Stock 1992 T-5 durability

[Dr. Matt]

I have an opportunity to swap the 1992 5.0 in my '79 Fairmont for a 351W that makes about 400-450 HP. The long term plan will include a C-6 with a GV OD or a built AOD, but for now the car has a T-5. Just wondering what the odds are I can run the T-5 for a while and do a little drag racing with it or if it's going to explode the first time I shift it hard.

If you have run one with similar power how did it hold up? What kind of times (ET/mph) have you run at the track with a stock T-5? Are a pair of sticky drag radials guaranteed to destroy it right away with the kind of power I'm talking about?

Long term plans are to build this into a reliable street/strip/bracket race car. Plan is to run around 10.0x's with the car while still keeping it streetable. Should be able to get high 11's with the 351, actually it's a 408, and a pair of drag radials in the short term. I don't want to step up to the 10 point cage, and our local track requires a diaper for cars running 9.99 or quicker, so I don't plan to push beyond 10.0's.

[xctasy]

To learn the principals of levers and mechanical empathy, talk to a weight lifter. A T5 will break behind a stroked 351W because its not a Liberty cut TopLoader, Fords strongest ever transmission. The Word Class T5 is a heavily revamped Single rail with compact layshaft centers and gear stack. To improve its tear out strength, postive stops and then better metelurgy is requied, but your still pushing physiscs.


I once got taught about back care by a 4 ft 9" world champion weight lifter, Precious Mckenzie, while working at a Gold Mine in New Zealand in 1993. He said

"if you want to learn how to do something right without stress, look at a child. We un learn everything as we get older. The way a todler gets down on the ground, and kneels on one or both knees, and lifts up a rattle off the ground is how we should too". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precious_McKenzie

In a similar manner, and because mmb617 is a lso a weight lifter with superb mechanical empathy, take this advice...


http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-on-a-stock-T5

I've always run a stock T5 and race the car every Friday night. My best so far is 11.7 @ 118 mph. I don't power shift. I run ET street bias ply tires and launch at 3100-3500 depending on how the hook is at the track. My best 60's are low 1.6's.

The first T5 lasted exactly 200 passes then broke the input. I rebuilt it but didn't know as much about them as I do now and probably didn't shim it as tight as I should have. I also wasn't running an aftermarket cluster support plate, just using the stamped steel factory POS.

I ran another 155 passes on it then broke 3rd gear. By then I'd already bought a spare (stock) T5 and rebuilt it right,shimmed tight and with the good cluster support plate so I put that one in. So far it has 55 passes on it and is working great.

Since I can't afford an A5 I just keep fixing the T5's when they break so I always have a spare. I can switch them out pretty fast now so I never have to miss a weeks racing over a broken transmission.

[Dr. Matt]

Thanks. So it might survive for a while even dipping into the 11's. Good to know.

Low 1.6 60' times are not bad for a car running 118 mph trap speeds. I'd be happy to make a few passes like that.

Going to get some practice with the clutch first. Engagement is high in the pedal swing so I caught myself doing some unplanned power shifting already. The little, low grip 235/60-14's have no problem spinning in first or second and barked a few times in third thanks to my early return to WOT on that shift a few times too.

I'm so used to running an automatic Ive missed how much fun it is to shift so I don't want to yank the 5 speed right away.

[xctasy]

Prospects of it surviving are very good if you do a little networking.


https://fordsix.com//viewtopic.php?f=76&t=73629

Read this to make the T-5 stronger (500 ft-lb capable):

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/12/T5Rebuild/

The three provisos are:

1. The Shifter must not over shoot.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-throw-shifter

Thought i would check out these Core shifters since they are all the rage lately. Since i have actually been inside of t5s and tr3550s i can tell you this:



is a load of bs. That's off of their website. I have been inside of t5s and tr3550s/tko transmissions. You're hooked up to cast aluminum shift forks in a t5 and 3550/tkos. If you decide to shift it like a man with a shifter that doesn't have stops, you are exerting that force onto the shift fork which gets stopped by the synchro assembly which is trying to move further than it needs to. Then you get to take out your transmission that's stuck in gear and replace the broken shift fork because they lied to you or don't know what they're talking about. A cast aluminum shift fork might still break because it's a P.O.S. by design, but with shifter stops you're preventing failure by the #1 cause. The rubber isolator on the stock handle is a half-assed solution to the problem on that cheap piece.

Looks like MGW, Steeda, Pro 5.0, and Hurst are still the best options. If you bought one of these Core shifters, don't slam the gears with it. The $40 ebay shifter even has stops on it...

Cale

See http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-shifter/page3
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...-on-a-stock-T5
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...er-Shifter-Arm


2. The internals:- rear bearing retainer, mainshaft, gears, output shaft, have to be shimmed up right, and improved in synchro and dog-ring quality. Aftermarket stuff has better metal quality, thicker gears, special surface finishing that the stock BW T5 cant match.

3. After all that, there is a special case too hold it all together...

4th is if rebuilt, its gotta be done right. TREMEC's torque transfer componentry book is perfect bed pal...http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...-0510-0199.pdf

5th At a personal level, the gearing spaces should emulate the 60's SBF Muscle car ratios, Ford was screwed over by CAFE MPG averages and the FMV emissions cycle, so I always recomend the T10/ Wide or Close ratio Toploader V8 ratios, with a shallower top.


Wrong ratios make wheelspin and gear changing angst...

The G Force standard gear is a crazy 0.59:1 5th

Recomended Option 1
http://www.jegs.com/i/G-Force-Transm...ductId=1343713
G-Force Transmissions GFT5242-93S
Synchronized T5 Gear Kit 87-93 Ford Mustang
G-Force Transmissions GFT5242-93S
Part Number: 468-GFT5242-93S
Synchronized T5 Gear Kit
87-93 Ford Mustang
Ist 2.42, 8.47:1 over all, mph per 1000 RPM = 8.7
2nd 1.53, 5.36:1 over all, mph per 1000 RPM = 13.8
3 rd 1.23, 4.31:1 over all, mph per 1000 RPM = 17.1
4 th 1.00 gear ratios, mph per 1000 RPM =21.04
Comes with 0.59:1 5th; Use Sebring
5 th 0.80:1, 2.8:1 over all, mph per 1000 RPM = 26.3
Use 3.5:1 axle ratio (final drive in 1:1 4th). Similar to using 3.55's
Gearing with Tires loaded 628.8 mm tall (24.76")
Unloaded static dimensions 642.6 mm tall (25.30")

At 5500rpm change up, 48, 76, 94 mph, 116 mph and 145 mph

That top wack which requires 225 flywheel hp net with a 0.40 drag factor Mustang with 20 sq feet of frontal area.


Recomended Option 2
http://www.jegs.com/i/G-Force-Transm...5-93S/10002/-1
G-Force Transmissions GFT5295-93S
Synchronized T5 Gear Kit 87-93 Ford Mustang
G-Force Transmissions GFT5295-93S
Part Number: 468-GFT5295-93S
Synchronized T5 Gear Kit
87-93 Ford Mustang
2.94, 1.94, 1.34, 1.00 gear ratios

Ist 2.95, 11.00:1 over all, mph per 1000 RPM = 6.7
2nd 1.94, 7.24:1 over all, mph per 1000 RPM = 10.2
3 rd 1.34, 5.00:1 over all, mph per 1000 RPM = 14.7
4 th 1.00 gear ratios, mph per 1000 RPM =19.74
Comes with 0.59:1 5th; Use Stock Mustang Fox
5 th 0.72:1, 2.69:1 over all, mph per 1000 RPM = 27.4
Use 3.73:1 axle ratio (final drive in 1:1 4th). Similar to using 3.70's
Gearing with Tires loaded 628.8 mm tall (24.76")
Unloaded static dimensions 642.6 mm tall (25.30")

At 5500rpm change up, 37, 56, 81 mph, 109 mph , but 144 mph at 5250 rpm

That top wack which requires 225 flywheel hp net at exactly 5250 with a 0.40 drag factor Mustang with 20 sq feet of frontal area.

[Dr. Matt]

Wow, lots of great info there. Thanks xctasy!

[mmb617]

Geez I feel kind of famous having been quoted in one of xctasy's posts!

So you knew Precious Mckenzie? I remember that name being all over the powerlifting scene back when. I believe he was on the cover of PLUSA a time or two.

Now back to T5's.

See my avatar pic? That's with a stock T5. You can hook hard without breaking them.

I'll add my two cents to the excellent advice you've already given. I ran the brackets for 7 years with a 408 and stock T5's. I made 691 passes with very few transmission failures once I figured out a few things. The important points in my opinion are:

Shim them tight.

Run an aftermarket cluster support plate

Use genuine tremec parts

Don't powershift it! No stock T5 will last long behind a 408 if you insist on full power shifts. I always let up on the shifts. It costs a little time, but that doesn't really matter in bracket racing.

If you are looking for low 10's, then a stock T5 isn't going to cut it, but I can vouch for one being good for mid 11's.

I'm now retired from racing and still have the same motor in the car. I just putt putt around town in it now and don't expect I'll ever break the transmission again.

[xctasy]

PM does back care. I lump you both in the same catagory, as you are still lifting stuff, and don't break stuff. And I don't understand why, except for the training, and the advantages of size. So looking after a T5 is no different to looking after your L5 (5th lumbar vertebra).

http://www.preciousmckenzie.co.nz/seminars.htm


I was amazed by him early 1993 at Macraes Gold Mine in East Otago.




I built and tested, with Doug Hood Limited, the biggest dam crest to crest in the Southern Hemisphere (IIRC, 3 mileS), the Flotation Tailings Dam.

We had a budget cut, where the gold price dropped below 300 US per ounce, and 130 people had to do an other 50% more work, so the Top Brass were REAL worried about back issues, and accidents, so they employed a nurse, and she got Precious Mckenzie along to school the big six footers (like me!) on how to lift right. That's when he made the little toddler quip. What a funny guy! As a student, we used to do horse play all the time, like four of us could bounce lift a 1860 pound locked Mitsubishi Mirage (Dodge Colt 1600) around in a car park by the wheel arches to pi%% off our next door neighbours when we were having Student Parties, but 4 ft 9" and 1339 pounds total transfer in the 123 lb class. Man alive!

You weight lifter guys are just freakin animals...

Like all weight lifters, you guys are technical dynamos, and of course, the smaller, and more bottle jack like you are, the more excellent your technique. Well, thats my experience. And you just get more cunning with age!

With only 4 million Kiwis, hanging out with famous people is a lot of fun.

PM is my alltime favorite.