Foxbody 200 straight six

[Redfairymont]

Hi what is needed to get a t5 behind a straight six. I have a t5. Not sure what bell to use.

[teddy1500]

It depends on the year. 1980 saw a change in bellowing bolt pattern, with a change of starter location. Prior to 1980, it was a high mount starter, after 1980, it was a low mount. IF I understand correctly, the low mount starter engines used a T4 transmission, the T5 bolts up.the high mount starter needs an adapter plate, which allows a 3.8 T5 to work.

[xctasy]

You need to read the whole bar mitzvah...


All the low mount BS is incorrect as there were concurrent highmount blocks made till 1983 model year, and they are more common than low mounts.
Its not helpfull to your desire to get a T5 behind a 3.3

1981-1983 Fox bodies were technically the only cars with big bell 200's. They commonly had the football cat exhaust with 4.5" outlet.



Check for the CJ232AB front rocker decal, should be gray colored rocker and block.



A low mount block will just get you horribly nerked up.

FEP info http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...nversion-PIC-s





http://www.fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=68761

http://www.fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=62531


Clutch Quadrant http://www.fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=61787

And RacinNdrummin, "loneobjectivist's" Fairmont, with D9 bellhousing and T5 swap

And Super4ords post on an E1 bellhousing for the T4 and his T5 swap







Don't use the later E1 6015 BB blocks. They aren't that common, and the information you've been given is widely circulated, and incorrect. I've tried to correct it many times.



There was never, and wasn't ever, a low mount manual 3.3 gearbox, and most 1981 to 1983 3.3's are non lockup clutch C3's. The exceptions are the odd 1980 to 1982 Cougars, XR7's and Thunderbirds with the "price saver" 3.3 delete option engine. They are generally low mount.

In June 1980 for the 1981 to 1983 model years, Ford added a special light powder blue colored block for some automatics only.


Specfically, a very big, 164 teeth flexplate, low mount engine block for lock-up clutch C4 and C5 auto's. Only about 30% of all remaining 1981 to 1983 model year Ford 3.3's had them.


In 1982, Ford removed the four speed manual option in 1982.

Therefore, to make a manual conversion, all you need is the manual 3.3/ 200 block with high mount engine blocks, same as the 1966 dual pattern block.

The Merkur T9 5 speed gearbox conversion with 2.77 bellhousing from 1964 to 1966

https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?t=34376

The D9 conversion SEE ABOVE in RacinNdrummin and Super4ords posts

The E1 bellhousing conversion SEE ABOVE in RacinNdrummin and Super4ords posts



So you can use any high mount bellhousing


the 2.77 bellhousing,
the 3.03 bell housing,
the ammended 1979 bellhousing, or
the last T4 bellhousing from 1981.

The Fox clutch action is easiest with the Fox D9 and E1 bellhousings, as they have the cable clutch.

Earlier bellhousings, like the pre Fox ones beforw 1978, are like the low mount blocks, they are likely to get you all nerked up. But you can do any thing you want.

Biggest issue is that all the 3.3 blocks has a six bolt 2.75" crank bolt PCD pattern, but the same SBF piolot of 1.375".


To make it easy on yourself, you have to use a 136 teeth 8.5 or 9" clutch.


If you were unfortunate enough to find a low mount block, you'd then have to get a blank 157 or 164 teeth neutral balance flywheel made up from a coomon 4.9/300 six on nutral balance SBF core, and that would scr|[ew you for costs and extra work.

In any case, the low mount 3.3 bellhousing is comparitively rare, and specfic only to 1981 to 1983 lock-up clutch automatic 3.3's.

[xctasy]

It depends on the year. 1980 saw a change in bellowing bolt pattern, with a change of starter location. Prior to 1980, it was a high mount starter, after 1980, it was a low mount. IF I understand correctly, the low mount starter engines used a T4 transmission, the T5 bolts up.the high mount starter needs an adapter plate, which allows a 3.8 T5 to work.

Its all good, just info. Its hard to be general with Fords.



To correct it:-


The 3.3 T4 gearbox only was ever used behind the high mount blocks.

All 3.3 manuals were only ever high mounts.

Its like Ford making a Mustang GT car
TFI, or Duraspark,
CFI or 4bbl , or
4.2 or 5.0

just depending on what transmission option type you tick.


You end up having general info that isn't really helpfull, but without it, your munted. So its all good!


Here is a post on how to convert a low mount 3.3 block to fit a SBF automatic, from Mike from FordSix.

It should be non relevant info, but plenty of people think that everything after 1981 to 1983 is low mount because of this post.



https://fordsix.com/archive/V8Bell.php

In 1980, Ford revised the castings of the 200 to incorporate a low mount starter. The bell housing pattern ended up as 2/3rd's of the small block V8 pattern. The top two bolts were placed differently due to the very short deck height of the 200 block. Mike Enren has taken one of these blocks and outlined the steps necessary to adapt a V8 Bellhousing to it. While Mike's adaptation is for a C4, this should also work for an AOD or a 5.0 T-5 bellhousing.

The statement above is archive info that Taint so when taken in isolation....this is because high mount blocks continued for manuals and the common French C3 auto's.

To get it in context, you have to read the whole megillah. Or your info is a pretext. That's why I'm a nutter for whole info, as with Fords, its the info you don't have that roundhouse punches you.


You don't ever want to be making a low mount block a T5 manual, or you'll have to redrill the six flywheel bolts from a 3 " pitch center spacing down to a 2.75" spacing, the bell housing top bolts, and zero blance the flywheel, and then you'll be info for a lot of extra money. And the six SBF bolts are clocked so you don't put the flywheel on wrong. The six has the same clocking, and it just gets real akward, real quick.



The good thing here is that were only trying to get some extra help for a T5 conversion, and setting the record straight requires all most a whole recital. There isn't really a philosphy of Ford in 50 pages any more than there is for any other subject.

With respect to 3.3 Low mount blocks, Ford found it easier to recast an interim item to integrate it into a dynamic, vibrant, shifting production line, and the information complication is only because of the very smart, and clever people at Ford who can, and do, make 11 th hour changes to fit in with the needs of the millions of 20 thousand part automobiles kicked out each year...


The low mount block was a production line solution or change to help Mercury and Ford long wheel base 105.5 and 108.4" Foxes get a 3.3 option without having to screw up the production line. Lots of XR7's and T birds got the 3.3 option. It existed so the stock V8 automatic gearboxes could be bolted up when the production schedules couldn't get V8's. Ford for soe reason cut back/curtailed 4.2 and 5.0 production to meet the CAFE 22.5 mpg average, so they made the default engie the 3.3 with a V8 trans in crap loads of Cougars, XR7's, T birds and some Fairmonts, Zepyhrs and 1981 was an odd year.


The crap dolled out to the so called under powered 1980 to 1982 18 second approx 115 hp 4.2 liter V8 is nothing compared to a lumbering 91 hp 3.3 auto dragging a lock up clutch auto Fox body around at 20 seconds between the 1/4 mile.

Anyway, from 1979 to 1981, Ford were planning to kill off the 5.0 by 1985, and Iran and Opec's supply impacts then forced Detriot to add the low mount 3.3's so ease up the supply. Even cross flow Honda aluminum heads and Mazda/Datsun Jatco 3 and 4 speed automatics based on the Ford Courier and Monarch 250 gearbox were contemplated for the US 3.3 1980 according to Edsel Ford II in a 1980 interview. Ford were dialing up the block changes just like a Japanese production line for the 1981 model year.


So you'll find people like blake4591 and Lincs 200 have used low mount blocks as either boat anchors or 13.5 second drag machines, but always as automtiacs

https://fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f=...9022&view=next

[Redfairymont]

The car is a 81 fox granada

[xctasy]

Four fairly easy checks, Redfairymont


Please note well. All the critical block photos I've seen have had the big bell blocks repainted red, grey or blue or black so they look good and glossy.

Bare that in mind.

They swap D8 heads onto 1981 big bell blocks



Repaint grey blocks black and red




or repaint the blocks and heads blue






The red and black engine was born grey, the blue low mount was born grey, repainted blue. So was Mikes blue painted Classic Inlines big bell redrill feature enigine.

When first produced for 1981, 1982, and 1983, they were color coded the engines. None were unpainted.



Question 1.

Blue engine with blue rocker cover and an id no

OR

Grey engine and rocker cover with another number?.

What color rocker cover, what engine id code.


If its grey, its low mount.

If its blue, high mount

Question 2.

The block will still be D8 BE 6015 xx for early 1981,
then they went to E1 BE 6015 xx for all high mounts

E1 BB 6015 for all low mounts.

Is it a, b or c?

Question 3.

Check your door tag...it will have a BV code for trans if its a C3, which automatically makes it a high mount 3.3

C4 or the lock-up clutch C5, had another code. The 1981's still had a non lock-up clutch C4 3.3 option, which is high mount.

The low mounts had a big bell lock-up clutch C4 or C5.

Question 4. Is the starter like the red rocker, black block engine?

Or the grey engine like blake4591 or Lincs200

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthre...cougar-project

Yeah the Inline is the low mount gray CJ232 motor. I'm assuming it is a C5 since it looks the same as a C4 but is the same length as a T5 and it is a 7.5" 2.73 ratio diff.

I've read over that thread https://fordsix.com//viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24859



before and was close to putting a turbo on it but decided not to bother with the old inline mostly because I hated the automatic (WOT shifts where 3900 rpm)

I'm planning on keeping the bench for now test of the trans looks like there is enough room at least.

Or is it like Brian Timothy Doyon or my enigine, and blue and high mount?

[xctasy]

And No 5 CHECK.

Buck Code Details



BV A H JPN
L P U 1B
15R 99D

French Bordeux C3 "BV" code trans


Always a blue, high mount engine block, without exceptions

[E2ZZGLX]

The link to Fordsix is a good one and can be applied to a 2.8 swap also. I did this to an SROD bell for a T5 swap planed for my 82 a couple years back (machine shop cost about $100 at the time) and mated it with a T5 from a 88 2.3 car. Never completed due to life getting in the way...not sure what trans would be best behind a 200, 2.3 or 5.0 due to ratios. The most difficult part here was trying to find a 200 SROD car for the bell/flywheel/etc...82 GLX was high mount and I personally have never seen a low mount in a Fox just maybe I'm not paying attention.

[xctasy]

The car is a 81 fox granada

Okay, Redfairymont, based on the information, do you think its a low mount or high mount block.

There is a way to run the T5 with low mount, its just not really easy because you have to

1. buy a neutral balance, or have a shop neutral balance a 28 oz or 50 oz Mustang 5.0 flywheel,

2. then redrill/narrow the six bolts for the flywheel to suit the 2.75" pitch as opposed to the stock 3" pitch for the 5.0, and then

3. redrill the top two holes of the Mustang 5.0 bellhousing to suit the low mount 2/3rd V8 bellhousing pattern.


So you can do it if its low mount, just not easily. The factory chose to use the low mount block only for automatics, but you can do it if you want to.


See https://fordsix.com//viewtopic.php?t=38301&highlight=


Terry is a very good mechanic from Kansas.

Yes,the T5 is a V8 unit. I've been shifting about 2500 rpm just cruising around.....drops the rpm to just under 2000 after the shift and the car loves it. I drove about 50 miles this morning and still am amazed how well it pulls 5th gear at 1600- 1900 rpm. The final drive ratio in 5th is 1.89!
My block is from an '82 Capri,but I didn't pull it out. It was swapped out in favor of a 302 by the Capri's owner and I bought the complete engine from him.I needed it so I could run the V8 T5 bell and clutch with the T5 trans and it's working very well. It's just a blast to drive now!

Terry

https://fordsix.com//viewtopic.php?f=10&t=41691

Good advice you're getting here Falconizer. And I might add...you're an ambitious fellow. The 250 flywheel Dennis mentioned is rare-but you can (on ebay) buy a NEW neutral-balanced 157 tooth flywheel for a 5.0 Mustang for under $100 shipped....and it bolts directly to the 250,uses the stock 5.0/T5 bellhousing and 10.5" clutch and works like a charm. Convert the clutch pedal to use a cable from a late 5.0 Mustang and you won't believe how nice the clutch is (and STRONG!) I'm running this setup on my Falcon and love it.
The ebay seller's name is "racingman" and he's in CA.

Terry

Just a note, since we are all learning here,

Some cars had E0BB castings for low mount blocks, which confirms 1980 not 1981 as the first year for low mount 3.3's.


Not that Terry's car had an E0BB casting in a 1982 Mercury Capri. So they may have been precast, and laid up inventory, who knows.

[Redfairymont]

Hey thanks for all your help. I've been busy with work.. I'm heading to my shop this weekend and I will take some pictures and look at all the info you provided

[xctasy]

Its all good. You'll find it hard to check all those things, but one or too details will help you out.

I've been around these little babies a l-o-n-g time, and you'll get the right prescription Rx from what info I ve given.

Engine and trans swaps

engine id tag and rocker cover swaps



Bock and head repaints or swaps

Buck frame horns almost impossiable to access

Buck code tags in oddball places depending on plant

door post tags gone or overpainted due to K mart rash and fender benders...

Block Id hidden by football catayst and high mount starter





Head casting hidden by automatic transmission kickdown bracket...