2.8V6 American - European changes

[wilsst]

Hi quite a newbie on here, can anyone point me in the direction of a source of information on what Ford changed on the engines supplied by Cologne. Living as I do so close to Germany I thought a Mustang with the 2.8 V6 installed will be easy to get spares for.... wrong!

The two items which stand out at the moment is the distributor - US - Motorcraft, EU - Bosch and the carb which is not a weber on mine. I even had to source a new air filter and a set of spark plugs from the US as my ex Ford dealer in Germany was unable to source these items. He was also a bit grumpy! and even got a tad angry when I asked if he could find out any info on the engine, hence the "ex" a real Mr. Helpful!

over to you...

cheers Steve

[xctasy]

I'm away doing roading related work.



There were Lots of changes.

The US V6 engie had a Z VIN codep; These engines had three Bhp ratings, See Item 8 below.

I've got a US 2.8, had it in my Cortina.

Only thing was the pistons and Cam spec, Steve Pruet and Pat Ganahrl haven't listed the actual variances, so I assume they stayed the same with a flatop solid skirt piston and 264 degree cam, same as the Cortina. Sieera, Granada 2.3 V6 from 1974 to 1985.

My ex 1977 US Mustang II engine has the same pistons as the European Capri 2.8 135 Bhp 2-BBL and 150 or 160 Bhp Injection

The E code casting 73TM6015AA blocks were all the same untill the 1983 Aerostar and Ranger/BroncoII changes,

Everything above the block of the US 2.8 was different to the EU version in detail.

Depending on the year, the 1977-1987 had the Weber 38 DGAS or 35 Solex 2-bbl carb. Engines were rated as 135 Bhp DIN Net for all those years, but Electronic Bosch Ignition diddn't appear on European cars till 1980.

The US engines combined Emissions, single exhaust, compression ratio, static idle and total igntion and carb downgrades resulted in a drastic and deep loss in power by as much as 47% or 43 Bhp or as little as 24% and 26 Bhp.

The European engine with its close ratio 4 speed gearbox could always drop mid 16.5 second 1/4 miles in the 2800 pound Capri and 17 seconds flat in the 3000 pound Granada Mark II's, but in the Pinto, Capri, and Mustang II and Fox Mustangs and Capris, it was hard pressed to break 18.4 seconds with a C3 auto. 4-speed Fox Capris and Mustangs were the quickest fastest of al the US 2.8 1974-1979's as Ford had done a lot of work on the induction package, by upgradig it back to a 300 cfm simultanoues 2-bbl.





Item 1 : The European V6's had the V4 siamese exhaust ports





The US 2.8 head was effectively a V4 1.7 dual port head with an extra set of intakes per side. BIG difference...





The European head had even intake port spacings, the US 2.8 had the offest ones below.



They ended up with three port exhaust heads instead of the siamesed 2.0/2.3/2.6/2.8 and European 1977-1987 heads which always used the V4 Saab/Taunus twin out let exhaust. On the European 1.8/2.0/2.3/2.6 and 2.8 V6, they were partly siamesed, like the V4's.

The compression ratio with the US 2.8 three port outlet head was 8.2:1, down from approx 9.2:1 on the European 2.8's.


The heads were different as the US requested dual outlets instead of siamesd ports. It wasn't too hard to do, Saab had been doing it on its racing 1.7 Llter race V4's since the early 70's.






The US 2.8 intake manifold port spacings varied from the earlier Capri 2.6 as well.


The intake port spacing changes were in relation to where Ford Germany was eventually planning to going with the 2.9 head in 1987. The US 2.8 was clearly done as a planned new emission engine.

the 09/70 to 12/73 gasket intake manifold V6 2,6i 150HP RS 2600




INLET/INTAKE MANIFOLD GASKET FORD CAPRI 2.3 2.8/Ford Capri 2.8 Injection IM142




The US 2.8 intake was different



Ford US had a pick of unleaded heads; the 2.6 carb based twin outlet V4 manifolded 2.3 'B' or 'F' and 2.8 'D' or 'E' heads were used on some European P100/Scorpio/Granada/Sierra/ Capri cars untill 1987. The 2.8 US changes were made after access to the 2.6 Mechanical Injection RS 2600 had gotten Weslake heads.

The non siamese exhaust ports were just a minor casting variation done by many on the 1.5 and 1.7 V4 Taunus and Saab 96 engines

,






Item 2: . a 90 degree "Right Angle" intake adaptor on some versions, and a US Holley Weber 5200 carb, and a new intake manifold.


Item 3: Duraspark and Duraspark II igntion

Item 4: Same European Cam timing on the US 2.8.

Stock Cologne V6 of the 1.8/2.0/2.3 and later 1985 2.4 EFI were 264 to 268 duration and 380 thou lift cam engines, while the Saab V4 had 283 degrees duration and 380 thou lift. The 2.8 was halfway in between, but its a LOT of duration.

1972-1974 2.6 and 1974-1989 2.8 and 2.9 EFI's were 276 degrees intake /278 degrees exhaust with 388 thou intake lift and 382 thou exhaust lift

http://www.cosworth.hu/content/haszn...%20engines.pdf


Camshaft specs were a lot like the Cologne Pinto 2000 and 280E Mercedes Benz engines:

Solid lifters, huge duration, low lift with low rocker ratios, and they worked just horriably with Standard gas with an 8.2:1 compression ratio when designed for Super gasoline and 9.2:1 compression.


An example. The US 280E lost 38 to 52% of its power just by the compression ratio drop required to run 87 Octane and pass the NOx requirements verses the European engines. Exactly the same with the 2.0 Pinto and 2.8 Cologne. That's a HUGE loss.

Aftermarket US cams had rip off Small Block Ford 255/302/351 intake lobe profiles of 244, 256, 264, 266, and 270 duration on the intakes, and gave better results than the stock 2.8 cams.

http://www.compcams.com/catalog/144_145.html


260 and 264 Racer Walsh cams were similar to Isky F4 260 degree/425 lift and F66 264/ 448 grinds. Better results with lesss duration, but more lift and 50 thou intensity.

http://www.racerwalsh.zoovy.com/prod...-RWA-6411.html
http://www.racerwalsh.zoovy.com/prod...-RWA-6412.html

The last Eight ( aftermarket cams cams don't go up on stock duration very much because Cologne cams are solid lifter, and need more lift and compression and lobe center to improve power, but low end torque is always missing

http://www.kentcams.com/images/manf-...amshaft-12.jpg




Item 5: Emissions gear. EGR, air pump, carb, TVS valves, all different.

Item 6: Front cover had minor changes to suit the air pump and power steering and air condtioning options common on some of the US engines

Item 7: The automatic transmission was always the same between US and EU Cologne V6's, it was downgraded to a Bordeux C3 Automatic from a pervious Borg Warner 35.


There was also the IIRC, RAD Four speed. In 1979 for Foxes, the US 4speed gearbox was updraded and changed to the three bolt shifter to replace the unreliable nylock folded metal retained shifter which often came off in the US Mercury 2.0, 2.3 I4, 2.6 and 2.8 V6 Capris.

The us 4speed ratios had wide ratio spreads, and the 4 cylinder bearing and mainshaft set. For a few years, the 2.5 or 3.0 Essex V6 was used in the English and some German Granada Mark I'S from 1973 to 1977 with US C4, or the German and US market Hummer gearbox.


Item 8: 92 or 93 Bhp Bhp SAE Netin the Pintos. Some Mustang II and some Mercury Capri's were rated at 104 hp. The Pinto and Mustang II exhaust was much more restrictive than the Fox Mustang/ Capri exhaust.

For 1978, to 1979, there was a 104 Bhp rating with the Califonia spec Motorcraft VV2700 Variable Venturi

One other quote was 109 Bhp SAE Net with the 49 States Motorcraft 2150 carbed engine, also found on the 1977 model Mercury Capri II.

[xctasy]

See

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ebuild-options

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...tang-2-8-Build

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-8-Bellhousing



The the stock 1977-1985 135 hp V6 in the German, English and non US export markets, such as this Turkish Granada, has dual out let, 5 port heads and a specific intake manifold with a Bosch electronic ignition.








Your US 2.8 engine is better in every way, ignition, exhaust, head design, and the later 2700 VV or 2150 MotorCraft carburation.


Here is how they difffered:-


The Weber DGAS 38 gave carb Granada a huge amount of top end power. The US 2.8 with its US 2150 2-BBL probably could have out shined a 302 2-BBL if Ford USA weren't careful

Your 2150 Motorcraft 2-bbl will eclipse it in every way with a few simple mods.


An Early 1977 Euroean 2.3 intake, same as US 2.6. Solex 35 2-bbl carb, simultanoues opening.



My 1982 Cortina 2.3 with LPG, Turbo and stock Bosch electronic igntion. A stock 2.3 had 5 hp more than the best US 2.8 2-bbl Carb Z code 2.8. They lost a lot of performance.




Your Z code 2.8 has a lot of different power steering, alternator, header and hose and EGR/ TVS/ emissions differences.

[wilsst]

WOW!! now that is what I call an answer, xtcasy you are a star!!

Cheers
Steve

[xctasy]

You only need more compression to gain the power the US 2.8 lost. Its crazy hi duration cam was good for 160 hp in the 2.8 Injection. Its reported compression is 8.7:1, but I know its lower stock.

The 2150 Motocraft carb is what its likely to have now, its basically a 5.0 2-bbl carb. The 3.08 geard C3 takes a lot of power away, although it does have the Cortina 2.3 V6 stall ratio, which is quite loose and helps things. Basically, even a Taunus 2.3 for 1979 had 108 hp, and the European 150 and 160 hp Injection engines were held back by the Bosch K jetronic,,,,you'd probably get more than 160 hp if the US 2150 carb was bolted on to a stock European 135 hp engine with its 29 mm chocke 38 DGAS carb. The 2150 was 1.08 (27.4 mm), 1.14 (29 mm), or 1.21 (30.7 mm) and matched or improved on the 38 Weber flow figures.

Taking it back to 9.2:1 or more by welding up the chambers to 2.3 sizes while using the oversized 2.0 Pinto RS 2000 Power Pac intake and exhaust Valves trimmed down 30 thou on the valve stem height will fit your existing cylinder heads. You can go up to 12:1 with mig or Eutectic Arc welded chambers, which allow a higher compression ratio without any other modifications.


The stock pistons are solid skirt Mahale, the finest solid skirt cast alloy pistons you can get, and they are designed for 6600 rpm rev limits with the ring clearances you have. The common TRW alloy timing gear set is a suggested upgrade, the fibre stock timing gear can survive just fine, but sometimes the nylon wears and you get a potential problem if the engine is leaned on heavily. Ford US changed the set up in the late 80's due to stripping in the mid western cold zones, but the aftermaket gear set for US 2800's is very good.

A 3 angle blended valve cut, and a slight clean up of the intake and exhaust ports your good to go.


Another great option is the cam, head and valve mods suggested by Ethyl Cat below. The CFM figures indicate the Ford probably would have benifited from a split duration camshaft like the 5.0 and 5.8 engines.

Do you have the VV 2700 OR 2150 Motorcraft 2-bbl carb?

If so, you can run anti detonation fluid, a 50/47/3 mix of water, methonol and Acetone via the dual advance line to the carb.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html




I repurposed an old Morey's upper cylinder head lubricant bottle and a Rochester 2CG 370 cfm carb base (same flow as the 1982 5.0 GT Mustang carb) for my LPG Turbo engine so I could run 9 pouns boost on a 9.2:1 compression 2.3 engine.


You can go up on cam to the European aftermarket 114 lobe center cam, and put in the 1985 A4LD gearbox with the Ford factory 1982 onwards VV7200 TPS unit.

That way, everything will be esentially stock except the transmission.

I sent a PM to SuperDuty455 on the 6.75 axle.

The 6.75" axle you have has an optional 3.45 ratio from 1979 to 1988 4 cylinder 2.3's and some 2.0 and 2.3 Ford Ranger trucks. Its an odd axle, dating back in part to a 1958 pickup axle used on 223 I6 , then for a few years on Round Body 60-62 Falcons, then all 69-80 4 cylinder Pinto's, some 74-78 Mustang II'S. By the time your Fox got it, it had gained extra axle shaft splines and a longer pinion shaft.

The 24 spline Sterling axle doesn't have a Limited Slip Differential, but its quite reasonable, equal to, say, a Volvo Dana 30 axle based on the Maximum Opertating Torque (MOT) and Constant Operating Torque (COT) loads.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-end-questions.
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ock-diff-Gears
Post #34 on https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=71382
The Sterling 6.7 has Dana 30 7.12" style 24 spline axles
See http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/tr...#ixzz3au6uHRjW

With a Scorpio 0.75 over drive, your car would be awesome with 3.45 axle gears.



KM/H per 1000 RPMS 45.6 in top, at 4700 rpm, 212 km/h.
34.2 in 3rd gear. At 6200 rpm, 212 km/h.


Foxes have very little frontal area, and even with a .46 drag factor, a good 160 hp plus car can do those kind of 132 mph speeds.




You wouldn't have any problem getting 160 hp out of it with the right cam, compression and very mild internal head work. Your stock exhaust system is quite resonable.

In terms of performance gain, you'd be up in top that 130 mph plus mark, high 15's or low 16's on the Standing 402 meters, and 0-100 km/h in about 8 seconds with the stock engine block.

Post #88
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-options/page4

See the two posts below. I trust an engine builder and tuner with lots of engine analysing experience.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-options/page2

Not anything near EASY, but this thread got me thinking what I would do if I were to build one of these engines on a realtively tight $$ budget. Sooo, after about 5 hrs of research tonight(hard to find info on these things) this is what I have. Maybe someone will be interested maybe not.

1. Bore to 3.680 and install Ford 255(4.2L) v8 pistons. You have to bore the pin bores out to fit the .945 pin but you gain something valuable.
a. From what I can find the 2.8 piston is .060 in the hole creating a ground pounding 8.7:1 compression ratio. Piston compression height is 1.535. The 4.2 piston has a compression height of 1.585, placing the top a mere .009" from the deck. This raises compression to 9.5:1. Yah!

2. Next I would source some Toyota 3TC intake valves to gain a little cross section to spin about 6500 rpm size= 1.615". most likely would run 22r retainers and locks.
The exhaust looks to be a 4.0 v-6 ford piece 1.358" in diameter and will run stock locks and retainers. Valve springs for both applications are very similar with the 22r spring getting the nod(better pressures at the same installed heights) if the Ford head will accept a slightly smaller spring ID. Otherwise I'm sure there are drop in performance springs for both.

3. After the valve job, port work would be performed to increase airflow.

4. Contrary to popular belief, I would run headers, but of my own design, keeping primary pipes small and relatively long (30+inches) with a 2.125-2.250" collector

5.Flow numbers are really hard to come by for these engines (so far) so a cam is tricky right now.Preliminary thoughts are 270/280 230/230 .472/.450 net lift 110lsa 102 ICL STICK SHIFT ONLY. This cam will not work too well without a stall converter in your C3. Automatics would get a different profile.

This cam has better low rpm cylinder pressure potential than the larger of the 3 comps and more exh seat to seat due to the TERRIBLE exhaust ports
55 degrees overlap should be ok for power brakes (close).

My intake lobe seems bigger than the biggest of the Comps until you see that the advertised duration is at .020" valve lift. This one is at .006"

6. Not sure about induction. I have never seen an intake yet. My first instinct would be a 500 Holley 2bbl though.

Well there it is, my hypothetical 2.8 engine. Doesn't it sound nice? I am sure it will make 250hp here on the internet!

The numbers add up , but I have never built one of these engines. ( I would though!!)

Also OP there are some pretty good grinds for your engine at http://catalog.elginind.com/app/Engi...gh+Performance

They can be had for less than the Comp stuff as well.

Now I can sleep!

Steve

Do not remember if this was an auto or stick, or whether you had taken measures to increase compression, but I would not run a 276 duration cam in that engine if it is pertaining to the intake lobe. The exhaust is a different story.

I did give more of a race type cam example in an earlier post that had 270 on the intake, but I do not think you are in that realm of operation with this project.

I would recommend something like a 254/276 224/230 .480/.390 on a 109 +7

Should pull hard to 5000 or so and have about 200lb/ft just off idle

The intake was redesigned by Ford Germany to suit

the 5200 and
later Variable Venturi2700 and
Motor craft 2150 series carb,

the stock Cologne pistons are bomb proof, practically race spec from the factory, but the cam was just a typical German AutoBahn profile that din't like the compression loss. The later long stroke German Colgne pushrod 1990 to 2001 4.0 roller cam profiles were copied for the 1995 Explorer 5.0.

The hotter 4.0 OHV Explorer and Ranger cams were just the 1985 onwards HO 5.0 letter cams. The ages old 351 W and 351 W Marine cam profiles also work on the little 2.8 as well.

The advice above follows what Ford USA and Ford Germany ended up doing with the 4.0 cams, and seams perfect.

Oh yeah, and with just a little work, the Cologne Explorer 4.0 crank fits the 2.8 block with Mahale AU-FG Falcon 4.0 pistons and stock Cologne 5.14 rods for a potential 3488 cm3 machine that no one would suspect of being a 200 hp, 250 lb-ft engine.

I planned one of those back in 2001 for my 1982 TF 2.3 Taunus/Cortina , and it was a standard PowerMax 1995 to 2005 engine upgrade for the XR4X4 and XR4i 2.8 European Sierras.

The basic bare bones of the V4 and V6 was minted in the unsucessful first years of the second German Ford deiesl engine, the 1956 Ford FK truck Ford Cologne 2-stroke Diesels.





A revolutionary design, they suffered electrolysis and noraml Two stroke diesel isses, based on an Austrian 90 degree V4 and V6 design, with primary engineering by Prof. List (AVL) for the Austrian truck brand "Gräf & Stift".

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t....729727/page-2






Ford were unable to make the two stroke diesel work within the time frames, and after warrantiy issues, they replaced the diesels with Ford Mercury 239's and the later Ford of Britain truck engines.

The gasoline Cologne V4 and V6's were designed around the old 2 stroke supercharged V6 bore spacings, although the transfer lines adpoted a 60 degree bank by the time the 12M Taunus and 1.5 Liter Mustang II and planned US Cardinal got the V4 gasoline version in 1962.

Started off 12M 1.2 litre: 1183 cc, then added two cylinder to become a 1812 cc, 1998 cc,: 2293 cc, or 2550 cc V6 in the 20M/26M Taunus. A hangover from the locked in transfer line for the V4 and V6 diesel engines was that they were designed around a linered alloy head with a 92 mm cylinder bore and 105 mm stroke. The cast iron Cologne V4 and V6 copied the bore 4.78" center spacings. It may have been 4.76", I'll have to cehck my records, but its bore centers are HUGE.


Thats almost the same as a 928/944/968 Porsche, 450 SEL 6.9 Benz and Chrysler Hemi 426 style 4.80" bore centers, so the iron 60 degree block was just a massively well spaced out block with heaps of strength and capacity potential.



The first Cologne two stroke 90 degree V6 was actually a 4189 cc engine