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  1. #1
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    Default In the market for a new starter...

    I'm looking to upgrade to the smaller permanent magnet gear reduction starter like those used on 92+ Mustangs. Does anyone know of a manufacturer that uses American made starter drives? Or am I better off buying a cheapo like a Powerselect from Rock Auto, and then picking up a Victory Lap repair kit so it will have an American made starter drive in it? I'm sick of over paying for the same parts in a different box, and I don't like spending my money on crap either. My current starter had a Chinese drive gear in it that failed a couple years back...

    Also, is there any issues with jumpering the solenoid off of the starter cable, and keeping the rest of the system the same?

    Thanks,
    Cale

  2. #2

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    I walk around junkyards and look for mini starters people just left behind or even laying in the mud. Hose it off and wire it up. 10 minute job with the proper tools.

    The hole for the bolt is smaller on the stock cable, so drill it out a bit and good to go. Once it's all wired up, put the small trigger wire on the switched side of the solenoid and the bigger cable on the same side as the battery.

    Had much better luck with junkyard starters then parts stores. Think the last one cost me $9 with core.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  3. #3
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    If you simply jump the solenoid on the new mini starter to the battery cable, the starter can get stuck on and get trashed pretty quickly, probably taking the ring gear out with it. As haystack said, just move the starter battery cable from the switched side of the old solenoid to the battery side so it is constantly hot, and run a trigger wire from the old solenoid switched side to the trigger stud on the new starters solenoid. Very simple.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  4. #4
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    Default

    Brianj I'm talking about jumpering the solenoid on the starter off of the power feed to it, which is switched on/off by the fender mounted solenoid right now if that makes sense. I don't think it should be any more prone to sticking on than the stock configuration.

    Haystack, I was originally going to go the junkyard route, however the u-pull nearest to me with the best prices around here is a half hour drive each way, $2 entry fee, $19.99 for the starter, $7 for the core I don't want to return, and it's a swamp right now and they may not have a starter clean enough for this car. The Rock Auto starter can be in my hands for around $60, will be nice looking and clean, and nice for me to open up and go through.

    Cale

  5. #5

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    I'm not familiar with the newer starter you're referring to, but if their solenoid only does the same as older GM starter solenoids on the starters did/do, especially on vehicles with headers, where exhaust heat would cook and nearly or fully seize the solenoid from moving. The common fix is a Ford solenoid on the fender well and jumpering like you're saying. I did it myself with my '74 Pontiac. After a new camshaft got broke-in, the long tube headers thoroughly roasted the GM solenoid, and I added a Ford solenoid. On the subject, IMHO, newer, horizontally-acting Ford solenoids are designed for an earlier death (part of the problem with the GM style solenoids too) than the old long-lasting vertical-acting Ford ones where the plungers only had to counter gravity, not (with running clearance, are initially or eventually cylindrically-cocked) side loading too.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1966 Ford Fairlane sedan
    1966 Ford Fairlane GT
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham
    1980 Capri RS Turbo
    1971 Mustang
    1974 Pontiac LeMans

  6. #6

  7. #7
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cb84capri View Post
    Brianj I'm talking about jumpering the solenoid on the starter off of the power feed to it, which is switched on/off by the fender mounted solenoid right now if that makes sense. I don't think it should be any more prone to sticking on than the stock configuration.
    .

    Cale
    What happens- the starter starts the car (obviously ) and for a second, until the Bendex disconnects the starter motor from the flywheel, the motor actually spins the starter instead of the other way around. When you spin a motor, it acts as a generator. The starter will actually put out 12V. Since the power lead of the starter is jumped to the solenoid, it puts 12V to the solenoid, keeping the starter engaged.With the starter still engaged, more power going out--- it just keeps going until either the starter grenades or the teeth burn off the ring gear. It is usually a combination of both. It usually only happens when you start at a higher rpm than normal, like having it floored to clear flooding, but it COULD happen any time.
    Last edited by brianj; 01-12-2017 at 04:06 PM.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  8. #8

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    Guess im spoiled, closest junkyard to me is an hour each way, 2 for the one I like.
    2 1986 cougars (both 4 eyed and 5.0)
    1 1987 cougar

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by cb84capri View Post
    Haystack, I was originally going to go the junkyard route, however the u-pull nearest to me with the best prices around here is a half hour drive each way, $2 entry fee, $19.99 for the starter, $7 for the core I don't want to return, and it's a swamp right now and they may not have a starter clean enough for this car. The Rock Auto starter can be in my hands for around $60, will be nice looking and clean, and nice for me to open up and go through.

    Cale
    Wise choice. A junk yard starter's brushes and "lubed for life" bearings might last years, or might last minutes.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1966 Ford Fairlane sedan
    1966 Ford Fairlane GT
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham
    1980 Capri RS Turbo
    1971 Mustang
    1974 Pontiac LeMans

  10. #10
    FEP Super Member cb84capri's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brianj View Post
    What happens- the starter starts the car (obviously ) and for a second, until the Bendex disconnects the starter motor from the flywheel, the motor actually spins the starter instead of the other way around. When you spin a motor, it acts as a generator. The starter will actually put out 12V. Since the power lead of the starter is jumped to the solenoid, it puts 12V to the solenoid, keeping the starter engaged.With the starter still engaged, more power going out--- it just keeps going until either the starter grenades or the teeth burn off the ring gear. It is usually a combination of both. It usually only happens when you start at a higher rpm than normal, like having it floored to clear flooding, but it COULD happen any time.
    I think you have a really good point and from what you're saying I think I may have figured out how to do it the way I want to. I never thought about the reverse current spike of shutting it off that would go to the solenoid. The only thing is that the starter shouldn't be able to be driven by the engine as they have a one way clutch incorporated into the drive gear. I think if I put some sort of a blocking diode inline in the jumper wire, I could do it the way I want to.

    Mike, this is the starter I'm going to buy:



    I think the solenoids are essentially the same as the GM ones. The gear reduction of these is supposed to make them a lot more powerful than the original style.

    Cale

  11. #11

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    When you let go of the key, there's no more solenoid connection. No more input voltage. The starter no go, no more. You're right about the one-way function. They're purpose-built like that. Even if the return spring for the drive were missing, flywheel contact/engagement after releasing the key shoves the drive back into the starter.

    Yep, that looks like the one I looked at briefly. If the drive gets kicked out, electromagnetically, like a regular Ford starter without an attached solenoid, then yeah, same difference, bypass-able, and will never ever be a heat-soaked-solenoid slow-cranking-starter issue like the older GMs. Yes, most beneficial on high compression engines for sure.
    Mike
    1986 Mustang convertible ---> BUILD THREAD
    1983 Mercury Cougar LS
    1986 Ford Thunderbird ELAN
    1966 Ford Fairlane sedan
    1966 Ford Fairlane GT
    1981 Mercury Marquis Brougham
    1980 Capri RS Turbo
    1971 Mustang
    1974 Pontiac LeMans

  12. #12
    FEP Member brianj's Avatar
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    Install instructions from Ford. It's a PDF, so it will download if you click it, just to warn you.

    fordinstshtm-11000a50a75b50b75.pdf

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    Last edited by brianj; 01-12-2017 at 10:34 PM.
    1983 Mustang G.T. No-option stripper- I like strippers.
    5.0, GT40P heads, Comp Cams XE270HR-12 on 1.6 rockers, TFI spring kit, Weiand 174 blower, Holley 750 mechanical secondarys, Mishimoto radiator, Edelbrock street performer mechanical pump, BBK shortys, T-5 conversion, 8.8 rear, 3.73 gears, carbon fiber clutches, SS Machine lowers, Maximum Motorsport XL subframes, "B" springs.

  13. #13
    FEP Supporter Mgino757's Avatar
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    Default

    I manage a Pep Boys store. I just bought a remanned unit from work for a 92+ 5.0 Mustang. I've been using the same starter for 3 years now with no issues at all. Best thing I have ever done to the car after having the old style burn up starter solenoids.
    1985 Mustang GT conv. modified 4180C, Weiand Street Warrior intake manifold, equal length headers, true dual exhaust, 3.55:1 8.8'' rear end, 180* thermostat, Ford Racing 10.5" clutch. Garage dweller.

    1998 Mustang GT auto. Stock and slow daily driver.

    1996 Thunderbird LX 4.6L V8. Wrecked, drag racing in heaven. RIP Oct 1995-March 24, 2016.

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