AOD swap?

[cb650]

Will a 4cy AOD bolt to a 255? I have a parts car with a AOD in it. Would be nice to have OD in Lyns car.

[FoxChassis]

AOD was not ever behind the 2.3L engine. The 1987-93 auto behind the 2.3L engine was an A4LD. It's not a very good one either.

[cb650]

ok sorry

[xctasy]

Well, actually, yes it will go on, but needs an alloy or mild steel adaptor plate, and the exact right earth and pinouts and 1982 on wards 0.8-1.0 volt to 4.5 volt TPS adaptor to make it all fit in. My esitmate of costs would be about *700 US$ if you were able to track down a rebuild kit, pump, and bellhousing,; if you got lucky with the 2.3 trans, about 350 bucks.

Theres a right bower, left bower approach. It depends on if the 2.3 bell housing makes the starter hit the block of not.

If you wanna use the 2.3 trans, you have a 135 teeth flexplate, and will need to drill a Cranfield or Stinger Performance 5.0--> 2.3 Lima/EOA adaptor. The little starter motor and 135 teeth flexplate mightn't fit the SBF V8...it might be too wide, but for 185 bucks, you can check it out, and if it fouls the block, then the 138 teeth 2.8/2.9/4.0 Cologne V6 bellhousing version Definately Does Fit.


If you are prepared to change the bellhousing to the 2.8/2.9 A4LD, then you can be certain everything will fit, but the swapping of the bellhousing on these transmissions is a little risky, as you HAVE to replace the seals and front pump. But its dooable for sure. New A4LD pump assemblies are not cheap, although they are bound to be around as NOS if you ask the right questions to the right people.

Thing is, the 2.9 A4LD is pretty common, and the 5 speed versions of it, downright "fall in yer lap for no money, take it off my hands for free!"

The C3/A4LD/ and millions of 55R5 with the crazy North, South, East and West suffix are fantastic little things...if they were the total turkeys others claim, FoMoCo wouldn't have invested the time, money, and liason with Ford of Europe making this liitle trans for 40 years.

Ford missmanaged the service protocols on ATF changes on thses, and destroyed most of them trying to do routine dealer services. They also have running wire changes and ECM shift changes every year, and typical of all Ford electrics and electronics, the whole shift wiring protocols changed year by year, and earth and ground differences make even the best transmission gurus give up on them. But the pinouts are known, and there use in 8000 GVW Transits in Europe fairly well proves that even the lowly A4LD is a stout bit of kit. The English and Europeans didn't have half the prblems with it that the US customers did, and that was because the TSB for fluid change condoned removing and rebleeding ATF...more of that below. The best way to kill an auto is froth up the ATF....





The trans is an uprated C3, which is made to take the Cologne V6 bellhousing, and there is a Windsor 5.0 Pushrod to Cologne adaptor.

See the Luiz Camilo adaptor link below. Its a bit of an act getting to it, click on "Giulia Brasileira - Luis' 1974 Alfa Romeo GTV V8" on the side bar

http://www.rickwrench.com/index79.htm


Rick Wrench from Ford Six Performance has a close friend from Brazil who makes the adaptor to fit 302/5.0 Pushrod Winsors into Alfa Romeo GTVs, Spiders and Fiats.





See 7th and 8th picture down in this link

Thats the adaptor and IIRC rightly, the M5od Toyo Kogyo 5 speed (or whatever the Cologn 4 Liter V6 Ranger/Explorer manual gearbox was for whatever year, there were Mitsubishi and other stick shifts, but what was done on the bellhousing adaptor fits the A4LD as well)

Its really freekin' compact, and takes the standard 1974-1996 Capri/Mustangii/ Fox/ Ranger Aerostar/ Explorer 138 flexplate or flywheel.

The 138 flexplate or flywheel has to be redrilled to the 6 bolt 3" pitch centre spacing, and just needs the right 28 or 50 oz Detriot unbalance weight riveted on to ensure it suits whatever factor your 4.2 has on it.


So its smaller than the notably small Mustang II 5.0 C4 bellhousing, so theres space to use the low mount drivers side Explorer starter.



The C3 3 -speed auto is a The French Bordeux auto, and was first used behind 1300 Escort Kent engines in the Ford Of Europe auto optioned rear drivers in 1973 (Capri, Taunus, Granada, Cortina, Transit) and as a result of that, used as an option in 2 liter Pintos, Cortinas, Escorts,

It was upgrded to 4 and 5 speed over drive, then a one peice case, then totally re-engineered in 2001 for the Explorer/US Ranger, and lastly, became the base trans for the 2008 to 2010 FG Falcons. E's were split case, N's were for Jag and premium group Linc;s, W's were wide ratio SUV normally, S's were close ratio S197 Mustang

The A4LD was a bit of a missuhnderstood dog from its European debut 1984, then its 1985 to 1996 USA use when shoved behind really boosted up 2.3 turbos and in SUV's 4.0 liter V6's, then it got upgraded with really tough parts.


In 1985, it got over drive, lock up clutch and electronic control, used beind the Mekur and Thunderbird 2.3 Turbo engines, then a 5 th speed in 1995, then an ackward point for engine sawps, heavy duty one piece case with a range of more fitting, better spaced ratios in 2001. It was able to take, as a 3 speed, about 160 lb-ft was it from 1974 to 1990 behind those engines. The 2.8 Capri Injection engined Euro Granda and the Fox body 3.3's were all true 160 lb-ft tow cars, and they didn't have many problems doing 100 000 miles but rebuilts are dicey as the bolted on front pump requires very specific set up, and even removing and replacing an early split case bellhousing will surely kill it dead.

The ill-fated Carb Turbo 2.3 had it as a non official option option for a year (1981), but it was not up to the 175 hp SVO engine in the Merkur or Thunderbird Turbo coupe.

When the 4.0 came out in the Explorer, it was upgraded to a true 200 lb-ft trans, and the 240 lb-ft SOHC 4.0 in 1997, and then a strong over 300 lb-ft V8 from 2001 on wards. But it didn't like those engines poor low end torque, high tow loads of those vehicles...it had a Ford TSB oput on it that effectively would kill the transmission if the ATF Fluid was flushed, as that aerated the fluid, and was not renown as being bomb proof Ford trans like the C4, C5, C6 or FMX or even AOD. Although it has faults, it certainly is a very good transmission.

Standard in the auto Mustang II, Pinto, Fox body 2.3 , 2.8 and 3.3, then, like the German Cologne V6, which was the main Ranger and Explorer engine from 1984 to 2011. 60% of these have the French gearbox behind its European derived Pinto, Lima and Cologne engines.


You can just redrill a 185 dollar CANFIELD 2.3 TURBO SBF V8 ADAPTOR.

The 138 teeth Colgne V6 has its starter in a different position, and its bellhousing a little bit bigger, but once you've gotten it on center a 135 teeth 2.3 A4LD will mate up to the 255 just like this below.


There is the http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...r-should-it-go

Stinger Performance has a adapter for a 2.3 bolt pattern to a sbf bolt patter, and all you need is your small A4LD bellhousing and a flexplate drilled to a 5.0 pushrod bolt pattern and then you can run whatever stall that the flexplate allows.


With 3.73's and a 0.75:1 top, overall top would be like running a 2.79:1 axle, which is basically the same as the 1982 2.73 axle, and you've got the gettaway gears.


I'd do it. Its so darn simple to sandwhich the stuff together. I think the 2.3 four cylinder flexplate will allow the starter to come out enough to clear and fit the SBF block pattern. The old Yamaha 3.0 V6 and 3.4 SHO V8's used the 2.3 Lima bellhousing pattern, so if it can cope with that its should be easy on your little V8.



http://web.archive.org/web/200303151...l/example.html

A4LD's cope with a high strung 3500 XR7 or Tbird turbo 2.3 Turbo EFI, an SUV 2.9 Ranger or 4.0 Explorer, so keeping everything stock would be easy. Just have to ask and engineer to copy the first moment of inertia for the 28 or 50oz wight, and re slot the the six bolt holes on the crank pilot.

I make one in New Zealand for my conversions, its about 65 bucks shipped. The US aluminum plate adaptor is basically the same as what I use; I use steel

.





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...e/DSC02330.jpg


*Edit 700 dollars, not 7000

[FoxChassis]

A4LD behind the turbo/non-turbo 2.3 was junk compared to the 4.0L. The 4.0L A4LD was a heavier-duty verison. Kind of like the 4R7x family V6 versions compared to the V8 versions.

[xctasy]

Good point.

The 4.0 was a much improved transmission that probably didn't deserve the same name plate. Evidence was the later 440 Newton Meter and 550 Newton meter (324, and 405 lb-ft maximum shock load rating the 4R44 and 5R55 names ment.)

The A4LD rebuild kits fix most of the problems.

Good new is the 4.2's 115 hp at 3800 rpm and 191 lb-ft at 2000 rpm isn't gonna easily break anything except perhaps a wet Klenex. 30 to 35 hp and 9 lb-ft less than the 1987 3379 pound Turbo Coupe A4LD.

And undertaxed.... at just and 2848lb is a massive 19% or 531 pounds lighter.

[Haystack]

Why not just get a cheap t-5 or aod?

Also, weren't alot of 255's the super high geared rear axle as well? Id think the rear end ratio mixed with a 3sp auto would give you nearly identicle rpm's to a regular 5.0 with an aod. My car is a 2.73:1 and with the aod .67 od ratio, im not sure id want to go any different. Im at about 1400 to 65 mph and about 1600 rpm's at 75.

[xctasy]

Why not just get a cheap t-5 or aod?

Also, weren't alot of 255's the super high geared rear axle as well? Id think the rear end ratio mixed with a 3sp auto would give you nearly identicle rpm's to a regular 5.0 with an aod. My car is a 2.73:1 and with the aod .67 od ratio, im not sure id want to go any different. Im at about 1400 to 65 mph and about 1600 rpm's at 75.

That's right. Highest geared non overdrive car ever was the old 255.

The 5.0 AOD's ran 2.73 times 0.67, or a 1.82 overall final drive!
The early C4 Fox 4.2 ran the 2.26 over all the tallest, which was taller than the highest 5.0 ratio (2.47 overall)!

The tallest 3.3 ran 2.47 axle or a four speed SROD with 2.49 over all (3.08*0.81)

Even the 5.7 liter 1984-1988 205 to 245 hp C4 Vettes with 7 speed's only pulled 3.07 axle gears with a Doug Nash 0.67 ratio.

For 2.06:1 overall.

So Fords 5.0 AOD wins the "Overgearing" award.

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...sis-Rear-Axles
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...ns-axle-combos

Like Jimbo302's

I have a 255 in my 1981 Mercury villager. Its a c4 car with a 2.26 geared rear end. It'll cruise 80mph all day long. So far I've gotten a best of about 23mpg out of a tank of fuel, all highway.
I've got an open air cleaner and a set of shorty headers, off road h, flowmaster 3 chambers, all 2 1/2" out tailpipes. Sounds way stouter than it is. Slow as dirt but a fun car.

The 4.2 also is a "Don't Fear the Gear" little engine that was from day one designed as a stump puller despite its short stroke engine.

They came out factory with 255 and AOD in some of the larger Foxes and Panthers with 3.08's and the 0.67 top, so even they can carry a crazy high 2.06:1 final drive. The tractor 244 degree cam allows the little engine to pull that kind of gearing, especially in a car 500 to 700 pounds lighter than the long wheelbase T birds, XR-7's and LTD's they were in that year. Even the F 100 trucks had them with 0.81 tops and 3.08 gears.

cb650 partner Lynns car is that 255 1981 blue hatch with 3.73 gears. So its needs at least a 0.61 over drive just to make the 2.26 over all the tallest a non AOD Fox V8's ran.

I'd personally grab a pre 2001 split case 5R55 and my Explorer with a 205 hp 4 liter loved 3.73's with 235/60 16's.

373's and an A4LD sounds just great. The 5 speed is just a A4LD with the over drive operation played around with to make another gear. A4LD's and all the other R's carry a shallower 0.75 top.

[xctasy]

Just an update.

For the 1988 A4LD Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, the 150 hp engine carried with it the same 3.73 axle ratio and Gear ratios (overall):


I ST 2.474:1 (9.23:1 overall, 8.3 mph per 1000 rpm)

2 ND 1.474:1 (5.50:1 overall, 13.9 mph per 1000 rpm)

3 RD 1.00:1 (3.73:1 overall 20.4 mph per 1000rpm)

4 TH 0.75:1 (2.80:1 overall 27.2 mph per 1000rpm)


65 mph is 2400 rpm in top, and 3200 rpm in 3rd.


It's overall top gearing with over drive should be 2.26, or 2.73 like it was in 1980, 1981, or 1982. With an A4LD, you'd really want some taller 3.08 gears




3.45 gears and an AOD are what you should look for, like this shining path example of 4bbl 132 MPH 4.2 liter Outomotive "Frankenstienery"




The whole reason I advocate the 4 cyl A4LD is that the bigger AOD normally came with the tight 1650 rpm stall coverter, not the later 2350 rpm HO 5.0 CFI and truck converter.

The Car and Driver 255 had a special over 270 degree cam and with the 4 speed overdrives tight (stock 5.0 2-bbl) converter, it just cut into off idle slippage that would launch the car like a real V8.

Even with a stock AOD 4.2, you probably still needed the early 1982-1984 3.8 AOD with the stock 2350 stall converter (stock 1650 is too tight for a little Vee Eight, but Ford made a factory 2350 stall converter for the1982 trucks and 3.8 V6's)

Its all about if you can come up with a better combination for less deniro.


With the benfit of the experiences from 1980 to date, I'd say the A4LD would be perfect if its fits, and if it breaks, then you'd just rebuid it or punt for an AOD.

With 1981's, you'll have to do crossmenber mods, but the A4LD should be an easy shoe in with


1. the Cranfield adaptor modified to suit,

2. and a machined crank spigot adaptor,

3. and sloted A4LD flexplate

4. with the V8 unbalance factor..


If you can do those things cheaply by getting people who know what they are doing, you'll most likely get a very good result with the 135 teeth flexplate and your stock trans.


The wiring and electronic transmission control depends on what car your A4LD was from; they varied as has been stated, but we had them on our 1985-1988 Ford Sierra's with the 1993 cc Pinto 102 2-bbl and 115 hp EFI engines; those transmissions are just ripped out, and the control units sit around in peoples garages. Since the trans is an import, there is total World Wide information on it if you ask.

From personal experience, its just the ignorance factors that might make it hard to do...people looking at the wrong 132 flexplates, and not understanding the EOA and Lima and Cologne V6 differences between the C3, A4LD, and the later 4R44and whatever. It gets complicated, but not too much if you just follow thru'.

Good fortune on your choices!

[xctasy]

cb650....Just confirmed today......its still some work, but the great news is that you can work backwards from a Canfield SBF to Lima/EAO adaptor in order to go A4LD sized trans. Stinger have stopped making there version, but Canfield Industries still do still do.

http://www.cididit.com/adaptor_plate.htm




Both are basically the same .

2.3 to SBF Bellhousing Adapter Plate
This billet aluminum plate converts any Ford 2.3L OHC engine to the small-block Ford bellhousing bolt pattern. This allows 2.3 owners to run the larger 5.0 Mustang clutch components, T-45, T-56, and other manual transmissions, as well as any of the automatic transmissions available for small block Fords. Adapter use in manual transmission applications will require the use of a zero balance small-block Ford flywheel with a 2.3 crank bolt pattern (also available). Includes all hardware shown, as well as an instruction sheet.
(No Longer Available)

That transfers the SBF Bellhousing and 157 teeth flywheel to a Lima 2.3 OHC 132 teeth flexplate (flywheel). You'd have to do a reverse adaptor. As you've seen above with the Brazilian SBF 5.0 to Cologne V6, your 4.2 V8 has more than enough room to go to the Ford 2.0/2.3 passenger side starter postion!.

The 4.2/5.0 to 4 cyl gearbox conversion, if you use the passenger side 2.3 starter, you can go down to 132 teeth even with a 4.2/5.0 with total ease.


The 2.3 is on a 2.75" pitch center for the six bolt crank flexplate flange. So it has to be slotted back to 3" bolt spacing like the multifit flywheels are

From a very good engine builder, merk from FEP,

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...BO-V-2-0-Build

.


Ford import and domestic four cylinder gearboxes range from light duty to mega tough....the 4 cyl A4LD bellhousing can be detached and matched to the 5R55's before the 2001 integrated bellhousing.


Generally, any French C3 based automtic, if it has a bellhousing change, then it requires a front pump change. A4LD, 4R44, 5R55, all of them. That's an expense, but Ford has repurchased the Bordeux plant, and is making parts avaiable agin for these transimssions. So they aren't a dead end Automatic Overdrive option anymore.


Just a note. For others stuck with SBF to 2,3 manual gearboxes, you can then use the SR4/T5 or even Rocket ET 78 4-speed/ RAN Tremec 140 5speed bellhousing. Any 2.3 or even Pinto 2.0 or possibly T9 5speed Merkur bellhousing will work. Or the Mitsubishi/ Toyo Kogyo's if the clutch fork gets in the way, but it won't. The T9's and ET78's are being given new parts supply from the British suppliers Burton and Quaife, and can be upgraded to close ratio and alloy case versions with torque capacity up to 250 lb-fts or more, with power to 300 hp easily.

Teh SR4 was always just Mustang II 137 HP/ 220 LB-FT levels, , BUT IT WILL TAKE BASIC 4.2/5.0 grade power, and a T5 generally goes where a SR4 goes, with a few cross memeber matters.

You would be going to this arrangment.







Most 4.2's were 28 oz balance, so you'd have to add an expensive curved section of heavy metal to make the same unbalance factor. Its still do-able.