlay, and the hand tools to DIY.
    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 01-27-2017 at 02:06 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  2. #27

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    The power valve was not even seated it was finger loose... Not "finger tight". I swear the gasket was not even seated.
    I freaked out a little bit when I saw the kit. But, I'd prolly say, most(?) of the stuff in it is redundancy supply for various models. Both kinds of valve seats, for adjustable and for non-adjustable... Orings and gaskets not for mine... Not as bad as I thought.
    (He says that now, but wait til he THINKS he's done)

  3. #28

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    There you go, lol...
    Yep, some of the kits cover lotsa bases for lotsa models. Don't sweat it.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  4. #29
    FEP Member Mgino757's Avatar
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    Jan 2011
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    489

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    I had an 80457-s that had the non-adjustable bowls. Yuck.
    1985 Mustang GT conv. modified 4180C, Weiand Street Warrior intake, equal length headers, true dual exhaust, 3.55:1 8.8'' rear end, 2003 V6 T5, Ford Racing 10.5" clutch.

    1998 Mustang GT auto. PI swapped. Daily beater

  5. #30

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    I got it all done except the elec choke and the vac secondary assy. I'll do that in the am, AFTER I go to the local body shop and finish sanding the owner's ATV sound pod I glassed up for his Polaris. Gas and Lacquer thinner today, Polyester dust tomorrow. My lungs are going on strike!

  6. #31

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    ...
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  7. #32

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    Car jumped to life at a touch of the key. Our idle screws back where they were. Got no vacuum gauge to set them proper. I'll have to do it tomorrow eve.
    Thanks guys!!!

  8. #33

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    OK fellers...
    Went out to start this am... First time starting in the COLD(well cold for South GA, 35°)
    Rough to get it running!!! Warm, is great. Just touch the key.
    Advice for carb challenged?

  9. #34

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    Btw, the car attempted to start and fired immediately but chugged and chugged and shut off so it's not necessarily a hard start more than it is some cold condition
    Last edited by Toid; 01-30-2017 at 11:15 AM.

  10. #35

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    Were choke checks and settings listed/shown in the kit instructions? When cold, with one pump, is the choke plate closing and the fast idle cam and screw engaging? Remove the air cleaner and verify those things are happening, when it's cold, opening/closing the throttle once. Chuggin' and chuggin' and shuttin' off could be too rich (choke plate not opening enough once running), could be too lean (choke plate opening too much once running), and/or a combination of one of those conditions and idle mixture screws not adjusted right. A good baseline adjustment for the idle mixture screws is lightly bottomed and then 1-1/2 turns out... to be more precisely adjusted later when the engine's warmed up for best/smoothest or highest smoothest vacuum at idle speed. Interpretation long distance and online is far from rocket science, but that doesn't sound like the fast idle was engaged...? Usually, if those two things are happening before you fire it up, the choke plate closes and the fast idle screw gets up onto it's cam, and once the engine starts, the choke plate opens a bit (~1/8") and it will run fast and fine, if the amount the choke plate opens when it starts is correct or close to correct... like we talked about above. Then it should just be a matter of adjusting the little fast idle screw so that fast idle is around 1500rpm while it's cold and the choke and fast idle are necessary for warm up...

    Last edited by Walking-Tall; 01-30-2017 at 11:47 PM.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    Past Fox-chassis "four eyes":
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1980 Capri RS Turbo

    Work in progress website ---> http://carb-rebuilds-plus.boards.net/

  11. #36

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    I have this box of the remaining gaskets and carb parts from my rebuild. Anybody want em? I'll box em up and mail them out if anybody needs em... Saves em... Can use em.

  12. #37
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dunedin 9011, New Zealand, South Pacific
    Posts
    3,961

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    Quote Originally Posted by vintageracer View Post
    The OEM's stopped using carburetors 30+ years ago for many great reasons.

    Maybe it's time you have the same epiphany?

    There was no problem except that in 1985, Congress had planned to go OBDII by 1987, but infact, there was a Operation Desort Storm era matter over being able to turn off fuel injection cars via sattelite, and the standards didn't come out till much later, about 1996 for the planned hastily revised OBDII, Evaporative emissions and the actual five gas targets.

    Oh, and the 22 to 25:1 air fuel ratios on over run and air only EFI intake can run pays for the fuel economy loss fuel injection suffers under load. That was a CAFE issue, although most carb cars got better Highway mpg than the port EFI for a few years. Open and closed loop stops you running lean burn 16.7:1 fuel air ratios like some carb cars could dole out.


    Before 1986, the overnight hydrocarbons and fuel up related purge cylce emissions from the FMV Test FTP 75 started killing off carbs.

    It was the California emissions that governed carb use requirments, everything was gonna have to pass the CA test going forward. Fors MCU and EECIV helped stay off the inevitable.


    By 1996, OBDII emissions and SAE protocols for fuel system checking made the Geo 1300 and Ford Festiva engines the last car carb engines in the US.

    Chrylser dropped the Ball and Ball based Carter and Holley 2209 in the Diplomat in 85ish, and then used GM Quadrajets, AMC dropped the Ford 2150 Motorcrafts in its SUV V8's and replaced it with Chrysler feedback carbs for a number of years.


    Legislation in SUV's and 8500 GVW cars was in lag, so they could keep carbs for longer. Its took until the last Canadian P71 Cop Crown Victoria, proably 1991 to kill off the VV7200 feedback carb, an astoundingly clean, economical, and smart design.



    The Feds started making carbs 50 000 mile aged tests an issue at the same time. I remember the 85 021 Paxton Supercharged 85 4V HO Saleen having a protracted seven year CARB battle to get EO order numbers, same with the Chevy S10, because carbs aren't self adjsting to altitide and fuel delivery without additional feedback fuel control. The unit cost for amending the VECI and vacuum line protocols for anything other than a port EFI car was just astronomical.

    Carbs can make the Evap limits, but it requires more activated carbon systems, and still needs to have ODBII protocls met, so the unit cost per carb car made carbs untenable after 1998.


    As for the Holley, it made theemissions targets by radical reworking to an emulsified air bleed carb design, with 2 stage power valves, bowl vent control, and half a dozen other Ford patent energising systems, specfic to the car work-arounds to do with EGR, Evaprative emissions, and component aging. So the 4180c/4190c and its use of Trucks, 460/possibly 429/370/5.0 and 5.8's was knocked on the head in between 1985 and 1987 due to the cost.


    To this day, people hate the 4-bbl 79 -86 F truck and 83-85 Fox 4-bbl carb engines because they force you to follow an 84 term VECI /EVTC diagram and Technical Service Brief laden instruction path...AINT NOBODY GOT TIME FOR DAT!

  13. #38

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    None of you serious carb guys want this pile of extra gaskets & pieces of 4160?
    Be glad to mail it to you... Contributing (however small) for the advice. Not the sort of stuff I'll hoard.

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