Exploring Options For A Budget Engine Build on 84 GT 5.0

[homer302]

LOL.^^^^^ They may have missed his budget but for sure you missed that he has EFI now and post #1 is over a year old. And also he said he doesn't just want to do a stock rebuild. He wants better than stock performance. So a simple gasket set will in no way enhance performance, though your part about it costing less than $1500 is on point.

[homer302]

As mentioned above, it's just simply hard to beat the Edelbrock heads. You want the smaller-valve Edelbock heads for sure though. Part numbers have changed over the years but bigger is not better if you are sticking with stock everything else. They used to be called "Performer" and the larger valve heads were "Performer RPM" I believe. Those just out of the box stock and a mild flat tappet cam would be an impressive gain over what you have. They can be found used for a good price for sale by people moving up to something racier. They have made them over a decade so I am certain used sets can be found cheap. They were only $950 brand new 10 years ago for heavens sake. I would probably just stick with the OEM stamped rockers at this power level. The RPM range we are talking about ends at @5,000 so those will suffice just fine. Roller rockers at 5,000 rpms are not even worth 5HP. Have the block professionally steam cleaned and honed and you should be fine. I have done many back in the day and I had the block cleaned, prepped, decked etc. and the bearings and freeze plugs installed and I took it from there. I was always able to re-use the stock pistons (another reason to have the block checked professionally) and just run a groove cleaner through the ring grooves and put in new rings. Back then we didn't have a dyno to verify.

[erratic50]

I would source 87-93 forged pistons and other "stock" parts from a rebuild kit. Order without cam.

You might be able to get a stroker kit if you watch for a good buy but I wouldn't go bigger than 331 on a street motor as the stroke gets too long for RPM from a physics perspective.

I'd shoot for 6500 as that's what many good carb style intakes are rated to. Edelbrock performer is what I suggest.

If you plan to drive it a lot, I'd get a roller retrofit cam (from comp, etc) or at least switch to 351W firing order. Less friction, more power.

procomp AL heads are cheap. Used Edelbrock or AFR would be better. Ported E7 are decent, but usually not worth the $$ to get them installable.

On heads go Small chamber - shoot for 10.5:1-12:1 compression as this will work with 91-93 octane or E85.

roller rockers are a no brainer, but I would not worry about AL vs steel. Steel works great and fits factory valve covers.

pushrods I'd go with about the strongest I could find- deflection kills performance. I'd shim the lifters to according to the articles or buy a short stroke set or plan on running high oil pressure. Build the bottom end at max tolerance or within 0.001, plastigauge everything.

could alway put the original block on a stand and buy a reman shortblock and go from there.

I would definitely go with headers. Equal shorties is my opinion - others swear by longtube but the above build should have plenty of low end torque with your EFI.

[BTD]

Heads 1000 bucks. Forget tools an engine stand bolts etc, that's 1000 of 1500 gone already, and you still don't have rockers etc. I saw he had efi, he wanted more power, you add a carb. Keep pitching for millionaires though. I'm trying to prepare him for reality

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[wraithracing]

Forget the High Volume Oil Pump. There is no need in a stock 5.0 or even most strokers on the street. Besides without extra volume in the pan to compensate you only run the risk of running the pan dry at higher RPMs

A good stock oil pump will do the trick and save you $$

[erratic50]

Heads $800 - http://m.ebay.com/itm/Flo-Tek-203505...-/131483374036
Rockers - $90 - http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Small-...kaAsE0EALw_wcB

New kit with forged pistons - $560


Lightly used but nice heads can be had for $500- I know because that's what I have in my Edelbrock that were poorly listed on eBay.

Cheapest way to get forged pistons is to watch craigslist. Motors with them in it or the rotating assemblies come up for $100-300 frequently. Then a basic cam bearings/rings/rods/mains/gaskets/oil pump "rearing" kit can be used - just spring for chrome rings.

Add misc stuff like a cam and intake and you're in business. I'd spring for a roller setup as every flat rapper cam I've ever had went flat in not much time even with using good oil, etc.

[84StangSVT]

Heads 1000 bucks. Forget tools an engine stand bolts etc, that's 1000 of 1500 gone already, and you still don't have rockers etc. I saw he had efi, he wanted more power, you add a carb. Keep pitching for millionaires though. I'm trying to prepare him for reality

Tools are of no issue, I have 98% of everything already to do the job already. All I need is an engine stand and a couple odd and end tools that may pop up. I didn't add the cost of the tools, as well as what I refer to as expendables (seals, gaskets, loctite, so forth) into the budgetary # first posted as I wanted that # to cover heads, cam, intake etc.

While carb may be the ultimate way to go in regards to huge HP #'s, the EFI system I have is good to 650 horsepower which is further than I ever plan to take this particular car.

I fully understand the reality of what it takes and costs to make horsepower. My goals are realistic for this.....a small budget equals small gains, but anything is better than 175 hp which is probably lower than that beings the car has over 250,000 miles.

I am simply looking for ideas on what I can do to make it even more fun to drive while still retaining reliability for D.D. duties, if I ever choose to D.D. this car during the summer months.

[erratic50]

To be clear, I did not say high volume - I said I'd crank up the oil pressure. Stretched or stronger bypass spring is what I was getting at. This keeps the lifters pumped up.

[wraithracing]

To be clear, I did not say high volume - I said I'd crank up the oil pressure. Stretched or stronger bypass spring is what I was getting at. This keeps the lifters pumped up.

My post was in response to BTD's not yours.

[erratic50]

Oic. Lol

[84StangSVT]

Heads, cam, oil pump and gaskets. Maybe some rockers, pistons and pushrods.

Thanks guys! This has been informative.

I will look around for some of the suggestions posted above and see what I come up with.

[homer302]

I would source 87-93 forged pistons and other "stock" parts from a rebuild kit.....

If you plan to drive it a lot, I'd get a roller retrofit cam (from comp, etc) or at least switch to 351W firing order.

All 1982-1991 HO motors had the 351 firing order and also had forged pistons OEM. SOME 1992 engines had forged and some didn't. They switched to Hyper pistons at that time and beyond. Perhaps you know the specs for the engine in this particular car and know that it does not have those parts, which is fine. Just clearing up confusion if that is not the case.
1985 was the first roller cam and sort of headers
1986 was the first multi-port SEFI and true dual exhaust but had poor flowing heads
1987 was the same as 1986 only they essentially reverted to the 1985 head DESIGN. (but yes the part number is different than 85).

[homer302]

Forget the High Volume Oil Pump. There is no need in a stock 5.0 or even most strokers on the street. Besides without extra volume in the pan to compensate you only run the risk of running the pan dry at higher RPMs

A good stock oil pump will do the trick and save you $$

This. The stock oil pump works fine and lasts a Beggiallion miles.

[homer302]

Heads 1000 bucks. Forget tools an engine stand bolts etc, that's 1000 of 1500 gone already, and you still don't have rockers etc. I saw he had efi, he wanted more power, you add a carb. Keep pitching for millionaires though. I'm trying to prepare him for reality

Sent from my F8131 using Tapatalk

You have heard of eBay and Craigslist I assume? Well, you can actually buy good used parts there if you are sharp and watch what you are doing. You are not required to buy them new. Edelbrock heads have been out more than 10 years. Some people would say that's an entire decade. I am not sure why anyone would pay $1,000 for them new when there are so many sets available on the used parts marketplace.

[erratic50]

Years above having forged - no basis for being able to disagree but it is a new one to me. I've read lots of differences in opinion on what years had forged pistons in all the years I've been paying attention. The crew here is definitely the ones to set the record straight.

I was not not aware of any forged piston use in 82. I've worked on an 83 that didn't have forged but it was blown early in life and was messed with during a budget longblock "for an 83 mustang ho" previously. So maybe the reman builder cheaped out.

Many of the rebuild kits I've looked at do not offer a forged/chrome option until kits for either the 85, 86, or 87+ model years. I guess these factors together caused me to assume forged pistons were an 85+ thing.

Maybe its just laziness since 85 is when the roller cams showed up and a "stock" 86+ grind for EFI runs just fine in carbed apps like the 85. Dunno!

I've always loved this site's spirit of giving exactly correct and precise information.

[slow84lx]

All 1982-1991 HO motors had the 351 firing order and also had forged pistons OEM. SOME 1992 Just clearing up confusion if that is not the case.
1985 was the first roller cam and sort of headers

1985 was a year of many firsts for the Ford Mustang. It was the year that forged pistons debuted in the Mustang, not earlier.

[homer302]

1985 was a year of many firsts for the Ford Mustang. It was the year that forged pistons debuted in the Mustang, not earlier.

Sorry, yep, that was wrong. Typing faster than I was thinking. It was not '87 though it was '85 as you stated.

Mainly posting so the spammer idiot is not on top until the mods remove him

[Walking-Tall]

Windage tray... +10-15 HP...



https://www.summitracing.com/int/par...2212/overview/

[droopie85gt]

Corral.net. If you shop carefully there and craigslist and other sites. You can save a ton of money.

[erratic50]

I mentioned 87 because the 86's don't have valve reliefs. I couldn't remember on the 85's - I think they do.... But was just easier to say 87+ forged than dance around the topic.

Forget it - throw in a 351W based stroker with Cleveland heads and adapter plates and a nice 302 intake. Giant cam, etc. while we're couch racing it should make north of 625HP. Should be "enough". Lol.

[bwguardian]

I tore down several 82 and 83 Mustang GT engines back in the day. Those had cast flat top with 4 valve relief pistons. The 85 engine was the same piston design except forged. Then 86 was a true flat top with no valve reliefs forged slug. In 87 it stayed a 4 valve relief forged piston, except it was dished in the center of the piston worth about 4cc's. IMHO, the 85 is the year to have...

[droopie85gt]

Hell I'll be selling at least the shortblock out of mine when I swap to the 351. I'll probably keep the heads. Or I might just sell it all together and buy some other heads. I pretty much only need a flywheel and gaskets to put the 351 in. It's a stout engine, but I am sure it needs balancing. The PO hogged out the valve reliefs to put a bigger cam in. Between 4200-5000 it's got a decent vibration. BUT, I bought the balancer and flywheel used, so who knows one of them could be 28oz. I know the balancer is a POS.

[erratic50]

Good point on the dishing- hadn't remembered that.