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  1. #1

    Default Winter Tires vs. "The Committee"

    So, tell me, folks. How do I convince the wife we should get some winter tires? I'm just looking to get some for the car we drive the most, the Fusion. I went on to Tirerack.com and priced out a winter tire & rim package. With the stupid tire pressure monitors, mount and balance, it came to the low, low price of $750 . That's with the least expensive winter tire, the Dunlop Winter Maxx, and 16" steelies. Bottom of the barrel. When i submitted that for consideration, she practically screamed WHHHHHAAAAAAAATTTTTT?????????!!!!

    The nice thing about these is, Ford uses the same bolt pattern for just about everything these days: Fusion, Focus, Escape, etc, etc. So they would also bolt right on to the Transit Connect we have on order. We've had an exceptionally bad stretch of weather for the past week, and i've really had it with sliding around on the highway and spinning the tires all the way up hills. If the stability control on these new-fangled cars isn't going to let me have any fun (drifting and so on), i'd like to at least have good traction.

    Anyway, what have you all done to get these past "the committee"?
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  2. #2

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    Being in the south, I have never had to have this conversation. Honestly, for what you are getting, 750 sounds like a great price. My first inclination would be to call your insurance company and ask them how much your rate would go up if you had an accident. Hopefully that number including deductible would far exceed the cost of winter tires. How much of that were the wheels? I know you said bottom end steelies but still, what about used junkyard rims. Then there's the TPMS if you do that. Winter is only a couple months, could you live with the dash light on for that long and just not have them?
    Liberty once lost is lost forever.

    John Adams
    July 7, 1775

  3. #3

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    The new steelies are $62 each. Don't think i could do much better at a junkyard. At least around here. Most of the ones I know of are "auto recycling businesses" rather than junkyards and like to ask you questions like "you know how much these cost new?" when you balk at their ridiculous prices for things. Either that or, they don't get cars as new as 2014.

    There's always the option to just buy the tires, i guess, but then I'd be looking at ones for 18" wheels instead of 16, and have to pay for mounting and balancing twice a year.

    That's a good point about the insurance rate going up. The thing about not doing TPMS is, i don't know if it's just a matter of having the dash light on, or if it's something like having the "Check Engine" light on and the car would never go into closed loop and kill my gas mileage. I do know a car's modules are all connected, but i don't know to what extent that would affect things.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  4. #4
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    Here in BC Canada, we are having our snowiest winter in many years, normally we only get 1 or 2 days of light snow for the winter, this year we have had snow on the ground for 3 straight weeks, about a foot in total. On both my 2010 Ranger PU, and my wifes 2009 Corolla, we have 4 snow tires on steel wheels for each vehicle, and did not go with buying the TPMS sensors. The tire warning light does stay on, but after a while, you just ignore it, or you could cover it with tape or something. If you do buy the extra sensors, be aware that the tire warning light will come on anyway, unless you have the sensor ID numbers programmed into the in car computer. Every TPMS sensor has a unique ID number, so any old ID numbers will need to be erased, and the new sensors ID numbers entered. So every tire exchange will require the re programming. If that bothers you, you could always have the snow tires installed on your existing wheels, but that costs more money as well. I am cheap, so I just ignore the light!
    1978 Fairmont 2 door sedan, 428CJ 4speed. 9.972ET@132.54mph. 1.29 60 foot
    Replaced the FE big block with my 331/4 speed in my Fairmont, best 10.24ET @128 MPH.
    1985 Mustang LX hatchback NHRA Stock Eliminator 302 4 speed best in legal trim 12.31@107 mph, but has gone 11.42@115 with aftermarket intake, carb, and iron Windsor Jr. heads.New for 2012! 331 cube SB Ford, AFR 185 heads, solid flat tappet cam, pump gas; 10.296ET@128.71 mph, 1.37 60 foot.
    1979 Zephyr Z7, all original 302 auto, 2nd owner.

  5. #5
    FEP Senior Member 83gt351w's Avatar
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    Once she drives a car with winter tires, she'll never have it any other way. True story.

  6. #6
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    While my wife's car still uses the all-season Michelin's on it (which work fine for the most part), I bought some 18" take off aluminum rims off Kijiji for my F-150 and put winter tires on them with the sensors. I did not like the winter performance of the 20" "all seasons" that it came with from the factory. Seems like every six months I am changing them out with the seasons but that investment have lasted six years so far so I think it was a reasonable expense (and combined it was more than $750). When and if I trade my truck in, I will more than likely be able to utilize these on the next one also so the investment keeps paying for itself.

    As long as you don't drive them in warmer weather or all year like I see some (lazy) people doing, they will wear well and last longer.
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  7. #7
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    The cost of a set of winter tires and wheels ic CHEAP compared to the real cost of a crash. It is more than just your deductible, it also includes the time without your car, reduced value when you sell/trade it in, time lost from work as you are getting treatment for injuries to yourself &/or passengers, higher premiums........ How do I know? Well, a lot of my income is from treating injuries sustained in MVC's, so I see the MONTHS of hassles people go through after a crash. A good set of snow tires will last at least 4-5 winters. Don't buy the cheapest, buy the best. They will make a difference. I have definitely avoided crashes when running snow tires that I would not have been able to avoid without them. My year round DD is a twin turbo V-12 front engine rear wheel drive car with about 900#' of torque. Drives awesome in winter with 275mm wide Blizzaks.

    Fwiw, running no TMPS's will not cause any issues other than the obvious light and lack of monitoring.

  8. #8

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    Here's the deal... and you can let the "committee" read my response.

    There is an undisputable night and day difference when you compare all season tires to winter tires.
    Winter tires undoubtedly give any car a remarkable advantage on snow covered roads.

    Many people think they are just a regular tire with some bigger treads... well, there is much more to it than that.
    The compound plays a huge roll in their performance. It's much softer and compliant in cold weather. An all season tire will be stiff when temps drop, while the winter tire will conform to the road surface much, much better.

    The shape of the tread is carefully designed to effectively eject snow so the grooves stay clean to keep a good bite on the snow covered roads... and they can be studded so even driving on a sheet of ice is possible.

    Now here is my personal testimony:

    I own six vehicles... 2 Capris, an F150, a Suzuki Swift, a 2 Wheel drive Ford Ranger and a Nissan Versa.
    The Capris stay in storage all winter and the F150 has a meaty set of General Grabbers on it and will go anywhere while in 4 wheel drive.

    However, when it comes to the Swift, the Ranger and the Versa... for each, I ordered an extra set of wheels with Firestone Winterforce tires mounted on them. I never worry about how much it snows or how bad the roads get or which car I want to take out... I know I'm covered.

    The biggest improvement I saw was on the 2 wheel drive Ranger. With all season tires (since it has an open differential) I would literally get stuck in my driveway on level ground!!! After I threw the winter tires on, I can go just about anywhere I want... granted, not like if it was a 4x4, but a vast, vast improvement indeed.

    Winter tires will arm you with a sense of confidence and safety that you simply just can not get from a set of all season tires.
    If I consider it a worthwhile investment to use them on 3 of my cars, the "committee" should agree putting them on ONE car is not a big deal. And if she finally does agree with you, when the time comes for her to venture out on snow covered roads and she experiences the performance for herself, she will wonder why she didn't let you put them on sooner.
    '86 Capri 5.0, black with charcoal interior, 5 spd, fully restored, mildly modded.

    '86 Capri 5.0, white with black interior, C4, rotisserie restored, heavily modded.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post

    That's a good point about the insurance rate going up. The thing about not doing TPMS is, i don't know if it's just a matter of having the dash light on, or if it's something like having the "Check Engine" light on and the car would never go into closed loop and kill my gas mileage. I do know a car's modules are all connected, but i don't know to what extent that would affect things.
    No worries about the TPMS light. It's a separate system and does not affect drivability at all. If your car came with a spare tire (some cars still have spares I would think) if you ever put it on, the TPMS light will light up.

    Another thing I don't see mentioned above is that you aren't EXACTLY spending $750. Meaning that the tires already on the car will last longer because they are in the garage for 25% of the year or whatever. So it's not like SPENT money, if that makes sense. You may get an extra season out of the All seasons then you would have. You do get something for the money besides just piece of mind.
    Last edited by homer302; 01-14-2017 at 07:31 PM.
    Liberty once lost is lost forever.

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    July 7, 1775

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by homer302 View Post
    No worries about the TPMS light. It's a separate system and does not affect drivability at all. If your car came with a spare tire (some cars still have spares I would think) if you ever put it on, the TPMS light will light up.

    Another thing I don't see mentioned above is that you aren't EXACTLY spending $750. Meaning that the tires already on the car will last longer because they are in the garage for 25% of the year or whatever. So it's not like SPENT money, if that makes sense. You may get an extra season out of the All seasons then you would have. You do get something for the money besides just piece of mind.
    Agreed, I factory ordered my 2010 Ranger 2 wd , picked it up from the dealer Jan. 2010. It now has 125,000 KM (about 82,000 miles), I have been using my 4 winter tires on extra wheels during winter weather, typically from November thru March, as a result, my trucks factory issue Continental Contitrac tires are still about 50% tread remaining. And as mentioned, the winter tires made a huge difference in how my 2WD, non limited slip Ranger gets around in the snow. The much softer rubber compound will wear out much faster if driven in warm dry conditions, but also provide better grip when the temperatures drop. Money well spent, IF you encounter actual winter conditions.
    1978 Fairmont 2 door sedan, 428CJ 4speed. 9.972ET@132.54mph. 1.29 60 foot
    Replaced the FE big block with my 331/4 speed in my Fairmont, best 10.24ET @128 MPH.
    1985 Mustang LX hatchback NHRA Stock Eliminator 302 4 speed best in legal trim 12.31@107 mph, but has gone 11.42@115 with aftermarket intake, carb, and iron Windsor Jr. heads.New for 2012! 331 cube SB Ford, AFR 185 heads, solid flat tappet cam, pump gas; 10.296ET@128.71 mph, 1.37 60 foot.
    1979 Zephyr Z7, all original 302 auto, 2nd owner.

  11. #11
    FEP Power Member dagenham's Avatar
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    My wife has an '05 Saab 9.2X. It is basically a Subaru Impreza with Saab badging. It is AWD. It gets a set of snow tires around the middle of November and they don't come off until the beginning of April. All season tires are worthless in the snow in my opinion.
    I think it is definatly worth the money for snow tires if nothing else the safety factor. Plus even on a sunny summer day we both have at least a half hour drive to get to work every day.

  12. #12

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    More good points, thanks! Saving tread on the all-seasons, undeniable traction & safety benefit (even on a 2wd Ranger!!), TPMS can be left off, if you're spending the money might as well get the best, and crashing is REALLY bad...

    Also, one thing i really like is it frees up the rest of the year for SUMMER tires, rather than stupid compromised all-seasons that aren't that good at anything. I have summer tires on my Zeph (why wouldn't i?) and they are SO good with handling, ride, and wet traction!

    Not that the Fusion is anywhere near needing tires, but say, sometime in the future, if a Focus or Fiesta ST were to replace one of the DDs...
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  13. #13
    FEP Super Member eric5oh's Avatar
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    My wife has a 2014 Mustang V6. I found a set of new take off wheels, tires, and sensors for $400. I sold the tires alone for $400. I ordered a set on Continental Winter Contacts on sale from TireRack for $500 and had a buddy mount and balance them. Minimal cost for a new setup. The easiest way to win her over is to drive a car with winter tires on it. Night and day difference.
    2017 Lincoln MKZ AWD
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  14. #14
    FEP Power Member plumkrazy's Avatar
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    If you are not ready to pull the trigger yet. I'm not sure what I can say. But here is my story

    Wife and I both drive Malibu's. She had 18's summer and now 16" winter tires me, I run snows year round. tired of mounting and dismounting and My cars are older. We also both drive 70 plus highway miles round trip. And Drive 6miles dirt road.

    Are road will drift in hours and nether one of us is afraid to drive down the road unless the drifts are deep. She has been buried 2 times in 20 years and it was all I could do to get to her with our plow. Her tires where off the road by 4 plus inchs and she said she lost forward momentum. Also those where 12plus storms with high windows and both times within 2miles of home from work. Also we get sink hole's in the mud during spring thaw.

    As for me and driving year round I still get 3plus years out of them driving year round. my background 26 years mechanic.

    Order the tires and next snow make her drive around the block then install the snow tires and have her drive again. She will be sold. I let people drive my car in fresh snow and they are amazed

    Also the 16" and still wheels are better for living thru a pothole
    1 of 3 1985 Silver Grand Prix Capr's
    My first New car and still own 1986 Capri

  15. #15
    FEP Power Member plumkrazy's Avatar
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    If you are not ready to pull the trigger yet. I'm not sure what I can say. But here is my story

    Wife and I both drive Malibu's. She had 18's summer and now 16" winter tires me, I run snows year round. tired of mounting and dismounting and My cars are older. We also both drive 70 plus highway miles round trip. And Drive 6miles dirt road.

    Are road will drift in hours and nether one of us is afraid to drive down the road unless the drifts are deep. She has been buried 2 times in 20 years and it was all I could do to get to her with our plow. Her tires where off the road by 4 plus inchs and she said she lost forward momentum. Also those where 12plus storms with high windows and both times within 2miles of home from work. Also we get sink hole's in the mud during spring thaw.

    As for me and driving year round I still get 3plus years out of them driving year round. my background 26 years mechanic.

    Order the tires and next snow make her drive around the block then install the snow tires and have her drive again. She will be sold. I let people drive my car in fresh snow and they are amazed

    Also the 16" and still wheels are better for living thru a pothole
    1 of 3 1985 Silver Grand Prix Capr's
    My first New car and still own 1986 Capri

  16. #16

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    Thanks, absolutely. I have no problem with steelies. The Fusion actually came factory with all-black wheels, so it would be hard to tell the difference unless you're right next to it looking.

    Also, i like the idea of going to a narrower rim for winter because the way i understand it, you want narrower wheels for best traction in the snow because they cut through it like a pizza cutter, rather than a wider wheel, which would try to climb on top of it like a sled or something.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  17. #17

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    Yeah, wider tires only help marginally in certain situations.

    Ive gotten by with just regular all season tires, but you have to drive sensibly and carefully. Ive been stuck one time in 5 years with good tread, and I drive year round no matter what. Last winter I pulled out a crown vic and two trucks stuck in snow, but I was able to pull them from dry pavement and good traction.

    Winter tires do make a world of difference and will get ya through just about anything, especially muddy dirt roads. Most dirt track races outlaw snow tires because they are so much better off road.

    Another thing to mention, ice is a whole different ball game. If you ever drive in feeezing rain, snow tires are basically mandatory. Go with skinnier tires, and pick a common size and they can be had much cheaper. Compare sized on a tire calculator and sometime shopping around online you can find a slightly narrower set of tires for half the price of stock size. I upgraded to 15" rims a while ago because I could get used 10 holes and a stockish sized set of tires for less then just 14" stock sized tires.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  18. #18
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    Winter tires are important. They save you money by eliminating tread wear on your summer tires, and keeping your no claims bonus intact. They allow you to plan purchases at your own pace.

    Down here, we sadly don't have a lot of Fords that have progressed to the emerging Mondeo/Ferrari/Tarus/Volvo 5 on 108 ( 5 on 4-1/4")stud pattern which you can often use to five stud your Mustang. ( push three studs and Bolt on the 17" space saver spare and drill an tap another four studs in, just like the VW guys do).

    We are normally Toyota, Falcon and Territory 5 on 114.3 (5 on 4-1/2")


    Its down the 45 th parallel here, so we have
    L-O-N-G twilights with no fast nightfall.
    Theres no dew point,

    Yet we get hail sorms, funny black ice and strange, non powder snow that ices up overnight, and slushes up during the day. The transition between the two states make South Island winter driving a challenge to the unwary; between ice rink, Nordic snow, and grit covered chip seal. We use CMA (salt) but we don't have the cold like North America...it gets cold only in snaps, like the record low of -14.8°F we got last winter. Yet it'll be us much as 105.8°F in summer, but the swings are slow, and its not dangerous, but again, winter driving is kind of odd because we have like 3500 feet zones within just 225 miles of the coast, so you'll drive 3 hours and suddenly be in the snow, or drive one block and be on the ice.


    We've had 4 four wheel drives, two 96 RAV4's, the 98 Explorer, and the 96 Nissan Stagea.

    I love 16" snow tires on everything. My old Toyo Transpath mud and snows saved my life many times, and I put em on rotation on two SUV's. .

    I used M&S 235/60 16's on my 4x4 Explorer,

    and transfered them on 16 x 8 j rims over to our 96 RAV4.

    Same stud pattern, and the Ford 16 x 8 rims fit the RAV4's.



    We use Pirelli Scorpion STR's for summer and Four wheel drives like em too.

    Same with my 4WD Nissan Stagea. Got the STR 235's on now, then the all year round winter tires will go on, probably Pirelli Winter Sottozero 3.




    When I get a Fox again, I can't run 27" tall tires on the front, so it'll be half tread depth 225/60 R 16's on the front to get down to the Lincoln LSC size the front needs for clearance , and 235/60's on the back, and I'll do the same rotation.

    So I can swap, I'll do the4 on 108 to 5 on 114.3 redrill to the LMR TRX's

    Like this, only the five studs don't intersect, one is slotted like 5 on 114.3s and 5 on 120's





    and use the late SN 95 OEM Cobra wheel center caps from them or the 84 LSC VII 5 Lug Center Cap 15" Alloy Wheels





    And just so you know...the old Michellin TRX's worked really good in the ice and snow...my mix of ancient BMW 528i 200/60 hr 390 tires never put me wrong.

  19. #19
    FEP Super Member xctasy's Avatar
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    I've got some old RAV4 16 x 6.5 j wheels on E36 offset rims. They fit the RAV4, the Stagea, and, with a little work, my next Mustang if things work out.

    About the same as SVO 16 x 7 's, only a little narrower.

    Since Little Foxes normally have tire height issues at the front,

    Ive decided to use 225/60 16 Winter tires, which are too tall to fit a Fox at the front.

    After a few thousand miles of driving, they wear out.

    And go from 26.6" tall loaded diameter to 25.6", which is the critical height on Mustangs and Capris to clear the PVC liners.

    SUV tires normally have about 11/16 tread depth, so there is a 9/16 x 2 or 1-1/8 " total tire height size decline before they become illegal.

    1. eliminating tread wear on your summer tires, and
    2. keeping your no claims bonus intact.
    3. They allow you to plan purchases at your own pace
    and lastly,

    4. your partner has to be worth at least the price of safer winter tires.

    And that's how you sell the idea of winter tires to your beloved...

  20. #20
    FEP Super Member mmb617's Avatar
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    I found out a long time ago that all season tires, aren't. They don't begin to compare to dedicated winter tires. They try to do two very different things and as a result don't do either as well as they could.
    408/T5/3.73's

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  21. #21
    FEP Power Member Ray Dog's Avatar
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    originally posted by xctasy

    4. your partner has to be worth at least the price of safer winter tires.
    Include the value of offspring and other family.
    I'm sure that would will erase all opposition.

    Got my wife to agree on replacing the Saturn by saying I lost faith in it keeping her and our son safe.
    Ray
    86 Mustang LX 3.8 Convertible (bought new}
    65 Galaxie 500 XL 390 auto
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  22. #22

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    Definitely agree about the "all-seasons". I definitely feel like I'm struggling for traction more than many others around me. And I've got front wheel drive and a manual!

    Well said too, XC and Ray.
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  23. #23

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    I pick up the winter tires Tuesday! I ended up with 16" steelies and Continental Wintercontact SI XLs. Tirerack says they compare very favorably with their recent test winner, the latest version of Blizzaks. Can't wait to try them!!
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

  24. #24
    FEP Power Member plumkrazy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZephyrEFI View Post
    I pick up the winter tires Tuesday! I ended up with 16" steelies and Continental Wintercontact SI XLs. Tirerack says they compare very favorably with their recent test winner, the latest version of Blizzaks. Can't wait to try them!!
    Hope you get some snow just you can Enjoy the new found traction.
    1 of 3 1985 Silver Grand Prix Capr's
    My first New car and still own 1986 Capri

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by plumkrazy View Post
    Hope you get some snow just you can Enjoy the new found traction.
    no kidding. We don't have much left! Lots of winter months left to go though...
    Brad

    '79 Mercury Zephyr ES 5.0L GT40 EFI, T-5
    '17 Ford Focus ST
    '14 Ford Fusion SE Manual

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