single stage paint, can it shine line base/clear?

[hawk232]

car is dull overall. today i wetsanded the roof with 1500 then hit it with 3m perfect it rubbing compound with white pad then perfect it ultra fine with blue pad then a quick coat of zaino polish. the result is several order of magnatudes better than it was but the reflection lacks the depth that i can get out of base/clear. will it every have that depth or am i just grinding away paint??

[wraithracing]

Do you have any idea what brand of paint and what line the car is sprayed in?

Do you know how many coats of paint are on the car?

Simple answer is that Yes a single stage can look just as good as a BC/CC in many cases. BC/CC has an advantage that when you buff it out you aren't buffing the actual color, but the clear coat ( well you better hope you are! ) so that has some benefits. The biggest issue is making sure you don't remove too much paint in either situation.

Personally I would recommend going at least one step further with your color sanding and at least cutting it down with 2000 grit before buffing and polishing. You might also consider doing the 2000 Grit, and then either 2500 or 3000 for the best shine. Bottom line is the smoother the paint before buffing the easier and quicker the buffing goes and the better the shine should be.

Hard to tell from the pictures, but to me it looks like the car needs to blocked out more to get that deep mirror reflection shine that I think you want. Honestly if the paint job was sprayed over body work that wasn't blocked out to perfection then you will most likely never get that mirror reflection before you cut thru the paint.

[dagenham]

Your just sanding away paint. The deep look comes from the layers of clear that are applied over top of the base color. I would still do the to the rest of the car what you obviously did to the roof. If you keep a coat of good wax on it it will stay shiny.

[wraithracing]

Your just sanding away paint. The deep look comes from the layers of clear that are applied over top of the base color. I would still do the to the rest of the car what you obviously did to the roof. If you keep a coat of good wax on it it will stay shiny.

That is somewhat true. In the case of dark colors such as Black a single stage will often look deeper and richer than a BC/CC due to the white milky affect that clear can have. Not that you really see the white or yellow in the clear, but it can still dull the rich deep look of black paint.

The other point here is that the number of coats of paint doesn't guarantee a deep reflective look. The deep reflective look is achieved first by the body work being flat and straight. This provides an excellent base for the light and images to reflect off of. On top of that you spray the final color coats. Then for the best reflection and shine you cut and buff that color coat to a perfectly flat and straight surface again to reflect light and images with perfect clarity.

If you body work is half-assed and or your paint is not laid down perfectly then it won't matter how many coats of paint you spray. Bottom line a great paint job is 90% prep and body work.

Once your paint has been polished to perfection you should protect it with a good coat of carnauba wax or one of the latest synthetic paint sealants.

[Jerry peachuer]

Looks good man keep it up

3m imperial hand glaze works well for bringing out the best in the paint before the wax mentioned above

When you do sand by hand use a foam pad that flexes to the body typically these are 1/2 x3 x3-1/2 soft foam to keep even pressure on the panel
You will feel when you need to go to the next grit

I would stop around 2000 before trying to polish
We went up to 4000 grit on a DA and looks deep as hell for a non booth job it has tons of depth
That's a new paint job though

Bad body work only looks worse when you polish a car that has bad work

My opinion
Your car could get a lot better on the sides but the top panels with direct sun maybe hard to bring back but it's already a difference

[hawk232]

sounds like i will never get quite as good as i am hoping. the paint does not appear to have been laid down the best, there are imperfections and even a very slight sag here and there. i will follow through to 3000 grit then polish out how i did today and call it quits (after protecting it of course)

[1986Saleen]

IMO -
Single Stage can get to 95% of BC/CC.

You have to treat it completely different than modern BC/CC paint though. Different technique, different products. Most of the modern products are designed to add shine on top of a hard clear coat. To get depth from SS, you need to refresh the paint and add life back to it with oils...


Personally, I would NOT go the sanding & rubbing route, you're just removing paint, and it was notoriously thin to begin with.
Here's what I've done on several cars. I've yet to lay sandpaper on a single car since reading this article. It works, and preserves what's there.
GREAT Single Stage specific article here: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...ge-paints.html

My 2R red was cloudy just like the right side of your picture. I'm no expert, but here's my result on 31 year old paint:

[84StangSVT]

^^^^ I agree with Bob. Using the advice I was given here, I was able to get an excellent shine on my vert's 30 year old original paint without the use of sandpaper.

Here is my thread on it:
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...furb-old-paint

Before:


After:

[sowaxeman]

Great article referenced there Bob. I'm in a similar situation with an '84 GT (Black) that I am resurrecting right now. I'd love to follow the simple advice in that article, however the car I am working on is not just oxidized but riddled with scratches and swirls from poor storage practices. Thus I have to get aggressive with some rubbing compound. I'm sure color sanding would do much better than the results I am getting...but it is not my car and I am not comfortable with sandpaper on a one-owner, all original car. Thus I will get it shining as best I can and the next owner can take it further if they desire.

BTW if there is a better looking, DRIVEN all original car our there than Bob's '86 Saleen... then I'm gonna need to see it to believe it

[1986Saleen]

Thanks Jason.

I dealt with quite a few scratches and swirls as well, especially across the center of the hood and the front fenders. AFTER the paint is properly conditioned / revived is when you need to deal with those. I think it's about the 3rd or 4th section of the article where he talks about M80 Compound. I've used M83 for more aggressive scratches, and also used the Ultimate Compound on others.

IMHO, the most important take-away from the article is to revive & condition the paint first, instead of just jumping in with sandpaper or rubbing compound (which dries the paint even further) first.

I've tried several methods thruout the years, but find it hard to hard to beat the Wash / Clay / M7 / M7 / Ultimate Compound / Ultimate Polish / Ultimate Wax progression for an average "go to" progression on SS paint. (Although, here lately, Chemical Guys Butter Wax is becoming my favorite last step - that stuff is INSANE )...

Every car is different though!

[ZephyrEFI]

Hawk, out of curiosity, why did you use such a fine pad with your compound?

[wraithracing]

All of the information above is excellent advice. The issue I see is that the OP car appears to be a repaint and not an OEM paint job. Not that the advice above doesn't have merit, but in this case, I believe the paint job is no where near the quality of OEM in regards to being laid down relatively flat and smooth.

That is just my .02 worth. I will also admit that I have limited experience with trying to restore/revive original paint since virtually every Fox I have ever owned was either a basket case or a damaged car when I purchased it. Maybe one of these days I will actually buy one that isn't a complete wreck and just drive it! Yeah! Probably NOT!

[Jerry peachuer]

^^^^ I agree with Bob. Using the advice I was given here, I was able to get an excellent shine on my vert's 30 year old original paint without the use of sandpaper.

Here is my thread on it:
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...furb-old-paint



Before:


After:

Wow this is incredible Brock
Everything I touched was near new paint or boat related

Meguiars makes a (one step) kit which offers 3 pads and 1 compound that I used on my 85 gt original paint before the repaint with really great outcome

Just curios though are OEM paint jobs"single stage " back in early 80's??

[Jerry peachuer]

Correction on the meguiar kit
That was for marine (mostly water lines)

[ashley roachclip]

My original paint 84 is infact single stage.

[wraithracing]

Just curios though are OEM paint jobs"single stage " back in early 80's??

Yes they are single stage in that they are not base coat/clear coat which is 2 stage paint system. A Tri coat is popular right now with all the pearls and metallics.

My original paint 84 is infact single stage.

Yes, it is single stage in that it's enamel

Single stage today is generally a single stage urethane in that the top coat is a catalyzed color coat. Which again is different than a 2 stage BC/CC.

[homer302]

I used 1500, 2000, 3000 and the exact same products that 1986Saleen has pictured and I love the results. They used single stage paint all the way through 1993 in some colors INCLUDING the much lusted after Cobras. I think when taken care of it is a great product. There is no clear to "go dead" after a couple yeaers or start peeling. Just maintain it and it will look and last equally well in my opinion.

[sowaxeman]

I use this same stuff, although OEM'd by them for another guy that sells his own brand of stuff. The yellow wet wax is GREAT on single stage paint.

[hawk232]

so today i did 1500, 2000 then 3000 grit then rubbing cmpnd, ultrfine cmpnd then polish. results are quite a bit better.

[hawk232]

as for the pads that i used, i used that pads that go with the compound i am using. #1 (white) rubbing compound with the #1 white pad, #3 (blue) ultrafine with the #3 blue pad. is that not the best way to do it?

I will check out the article linked above, since that saleen looks GREAT!!

this is definitely not the original paint...

[Jerry peachuer]

Correction on the meguiar kit
That was for marine (mostly water lines)

Meguiars SOLO KIT and finished with clay bar by mothers and 3m handglaze was what I used
The clay bar seemed to get rid of the swirl marks that the wheels missed on a black car and the hand glaze made it deep before the wax

This was all stuff left over other than the solo one kit which isn't aggressive compound it uses the different wheels for that

It worked well but there's far superior products as seen above

Your stuff with the butter wax looks amazing by the way

[ZephyrEFI]

Meguiars SOLO KIT and finished with clay bar by mothers and 3m handglaze was what I used
The clay bar seemed to get rid of the swirl marks that the wheels missed on a black car and the hand glaze made it deep before the wax

This was all stuff left over other than the solo one kit which isn't aggressive compound it uses the different wheels for that

It worked well but there's far superior products as seen above

Your stuff with the butter wax looks amazing by the way

I don't know. I'm no expert, but I've just always seen Mike what's-his-face from Auto Geek use orange pads with compound. White pads with polish, black pads with wax.

[sowaxeman]

Agree....Orange Cutting pads work well with Compound if swirl & scratch correction is needed. White pads are good for a secondary compound step if needed, then another white with Polish. After that a Black finishing pad with polish or glaze (I've always used the Megs #7) and then wax to top it off.

[homer302]

so today i did 1500, 2000 then 3000 grit then rubbing cmpnd, ultrfine cmpnd then polish. results are quite a bit better.

Results are INDEED much better. Very nice indeed. That is the way I did it and I think yours looks terrific. I hope you are proud.

[erratic50]

Before I had my black 86 repainted as base coat clear coat I did many of the ideas listed with disapointing results. The paint had gotten too thin and some of the swirl I thought I could see upon closer inspection was actually primer!

My dad reached for a black oil based pigment used to dye leather and it covered remarkably well with a deep luster. It deepened when applied with a buffer at low RPM and once it dried it took wax quite well.

years later a product called color magic came out that contained many of the same chemicals plus wax all in one. Top coated with more wax yields surprisingly deep swirl free results. And it works just fine with clear coat too as long as the clear isn't lifting.

just avoid dish soaps and non-auto soaps when cleaning it as this takes all the layers wax with your hard work back off.